Does Norfolk Police Academy Teach That CHP holders MUST carry concealed?

sailer · Nov 20, 2007

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Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

Citizen · Nov 20, 2007

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sailer wrote:

Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that if he had a CHP OCing was illegal.

He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer and asked him if that were true.

The NPD officer told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

We've come across this idiot logic before. One of the Manassas police told the Tony's 7 something to the effect that CHP=concealed only.

If no one can answer up for sure, send a FOIA to the police academy for the training materials that cover this point, including instructors' notes, if any.

Of course, its an idiot statement from a 4th Amendment perspective, too. Since OC is legal, the officer will have no reasonable suspicion to justify a detention to check if you have a CHP in order to find out if you're violating this made-up law.

kimbercarrier · Nov 20, 2007

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I had a hampton officer tell me the same thing a few years back. I later saw him on the news as part of a homeland security task force with the HPD.:what:

vtme_grad98 · Nov 20, 2007

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sailer wrote:

Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

I'm guessing you were shooting at Superior Arms in Virginia Beach then. I had one of the staff come to me after I finished teaching the CHP class and asked me about that topic. If we're talking about the same guy, the even actually happened on MLK day (i.e. February), well before the issues we dealt with this summer.

I would hope that they've been straightened out on that by now. But, in case they haven't, I think I'll be heading to Norfolk with my family tomorrow. My Glock has been looking like it needs a little sunlight.

just a guy with a Glock · Nov 21, 2007

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sailer wrote:

Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits". :banghead:

I thought I was the only one to hear that line of B.S. , LOL.

Mike · Nov 21, 2007

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just a guy, with a Glock wrote:

A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits". :banghead:

Well, all you guys with these stories ought to be able to pull our your file on these LEOs where you keeop all teh correspondence you have had with the LEO's Police chief on the matter, and the record of the matter being cleared up, right?

Unless you do this, these myths will persist.

just a guy with a Glock · Nov 21, 2007

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Mike wrote:

just a guy, with a Glock wrote:

A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits". :banghead:

Click to expand...

Well, all you guys with these stories ought to be able to pull our your file on these LEOs where you keeop all teh correspondence you have had with the LEO's Police chief on the matter, and the record of the matter being cleared up, right?

Unless you do this, these myths will persist.

Actually Mike you are not the only one in the Commonwealth that writes letters, files complaints and pursues these matters when theyoccur and EVER time they do. The State of Virginia still hasn't responded to my letter, when they do I will post it. Many do nothing the first time as they wrongly assume it's an isolated thing, just one officer. Then one day it happens again and the word processor is humming.

Bubba Ron · Nov 22, 2007

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sailer wrote:

Interesting conversation at the range tonight.

A gentleman there was harassed while OCing; Norfolk officers told him that OC was illegal for CHP holders.

He said he later met a plainclothes Norfolk PD officer who told him that's what Norfolk Police Academy teaches.

Amazing, if true. Anyone else heard of this?

We have a VCDL table at every gun show in the Norfolk Scope, and many Norfolk and State Police are also in attendance -we have never had anything but positive conversation with these individuals. I will checkthis out at our nextNorfolk show.

doug23838 · Nov 22, 2007

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just a guy, with a Glock wrote:

A Virginia State Trooper told me the same thing ! "If you have a CHP it must be carried concealed. Open carry is just for those without permits". :banghead:

Following that logic: Then a person with a CHP could not enter a restaurant serving alcohol. For if he open carried, and had a CHP, he'd be in violation, (of this errant Trooper's "law")and if he concealed he'd be in violation (of state Statute.)

:banghead::banghead:

mlands · Nov 22, 2007

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Using their LEO logic then, I have fewer gun rights as a CHP holder than I do as a citizen open carrying. document.write('/images/emoticons/question.gif');

possumboy · Nov 22, 2007

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mlands wrote:

Using their LEO logic then, I have fewer gun rights as a CHP holder than I do as a citizen open carrying. document.write('/images/emoticons/question.gif');

In DC, there are more penalties for Concealed Carry Permit holders - if there are any - than people without a CCW type permit.

I don't remember where I found it, but I remember thinking it was unbelievable.

paramedic70002 · Nov 25, 2007

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Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

paramedic70002 · Nov 25, 2007

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Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

possumboy · Nov 25, 2007

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paramedic70002 wrote:

Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.

The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.

Citizen · Nov 25, 2007

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possumboy wrote:

SNIP I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.

Also, "Article 1 Section XIII Virginia Constitution." "The one you swore to uphold, Officer."

sjhipple · Nov 25, 2007

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paramedic70002 wrote:

Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

I've had the same experience. Saying "I was wrong" is antithetical to LEO DNA.

LEO 229 · Nov 25, 2007

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possumboy wrote:

paramedic70002 wrote:

Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

Click to expand...

I often have LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.

The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.

I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.

HankT · Nov 25, 2007

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ama-gi wrote:

paramedic70002 wrote:

Whenever I have an LEO tell me something that is untrue, I politely ask them to provide the relevant code section. I have actually had one call me later to tell me he couldn't find the code, but he still knew it was law!

Click to expand...

...Saying "I was wrong" is antithetical to LEO DNA.

This is hardly limited to LEOs. I really can't think of any major professions where a LOT of this reluctance/incapacity to admit error isn't in place. It's always a problem.

Heck, we see it here in the arguments and positions that a lot of people make and take. When such people are found to be wrong, they just drop the issue. For example, no one could ever admit that barging into the first MMM meeting as OCing representatives of VCDL and OCDO was a mistake.

I don't think I've ever heard an anti say "I was wrong." Same goes for pro-gunners.

possumboy · Nov 26, 2007

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LEO 229 wrote:

I do not believe it is used to "bully" anyone. It is more that the LEO was taught or told about a certain topic and he has never observed it first hand. When it comes time to find it... maybe it exists.. maybe it is so obscure it is too hard to find.

So more often than not.. it is told in good faith.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully

bul·ly1

/ˈbʊl

i/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]

l[/b]-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.

rob99vmi04 · Nov 26, 2007

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I had a herndon cop come into Blue Ridge about 3 weeks ago he told me it was a crime to not notify police in VA that you were carrying a gun. My response man your department must have a lot of insurance money.

Does Norfolk Police Academy Teach That CHP holders MUST carry concealed?

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