Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 73

Thread: Does Norfolk Police Academy Teach That CHP holders MUST carry concealed?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    18

    Post imported post

    Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

    A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

    He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

    Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    sailer wrote:
    Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

    A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that if he had a CHP OCing was illegal.

    He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer and asked him if that were true.

    The NPD officer told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

    Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?
    We've come across this idiot logic before. One of the Manassas police told the Tony's 7 something to the effect that CHP=concealed only.

    If no one can answer up for sure, send a FOIA to the police academy for the training materials that cover this point, including instructors' notes, if any.

    Of course, its an idiot statement from a 4th Amendment perspective, too. Since OC is legal, the officer will have no reasonable suspicion to justify a detention to check if you have a CHP in order to find out if you're violating this made-up law.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    721

    Post imported post

    I had a hampton officer tell me the same thing a few years back. I later saw him on the news as part of a homeland security task force with the HPD.:what:

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA, ,
    Posts
    385

    Post imported post

    sailer wrote:
    Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

    A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

    He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

    Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?
    I'm guessing you were shooting at Superior Arms in Virginia Beach then. I had one of the staff come to me after I finished teaching the CHP class and asked me about that topic. If we're talking about the same guy, the even actually happened on MLK day (i.e. February), well before the issues we dealt with this summer.

    I would hope that they've been straightened out on that by now. But, in case they haven't, I think I'll be heading to Norfolk with my family tomorrow. My Glock has been looking like it needs a little sunlight.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    82

    Post imported post

    sailer wrote:
    Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

    A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

    He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

    Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?
    A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits".

    I thought I was the only one to hear that line of B.S. , LOL.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits".
    Well, all you guys with these stories ought to be able to pull our your file on these LEOs where you keeop all teh correspondence you have had with the LEO's Police chief on the matter, and the record of the matter being cleared up, right?

    Unless you do this, these myths will persist.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    82

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits".
    Well, all you guys with these stories ought to be able to pull our your file on these LEOs where you keeop all teh correspondence you have had with the LEO's Police chief on the matter, and the record of the matter being cleared up, right?

    Unless you do this, these myths will persist.
    Actually Mike you are not the only one in the Commonwealth that writes letters, files complaints and pursues these matters when theyoccur and EVER time they do. The State of Virginia still hasn't responded to my letter, when they do I will post it. Many do nothing the first time as they wrongly assume it's an isolated thing, just one officer. Then one day it happens again and the word processor is humming.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, , USA
    Posts
    883

    Post imported post

    sailer wrote:
    Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

    A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

    He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

    Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?
    We have a VCDL table at every gun show in the Norfolk Scope, and many Norfolk and State Police are also in attendance -we have never had anything but positive conversation with these individuals. I will checkthis out at our nextNorfolk show.

  9. #9
    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits".

    Following that logic: Then a person with a CHP could not enter a restaurant serving alcohol. For if he open carried, and had a CHP, he'd be in violation, (of this errant Trooper's "law")and if he concealed he'd be in violation (of state Statute.)





  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    152

    Post imported post

    Using their LEO logic then, I have fewer gun rights as a CHP holder than I do as a citizen open carrying. document.write('[img]/images/emoticons/question.gif[/img]');[img]images/emoticons/question.gif[/img] [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/SHARON%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/SHARON%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/img]

  11. #11
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Post imported post

    mlands wrote:
    Using their LEO logic then, I have fewer gun rights as a CHP holder than I do as a citizen open carrying. document.write('[img]/images/emoticons/question.gif[/img]');[img]images/emoticons/question.gif[/img] [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/SHARON%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/SHARON%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/img]
    In DC, there are more penalties for Concealed Carry Permit holders - if there are any - than people without a CCW type permit.

    I don't remember where I found it, but I remember thinking it was unbelievable.

  12. #12
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  13. #13
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  14. #14
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Post imported post

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.

    The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    possumboy wrote:
    SNIP I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.
    Also, "Article 1 Section XIII Virginia Constitution." "The one you swore to uphold, Officer."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,244

    Post imported post

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    I've had the same experience. Saying "I was wrong" is antithetical to LEO DNA.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    possumboy wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.

    The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.
    I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

    So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.

  18. #18
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    ama-gi wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    ...Saying "I was wrong" is antithetical to LEO DNA.

    This is hardly limited to LEOs. I really can't think of any major professions where a LOT of this reluctance/incapacity to admit error isn't in place. It's always a problem.

    Heck, we see it here in the arguments and positions that a lot of people make and take. When such people are found to be wrong, they just drop the issue. For example, no one could ever admit that barging into the first MMM meeting as OCing representatives of VCDL and OCDO was a mistake.

    I don't think I've ever heard an anti say "I was wrong." Same goes for pro-gunners.

  19. #19
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

    So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully

    bul·ly1 /ˈbʊli/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]l[/b]-ee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
    1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
    6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
    7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

    If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
    So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.


  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    I had a herndon cop come into Blue Ridge about 3 weeks ago he told me it was a crime to not notify police in VA that you were carrying a gun. My response man your department must have a lot of insurance money.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,244

    Post imported post

    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    I had a herndon cop come into Blue Ridge about 3 weeks ago he told me it was a crime to not notify police in VA that you were carrying a gun. My response man your department must have a lot of insurance money.
    :P

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    ama-gi wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!
    ...Saying "I was wrong" is antithetical to LEO DNA.

    This is hardly limited to LEOs. I really can't think of any major professions where a LOT of this reluctance/incapacity to admit error isn't in place. It's always a problem.

    Heck, we see it here in the arguments and positions that a lot of people make and take. When such people are found to be wrong, they just drop the issue. For example, no one could ever admit that barging into the first MMM meeting as OCing representatives of VCDL and OCDO was a mistake.

    I don't think I've ever heard an anti say "I was wrong." Same goes for pro-gunners.
    Going to agree with Hank...

    NOBODY wants to admit they were wrong about something. This is not limited to cops. It is a human thing and not a cop thing.

    Why admit to being wrong when there may be room for doubt.

    Innocent till proved guilty... of being dumb.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    possumboy wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

    So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully

    bul·ly1 /ˈbʊli/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]l[/b]-ee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
    1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
    6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
    7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

    If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
    So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.

    Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.

    Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.

    Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse than talking.

    It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    possumboy wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

    So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully

    bul·ly1 /ˈbʊli/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]l[/b]-ee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
    1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
    6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
    7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

    If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
    So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.

    Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.

    Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.

    Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse that talking.

    It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.
    What? Cops lie to people because criminals lie to cops. Did you mean to compare people to criminals or cops to criminals?

    There is a big difference between ignorance and/or an honest mistake on one hand and intentional deception by those given a public trust on the other hand.

    Acop that lies to "people" does a great deal of damage to his/her credibility and to the reputation of his/her department, and to the community. Hopefully those police that try todeprive honestcitizens civil rights (including 2A) by deception and coercionare booted from the department without a pension.

    Know the law, be respectful and don't forget to use your recorder. Police departments will learn over time that unwarranted harassment of OCers will be painful and costly.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Thundar wrote:
    What? Cops lie to people because criminals lie to cops. Did you mean to compare people to criminals or cops to criminals?

    There is a big difference between ignorance and/or an honest mistake on one hand and intentional deception by those given a public trust on the other hand.

    Acop that lies to "people" does a great deal of damage to his/her credibility and to the reputation of his/her department, and to the community. Hopefully those police that try todeprive honestcitizens civil rights (including 2A) by deception and coercionare booted from the department without a pension.

    Know the law, be respectful and don't forget to use your recorder. Police departments will learn over time that unwarranted harassment of OCers will be painful and costly.
    There is no need to lie to the average citizen. Not all people are criminals and not all lies are said to criminals.

    But for those few that you need to do something or just get them out of your hair... You might lie and say they could be arrested if they do not leave.

    Keeping in mind... it is not against ANY law to say that. It is another matter to actually arrested someone for something that is NOT a crime. And then... maybe it IS a crime to stay!! So if you want to push the issue and test the officer.. feel free..



    § 46.2-902. Leaving scene of accident when directed to do so by officer.

    A person shall leave the scene of a traffic accident when directed to do so by a law-enforcement officer.




Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •