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Thread: Chalk One Up for the Good Guys....

  1. #1
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    Armed for safety
    November 21, 2007

    I have seen many good letters to the Daily Press regarding gun control. I have to share an experience that may change the minds of naysayers.

    On a recent evening after dark I was in the driveway placing license plates on my wife's vehicle when a young male approached me. Due to his demeanor I was intimidated somewhat. He became much more aggressive, demanding a cell phone, and I told him I did not have a phone and stood up. When he spotted my Glock .40 pistol in a holster on my right hip, he mumbled something and started to leave very quickly.

    After I called the Hampton Police, he was captured two blocks away after a short chase. An officer informed me the man had just carjacked someone a short while earlier and I just prevented myself from becoming another victim.

    More and more responsible citizens are arming themselves for protection. It appears to be putting a dent in the plans of would-be robbers.

    People should not be afraid of the person who is properly carrying a handgun; they need to be defensive against the individuals who use them in the wrong manner. I will not be a victim.

    Doug Hall [/i]

    Hampton [/i]


    I just gotta throw this in there cause I know there are some OC opponents still lurking around OCDO......So how exactly would CC have changed the outcome of this situation:what:

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    My answer to your question is that you most likely would have had to draw your weapon and possibly shoot him as he would have continued to view you as a soft target. Just my .02.

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    I agree. It is hard to calculate how many times an open carried firearm may have thwarted a potential crime. But I have seen suspicious people eye my weapon and appear frightened and "quickly" leave the scene. There is no reason to be afraid of a holstered weapon unless a person feels that it will be unholstered by THEIR actions, not mine.

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    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    Good Question! I would think that a "reasonable person" would see that as merely transitioning from CC to OC as long as you didn't put your hand on the weapon. Hence, not illegal.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    That would be brandishing (though possibly legal in this case). Our good buddy PackinInVB tried that (going from CC to OC)at lynnhaven mall when he got in a spat with some rather vocal women and 'bout got himself arrested. I'd just stick to OC then you dont have to worry about it.

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    Reverend73 wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    That would be brandishing (though possibly legal in this case). Our good buddy PackinInVB tried that (going from CC to OC)at lynnhaven mall when he got in a spat with some rather vocal women and 'bout got himself arrested. I'd just stick to OC then you dont have to worry about it.
    Didn't see that thread. Thanks for the update. I learn something new everyday. That is why this forum is so valuable.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    I would like to believe if the law got involved it would not be brandishing. However, I feel the outcome would depend on who arrived at the seen. Some may let it go depending on the circumstances ( I would ) and some may charge you. It's a roll of the dice.



    DC

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I'm a bit surprised the Daily Press even ran the letter, though it was so compelling and well-written that they probably figured it would pique interest and continue the debate. Watch for the follow up letters! Some anti-gun guy recently wrote a LTE saying he couldn't see why people carry guns, since he'd never heard of a gun being used to stop a crime (!?) He'll probably say the man could have just relied on his cell phone and 911.

    When the police draw the chalk line around victims, I"ll bet a lot are clutching a cell phone......

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I'm a bit surprised the Daily Press even ran the letter, though it was so compelling and well-written that they probably figured it would pique interest and continue the debate. Watch for the follow up letters! Some anti-gun guy recently wrote a LTE saying he couldn't see why people carry guns, since he'd never heard of a gun being used to stop a crime (!?) He'll probably say the man could have just relied on his cell phone and 911.

    When the police draw the chalk line around victims, I"ll bet a lot are clutching a cell phone......
    Little educated, uninformed, ignorant. Rarely do people want to take responsibility for researching a topic before commenting on it.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    I would bet that brandishing would not be an issue since he was on his own property. I love the fact that a silently visible weapon spoke loudly to a potential threat. telling him that this was someone not to visit an ill intentions upon.

    Nice little piece.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    If you read the VA code for brandishing, it doesn't mention anything about being on your property or off your property as far as being justified to brandish a weapon if I recall correctly. The only time you are justified to draw your firearm is when you are in fear of your life and you better damn well be able to substantiate your actions. Otherwise, things can get a little murky for you legally.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Armed for safety
    November 21, 2007

    I have seen many good letters to the Daily Press regarding gun control. I have to share an experience that may change the minds of naysayers.

    On a recent evening after dark I was in the driveway placing license plates on my wife's vehicle when a young male approached me. Due to his demeanor I was intimidated somewhat. He became much more aggressive, demanding a cell phone, and I told him I did not have a phone and stood up. When he spotted my Glock .40 pistol in a holster on my right hip, he mumbled something and started to leave very quickly.

    After I called the Hampton Police, he was captured two blocks away after a short chase. An officer informed me the man had just carjacked someone a short while earlier and I just prevented myself from becoming another victim.

    More and more responsible citizens are arming themselves for protection. It appears to be putting a dent in the plans of would-be robbers.

    People should not be afraid of the person who is properly carrying a handgun; they need to be defensive against the individuals who use them in the wrong manner. I will not be a victim.

    Doug Hall [/i]

    Hampton [/i]
    It is clear that Hall's visible gun caused the carjacker to vamoose. Score one for OC.

    I wonder if the carjacker was armed?

    Kudos to Hall, too,for picking up the phone and reporting the event. Some people make up all kinds of reasons for not reporting stuff. It's utterly amazing the reasons they come up with.

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    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    OC definitely diffused the situation here...

    However if you were CC, it still probably would have ended peacefully. If you drew on him, he not only would have left, he would have ran...

    Did they say if he had any weapons on his person. I am just wondering how you carjack someone without a weapon...

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    LRS76251 wrote:
    If you read the VA code for brandishing, it doesn't mention anything about being on your property or off your property as far as being justified to brandish a weapon if I recall correctly. The only time you are justified to draw your firearm is when you are in fear of your life and you better damn well be able to substantiate your actions. Otherwise, things can get a little murky for you legally.
    That's my understanding of brandish. You have to either have it in your hand and be swinging it all around randomly (pointing it at someone I'm sure is assault), or menace someone with it but actions or words, while in your hand or just exposed.

    If you calmly just reveal it without saying or acting meancing than I would think you would be ok.

    But I'm not a lawyer, don't know the code well and don't know case history at all......

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    LRS76251 wrote:
    If you read the VA code for brandishing, it doesn't mention anything about being on your property or off your property as far as being justified to brandish a weapon if I recall correctly. The only time you are justified to draw your firearm is when you are in fear of your life and you better damn well be able to substantiate your actions. Otherwise, things can get a little murky for you legally.
    That's my understanding of brandish. You have to either have it in your hand and be swinging it all around randomly (pointing it at someone I'm sure is assault), or menace someone with it but actions or words, while in your hand or just exposed.

    If you calmly just reveal it without saying or acting meancing than I would think you would be ok.

    But I'm not a lawyer, don't know the code well and don't know case history at all......
    Well, in the movies, you could walk out into the middle of the street in your boots and spurs and slowly pull back your overcoat to reveal your six-gun (transition from CC to OC), and the sheriff wouldn't arrest you until you pulled the gun. Those were the days (sigh).

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    Re brandishing, the oft cited "2.5 million defensive gun uses per year" are primarily successful brandishing incidents.

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    Slowhand wrote:
    Reverend73 wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    That would be brandishing (though possibly legal in this case). Our good buddy PackinInVB tried that (going from CC to OC)at lynnhaven mall when he got in a spat with some rather vocal women and 'bout got himself arrested. I'd just stick to OC then you dont have to worry about it.
    Didn't see that thread. Thanks for the update. I learn something new everyday. That is why this forum is so valuable.
    How could that be considered brandishing in any case. If you have a permit and can legally CC and you say take off your jacket as said person approches. Now you are OCing. If you have not unholstered your firearm then you cant possibly be pointing it or waiving it at anyone so your not brandishing it in anyway.

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    bruins499 wrote:
    Slowhand wrote:
    Reverend73 wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    I believe you OC'ing halted a potential problem. If you were CC'ing this whole situation could have escalated to ugly.

    DC
    Which brings up another question, which I think has been addressed in another thread sometime ago. What if you were CCing? Would it be brandishing if you felt threatened and uncovered your gun so 1) you'd be ready and 2) the aggressor would realize the stakes?
    That would be brandishing (though possibly legal in this case). Our good buddy PackinInVB tried that (going from CC to OC)at lynnhaven mall when he got in a spat with some rather vocal women and 'bout got himself arrested. I'd just stick to OC then you dont have to worry about it.
    Didn't see that thread. Thanks for the update. I learn something new everyday. That is why this forum is so valuable.
    How could that be considered brandishing in any case. If you have a permit and can legally CC and you say take off your jacket as said person approches. Now you are OCing. If you have not unholstered your firearm then you cant possibly be pointing it or waiving it at anyone so your not brandishing it in anyway.
    It's all in here:

    Incident at Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html

    This incident is an exemplar of what not to do while carrying a gun in public in VA... he did everything wrong.

    Everything.

    OK, OK, he didn't shoot her....



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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    An officer informed me the man had just carjacked someone a short while earlier and I just prevented myself from becoming another victim.
    Somebody want to explain this to Mayor Adrian Fenty? I really don't know why it's so hard to understand.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    It's all in here:

    Incident at Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html

    This incident is an exemplar of what not to do while carrying a gun in public in VA... he did everything wrong.

    Everything.

    OK, OK, he didn't shoot her....

    I'm not so sure. If someone is menacing you I don't think revealing your gun can be considered menacing too as long as they initiated it. Is there any code or case law that anyone knows of?

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    It's all in here:

    Incident at Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html

    This incident is an exemplar of what not to do while carrying a gun in public in VA... he did everything wrong.

    Everything.

    OK, OK, he didn't shoot her....

    I'm not so sure. If someone is menacing you I don't think revealing your gun can be considered menacing too as long as they initiated it. Is there any code or case law that anyone knows of?
    Are you kidding? It was a woman!

    A girl, really.

    A small girl.

    </shakes head>

  24. #24
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    It's all in here:

    Incident at Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html


    This incident is an exemplar of what not to do while carrying a gun in public in VA... he did everything wrong.

    Everything.

    OK, OK, he didn't shoot her....

    I'm not so sure. If someone is menacing you I don't think revealing your gun can be considered menacing too as long as they initiated it. Is there any code or case law that anyone knows of?
    Are you kidding? It was a woman!

    A girl, really.

    A small girl.

    </shakes head>
    Why Hank you sexist :^)! IIRC it was a very aggressive black girl and her friend. I don't really recollect her size but I assumed she was large enough to cause him concern. She got even more aggressive when he revealed his gun. Can't remember if she was assaulting/making contact with him or not.

    So lets say it was a man doing the same. Would the situation be different? Would it have been lawful for him to reveal? Say it was a big black man, Danbus without the gun :^).



  25. #25
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    HankT wrote:

    Are you kidding? It was a woman!

    A girl, really.

    A small girl.

    </shakes head>
    Why Hank you sexist :^)! IIRC it was a very aggressive black girl and her friend. I don't really recollect her size but I assumed she was large enough to cause him concern. She got even more aggressive when he revealed his gun. Can't remember if she was assaulting/making contact with him or not.
    Nah.

    It's all in the thread. It's easy to read.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html


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