sjhipple
Regular Member
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rob99vmi04 wrote:
rob99vmi04 wrote:
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Does Norfolk Police Academy Teach That CHP holders MUST carry concealed?
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HankT wrote:
NOBODY wants to admit they were wrong about something. This is not limited to cops. It is a human thing and not a cop thing.
Why admit to being wrong when there may be room for doubt. :lol:
Innocent till proved guilty... of being dumb.
HankT wrote:
Going to agree with Hank...
NOBODY wants to admit they were wrong about something. This is not limited to cops. It is a human thing and not a cop thing.
Why admit to being wrong when there may be room for doubt. :lol:
Innocent till proved guilty... of being dumb.
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possumboy wrote:
Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.
Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.
Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse than talking.
It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.
possumboy wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully
bul·ly1
/ˈbʊl
i/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]l[/b]-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.
If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.
Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.
Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.
Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse than talking.
It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.
Thundar
Regular Member
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LEO 229 wrote:
What? Cops lie to people because criminals lie to cops. Did you mean to compare people to criminals or cops to criminals?:uhoh:
There is a big difference between ignorance and/or an honest mistake on one hand and intentional deception by those given a public trust on the other hand.
Acop that lies to "people" does a great deal of damage to his/her credibility and to the reputation of his/her department, and to the community. Hopefully those police that try todeprive honestcitizens civil rights (including 2A) by deception and coercionare booted from the department without a pension.
Know the law, be respectful and don't forget to use your recorder. Police departments will learn over time that unwarranted harassment of OCers will be painful and costly.
LEO 229 wrote:
possumboy wrote:LEO 229 wrote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully
bul·ly1i/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[boo[/i]l[/b]-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
6. to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
7. to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.
If LEOs do notunderstand the basic concept that there has to be a law against something for it to be illegal, then there is a failure in the training of the force.
So, it is either poor training (even if the question is in good faith)or bullying.
Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.
Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.
Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse that talking.
It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.
What? Cops lie to people because criminals lie to cops. Did you mean to compare people to criminals or cops to criminals?:uhoh:
There is a big difference between ignorance and/or an honest mistake on one hand and intentional deception by those given a public trust on the other hand.
Acop that lies to "people" does a great deal of damage to his/her credibility and to the reputation of his/her department, and to the community. Hopefully those police that try todeprive honestcitizens civil rights (including 2A) by deception and coercionare booted from the department without a pension.
Know the law, be respectful and don't forget to use your recorder. Police departments will learn over time that unwarranted harassment of OCers will be painful and costly.
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Thundar wrote:
But for those few that you need to do something or just get them out of your hair... You might lie and say they could be arrested if they do not leave.
Keeping in mind... it is not against ANY law to say that. It is another matter to actually arrested someone for something that is NOT a crime. And then... maybe it IS a crime to stay!! So if you want to push the issue and test the officer.. feel free..
§ 46.2-902. Leaving scene of accident when directed to do so by officer.
A person shall leave the scene of a traffic accident when directed to do so by a law-enforcement officer.
Thundar wrote:
There is no need to lie to the average citizen. Not all people are criminals and not all lies are said to criminals.
But for those few that you need to do something or just get them out of your hair...
You might lie and say they could be arrested if they do not leave.Keeping in mind... it is not against ANY law to say that. It is another matter to actually arrested someone for something that is NOT a crime. And then... maybe it IS a crime to stay!! So if you want to push the issue and test the officer.. feel free..
§ 46.2-902. Leaving scene of accident when directed to do so by officer.
A person shall leave the scene of a traffic accident when directed to do so by a law-enforcement officer.
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That, like most things, is debatable....but assuming that is correct, it does make the Officer look stupid. An Officer that makes a habit of telling people they can be arrested, when in fact they cannot....Might just as well have a "Kick Me" sign on his back.
Remember that vest is not much protection, Your real protection is in the respect for the office we should have. That respect is quickly dwindling though, because it's hard to respect someone who is thought of as "A dumb Bastard"
That, like most things, is debatable....but assuming that is correct, it does make the Officer look stupid. An Officer that makes a habit of telling people they can be arrested, when in fact they cannot....Might just as well have a "Kick Me" sign on his back.
Remember that vest is not much protection, Your real protection is in the respect for the office we should have. That respect is quickly dwindling though, because it's hard to respect someone who is thought of as "A dumb Bastard"
possumboy
Regular Member
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Thundar wrote:
Thundar wrote:
It is another bagels to donuts comparison here.
Bubba Ron
Regular Member
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possumboy wrote:
possumboy wrote:
Thundar didn't write the quote above, LEO229 wrote it.
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Something to point out is that this type of activity does not happen as often as one might think.
Just like when a citizen is an a-hole to a cop for no reason. He too looks like a dumb bastard.
Cops can lie at times....
You may not like the tactic but it can be useful.
Something to point out is that this type of activity does not happen as often as one might think.
Just like when a citizen is an a-hole to a cop for no reason. He too looks like a dumb bastard.
Cops can lie at times....
You may not like the tactic but it can be useful.
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Your right and as usual, it doesn't have much to do with the subject of this thread.....But,
It's always fun to beat that dead horse with a board and rusty nail.:lol:
Your right and as usual, it doesn't have much to do with the subject of this thread.....But,
It's always fun to beat that dead horse with a board and rusty nail.:lol:
Yeah but Citizens are supposed to be Dumb Bastards!:uhoh: JUst ask:
possumboy
Regular Member
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Bubba Ron wrote:
Bubba Ron wrote:
I know. The point is he is comparing that are not previously part of the conversation. Ccops have tactics to bully or intimidate, I can one of those examples. He is diverting the conversation away from the original point.
possumboy
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
Just a reminder...
LEO 229 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Just because a citizen excercises their rights does not make them an a-hole.
Just a reminder...
LEO 229 wrote:
So, stop whining when a citizens knows and exercises their rights.
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possumboy wrote:
Seems that some here like a-hole citizens but not bully cops.. You have to love it!
So stop bitching about cops exercising their rights to lie to citizens....
It goesboth ways. :lol:
possumboy wrote:
So what we have here is citizens appearing be be a-holes while "exercising their rights" and cops appearing to be bullies while trying to perform their jobs.
Seems that some here like a-hole citizens but not bully cops.. You have to love it!
So stop bitching about cops exercising their rights to lie to citizens....
It goesboth ways. :lol:
sjhipple
Regular Member
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LEO 229 wrote:
................................
LEO 229 wrote:
................................
possumboy
Regular Member
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LEO 229 wrote:
Not the one bitching. This started with a statement of fact. LEOs do "something". Don't care why, or even if they can legallyor not. Just something people need to watch for. LEOs will try to bully you with the question "What law makes it legal?"
You are the one that provided that it was legal for LEOs to do that. You are the one that made the comparison to criminals - in essense saying LEOs and criminals are the samebecause of that comparison.
So, let me direct. Quit "bitching" when you get called out on stuff and stop trying to twist it to make it look better for LEOs. It is something that happens. Not every time, not by every LEO, but it is something that can and does happen and only an educated citizen can be prepared for it. You have confirmed this.
Back to the original statement:
LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.
The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.
[/quote]You have support it and given reason why it is done. You have even said that "Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair." Stating that cops are just like criminals! See, I can twist things also.
LEO 229 wrote:
Not the one bitching. This started with a statement of fact. LEOs do "something". Don't care why, or even if they can legallyor not. Just something people need to watch for. LEOs will try to bully you with the question "What law makes it legal?"
You are the one that provided that it was legal for LEOs to do that. You are the one that made the comparison to criminals - in essense saying LEOs and criminals are the samebecause of that comparison.
So, let me direct. Quit "bitching" when you get called out on stuff and stop trying to twist it to make it look better for LEOs. It is something that happens. Not every time, not by every LEO, but it is something that can and does happen and only an educated citizen can be prepared for it. You have confirmed this.
Back to the original statement:
LEO's ask "What law makes it legal?" That is when I politely remind them that we have a European civil code (if there is no law against it, it is legal), instead of having to have a law to make something legal.
The "What law makes it legal?" is one of those things that LEOs use to "bully" the public around.
[/quote]You have support it and given reason why it is done. You have even said that "Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair." Stating that cops are just like criminals! See, I can twist things also.
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possumboy wrote:
Many here boast how the officer should be locked up and so forth. However... There is no law prohibiting cops from telling lies to the people.
There are only a few times a cop shall be honest:
People do not like the idea that the police can actually lie to them but then... they can lie to the police and do so every day.
But again... just like cops eating donuts and telling lies.... neither actually happens that much.
How about providing some examples of what cops say...?
possumboy wrote:
[/quote]What makes it legal? The same thing that makes OC legal. :lol:
Many here boast how the officer should be locked up and so forth. However... There is no law prohibiting cops from telling lies to the people.
There are only a few times a cop shall be honest:
- When sworn into obtain a warrant
- When sworn in to testify in court
- When making official statements to the media
- While speaking with internal affairs
People do not like the idea that the police can actually lie to them but then... they can lie to the police and do so every day.
But again... just like cops eating donuts and telling lies.... neither actually happens that much.
How about providing some examples of what cops say...?
AbNo
Regular Member
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Prime example: Being lied to by the Warner Robins PD back in 2004. They told me wanted to ask some questions about an incident someone had reported a week prior, that had occured at my house at the time. I'm not going into detail, but I was staying at a friend's house, and he.... is a dumb piece of sh:cuss: that isn't married anymore, partly because of what I saw, and walked out on.
So, as I said, they called me a week later, since I was named as living there. Seeing no reason to suspect the police would lie, I walked over to where they were, and was promptly jumped, handcuffed, stuffed in the back of a car, and unable to even speak with anyone for quite some time.
It doesn't matter if the WRPD was acting on false information, or that I was let go with all charges dropped after the people that were involed I will never get that WEEK of my life back.
It's not my fault someone decided to lie to the cops, but it's damn sure theirs that they lied to me, especially under such pretenses as requesting my help.
And that's why I do not trust ANY police department anymore.
Prime example: Being lied to by the Warner Robins PD back in 2004. They told me wanted to ask some questions about an incident someone had reported a week prior, that had occured at my house at the time. I'm not going into detail, but I was staying at a friend's house, and he.... is a dumb piece of sh:cuss: that isn't married anymore, partly because of what I saw, and walked out on.
So, as I said, they called me a week later, since I was named as living there. Seeing no reason to suspect the police would lie, I walked over to where they were, and was promptly jumped, handcuffed, stuffed in the back of a car, and unable to even speak with anyone for quite some time.
It doesn't matter if the WRPD was acting on false information, or that I was let go with all charges dropped after the people that were involed I will never get that WEEK of my life back.
It's not my fault someone decided to lie to the cops, but it's damn sure theirs that they lied to me, especially under such pretenses as requesting my help.
And that's why I do not trust ANY police department anymore.
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Nothing really wrong with that 229. You do it all the time just to lead the thread one way or the other and snap the steel trap shut whensomeone sticks their foot in it.:lol:
What I do see quite often is Cops giving incorrect information because they don't know what they're talking about (AKA "Dumb Bastard"!
I can't tell you how many Cops have told me a pocket knife with a blade over 3" is illegal.
Another favorite..."If you wear a full face helmet into a store to pay for your gas, your committing a felony. (Statute yes...case law, no)
One of Virginia Beach PD's favorites. A gun in a rack in your vehicle is Brandishing if if frightens someone.
One particularly Ignorant Hanover Deputy said "In order to OC on private property, you need the owners permission"
When I had my FFL, I had an ATF agent tell me I gave up the right to privately own firearms when I became a dealer. His thoughts were that ALL weapons had to be in THE BOOK!
I had a Secret Service agent tell me once that a letter from him was the same as a court order. He wanted a computer I had leased to a person of interest. (in that case I pulled the hard drive and tossed it in the trash and told him to send his letter to BFI)
The list goes on but it's not just cops. Lawyers are worse than Cops about giving bad information (especially if it's free)
Try to get a straight answer from the IRS and if you really feel brave, ask your insurance agent what is covered in a policy ! :banghead:
I don't see a lot of the lies that I hear about. I think a lot of people get confused about what a Cop is doing. A lot of the perceived lies are really the Cop minulipating the conversation to see if you trip up.
Nothing really wrong with that 229. You do it all the time just to lead the thread one way or the other and snap the steel trap shut whensomeone sticks their foot in it.:lol:
What I do see quite often is Cops giving incorrect information because they don't know what they're talking about (AKA "Dumb Bastard"!
I can't tell you how many Cops have told me a pocket knife with a blade over 3" is illegal.
Another favorite..."If you wear a full face helmet into a store to pay for your gas, your committing a felony. (Statute yes...case law, no)
One of Virginia Beach PD's favorites. A gun in a rack in your vehicle is Brandishing if if frightens someone.
One particularly Ignorant Hanover Deputy said "In order to OC on private property, you need the owners permission"
When I had my FFL, I had an ATF agent tell me I gave up the right to privately own firearms when I became a dealer. His thoughts were that ALL weapons had to be in THE BOOK!
I had a Secret Service agent tell me once that a letter from him was the same as a court order. He wanted a computer I had leased to a person of interest. (in that case I pulled the hard drive and tossed it in the trash and told him to send his letter to BFI)
The list goes on but it's not just cops. Lawyers are worse than Cops about giving bad information (especially if it's free)
Try to get a straight answer from the IRS and if you really feel brave, ask your insurance agent what is covered in a policy ! :banghead:
Kevin108
Regular Member
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LEO 229 wrote:
I think they had better not. If anything they should be held to a higher standard. If a cop lies on the street, why will he not lie in the court room or any other time? Nothing good can come of cops thinking they have no obligation to speak the truth.
LEO 229 wrote:
I think they had better not. If anything they should be held to a higher standard. If a cop lies on the street, why will he not lie in the court room or any other time? Nothing good can come of cops thinking they have no obligation to speak the truth.
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I am more and more disgusted with what I am hearing on this board. I have never even had a speeding ticket. The only time I have been in court was when I was rear ended by a drunk driver. So I hope I am considered a good guy. I see where it is OK for our LEO brothers, by law, to lie, destort the truth and falsely threaten the very people they are suppose to protect. I'm sorry, I forget they always know the good from the bad. They only do this when dealing with the BAD GUYS because the bad guys lie to them. Well I must say I am suprised that our LEO's are so perfect that they can spot the good and bad guys at a glance. But what I see here makes me feel like the LEO's just do as they please because they have run roughshoud over others for so long they think they are above the laws of humanity.
I expect the LEO's to be honest and forth right individuals. I expect that they be way above the criminal element that festers in our great country. I expect them to be role models to the people they serve. I expect them to be the individuals that regular citizens can trust and respect. But what I see here is the makings for an element that calls themself LEO's but in many ways aren't any better then the bad guys. I have stated getting an education on this and other boards and I have lost all respect for the people that I thought was there for us. God protect and save us for there is no other that we can put our trust in.
I am more and more disgusted with what I am hearing on this board. I have never even had a speeding ticket. The only time I have been in court was when I was rear ended by a drunk driver. So I hope I am considered a good guy. I see where it is OK for our LEO brothers, by law, to lie, destort the truth and falsely threaten the very people they are suppose to protect. I'm sorry, I forget they always know the good from the bad. They only do this when dealing with the BAD GUYS because the bad guys lie to them. Well I must say I am suprised that our LEO's are so perfect that they can spot the good and bad guys at a glance. But what I see here makes me feel like the LEO's just do as they please because they have run roughshoud over others for so long they think they are above the laws of humanity.
I expect the LEO's to be honest and forth right individuals. I expect that they be way above the criminal element that festers in our great country. I expect them to be role models to the people they serve. I expect them to be the individuals that regular citizens can trust and respect. But what I see here is the makings for an element that calls themself LEO's but in many ways aren't any better then the bad guys. I have stated getting an education on this and other boards and I have lost all respect for the people that I thought was there for us. God protect and save us for there is no other that we can put our trust in.