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Thread: Thought I heard the last of Everett PD

  1. #1
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    Well today I was riding to work, got about halfway there and I see a Everett PD car take a right in front of me. I continued to ride and saw that he had come to a stop and was walking back toward the sidewalk on which I rode. His greeting was...

    Officer one: Hey, you work at Sams gun shop, don't you?

    Me: Yeah.

    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?

    Me: not for several weeks.

    Officer one: I am sure you have a concealed permit don't you, why don't you just carry it concealed?

    Me: I prefer to open carry especially with how cold it is, open carry allows me to zip up my vest and still have access to my gun.

    We went back and forth like this for a few minutes he kept asking me if I would just conceal it so people wouldn't get frightened and I explained several reasons why I choose to open carry.

    Officer one: You are just not getting the point I am trying to make.

    Me: It's just that your basically stopping me to complain about how I choose to get dressed in the morning.

    About this time a second officer had pulled in and approached me from behind. Officer one briefly appraised officer two on the situation.

    Officer one: People get scared when they see someone carrying a gun.

    Officer two: If someone is alarmed, then we have a problem.

    Me: NO! that is incorrect, If it WARRANTS Alarm for the SAFETY of others, THAT! is brandishing.

    Officer one: Of course, no one here is saying it is illegal, we just wanted to stop and ask if you can do us a favor and cover it up.

    Me: Why do I owe you a favor? Quite frankly for me it is a civil rights thing, This is the way I choose to carry my gun. The way I think of it a right unexercised is a right lost.

    Officer two: You are hurting your cause by what you are doing. People get scared by seeing you carrying a gun and when it comes time to vote they will make it illegal. You can only rub peoples noses in **** so long before they decide it stinks.

    Me: Well if that turns out to be the case then I will gladly conceal carry, I always follow the laws and If I am required BY LAW to do so then I will. But as it stands I carry in a manner of my choosing. My priority's are firstaccessibility second comfort and last making other people comfortable.

    Officer one: Why are you trying to make people uncomfortable?

    Me: I'm not but people get scared by everything, when was the last time you got a call from a little old lady saying she saw a black person walking down the road in baggy cloths and thought he may be up to no good?

    Officer one: Thats not the same thing.

    Me: I think it's exactly the same thing, If your dispatchers get a call like that do they send one of you out to harass the scary black guy or do they explain to the caller that the person is doing nothing illegal.

    Officer one: No, thats not there job.

    Me: What do the dispatchers say when people call about me?

    Officer one: Usually its just a man with a gun call and a description of you.

    Me: Couldn't they receive a little training in the legality of OC so you guys aren't always getting bothered with these calls.

    Officer one: I don't see that happening.

    Officer two: Well obviously you are not listening to what we are trying to say so....

    Me ( Looking at my watch) Sounds good, I got to get to workam I free to go?

    Officer one: Just, ifyou would, can I get your name so I can fill out a tiny report and I will see what can be done about this.

    I gave him my name ( first last middle initial ) and birth date and continued on my way. The entire encounter lasted about seven minutes, I started out as friendly as ever but did not back down or hesitate to forcibly argue my points and correct officer two's attempt to misrepresent the law to me. their were no people standing around watching so I saw no need to feint friendliness and made no secret of the fact that I will not be intimidated into following their wishes. I was calmer and more in control of the situation than in any of my previous encounters. It did go rather well as police encounters go but I thought I was done with the F'ing Everett police department.

  2. #2
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    The 911 dispatcher needs to get the word to tell people that OC is legal and to call back if they see any illegal behavior that warrants an emergency dispatch at great taxpayer expense.

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    Excellent reporting of the encounter, Agent 47. And you handled it really well. I think your IDing yourself was probably the right thing to do under the circumstances. Some would say you shouldn't have done that.

    I know others here have tried the I'm not going to tell you my name, officer gambit (i.e., unrequited in his Barnes& Noble stop). But I think it's usually not a good thing. It tends to make the stop more complicated for very little, ifany,benefit to the stoppee.





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    Maybe a harrassment lawsuit would catch their attention and when you win you can force some education on the department.



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    Wasn't it a Washington court case where the opinion pointed out that community caretaking and crimefighting were two different things?

    Maybe include that opinion in thenote to the Chief of Police.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    I think the're full of **** and just want to harrass you for not complying last time.
    "getting a lot of calls". but nowhere else, right? BS.

  7. #7
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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    I think the're full of **** and just want to harrass you for not complying last time.
    "getting a lot of calls". but nowhere else, right? BS.
    This is a good point. In the incident at Tony's restaurant in Manassas, one of the cops said they had gotten complaints. It turned out tobe one complaint.

    There is no reason to accept the officer's word for "a lot of calls." If Washington has open government/sunshine/freedom of information laws, it might be profitable to request copies of all the calls.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
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    Citizen wrote:
    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    I think the're full of **** and just want to harrass you for not complying last time.
    "getting a lot of calls". but nowhere else, right? BS.
    This is a good point. In the incident at Tony's restaurant in Manassas, one of the cops said they had gotten complaints. It turned out tobe one complaint.

    There is no reason to accept the officer's word for "a lot of calls." If Washington has open government/sunshine/freedom of information laws, it might be profitable to request copies of all the calls.

    How do I go about requesting all 911 call transcripts pertaining to me?


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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    I think the're full of **** and just want to harrass you for not complying last time.
    "getting a lot of calls". but nowhere else, right? BS.
    This is a good point. In the incident at Tony's restaurant in Manassas, one of the cops said they had gotten complaints. It turned out tobe one complaint.

    There is no reason to accept the officer's word for "a lot of calls." If Washington has open government/sunshine/freedom of information laws, it might be profitable to request copies of all the calls.

    How do I go about requesting all 911 call transcripts pertaining to me?

    Check if there is a formal way to make a request. In VA there isn't a required format.

    Then as best you can, remember the date, time,and location, so you can specify those in your request. You want to narrow down the search a little bit so you don't get records of somebody across town calling about kids with BB guns.

    Does Washington state gov't have a searchable database of its statutes?Also, you could Googlesunshine AND Washington state. Somejournalistic professional organizations have information on their websites. You might check to see if there are any in Washington with tips or links applicable to Washington.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
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    The way he made it sound was he wasn'tcontacting me today due to a call this morning just that they had been receiving many calls over the last several months and he saw me riding down the street this morning and took it upon himself to stop me and have a little conversation about it. It makes sense in a way because I have had several Everett PD cars drive by me over the weeks and just give a wave and keep driving. It is possible they were responding to calls with a drive-by to verify it was me.

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    The way he made it sound was he wasn'tcontacting me today due to a call this morning just that they had been receiving many calls over the last several months and he saw me riding down the street this morning and took it upon himself to stop me and have a little conversation about it. It makes sense in a way because I have had several Everett PD cars drive by me over the weeks and just give a wave and keep driving. It is possible they were responding to calls with a drive-by to verify it was me.
    I see. In this light, it seems less likely that you'll find more than a mild exaggeration on the part of the officer, if that.

    Might as well set the records request off to the side for the moment.

    Although, you have to wonder what would have happened to the poor biker if he wasn't you. The officer did ask if they've talked to you before. I'll have to remember that. "No, Officer. There must be more than one citizen exercising his God-given rights around here." Watch 'em scamper back to base to report an outbreak of OC.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
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    Well I think the stop was BS. They obviously knew who you were, it's not everyone with a barcode on thier head, and he knew you worked at Sam's. Sounds to me like he was harassing the crap out of you. Did you cath thier names by any chance?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  13. #13
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    No I didn't get any names, I was distracted by needing to get to work.

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Me: Yeah.

    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    Well, I read further after my post and saw the FOIA was already handled. You might also consider a formal complaint of harassment against the officer. Contact Internal Affairs of the Everett PD.

    Remember what we were told here on the forum... If you don't comply there may be consequences! You might be running into those consequences for having the audacity for standing up for your rights and not complying!

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    Might as well set the records request off to the side for the moment.
    My reaction to this was the exact opposite.

    Since the officer is claiming they have received multiple calls regarding you, I think it would be very reasonable to request a transcript of all 911 calls that
    are bicyclist-with-a-gun calls, starting from the date of your first EPD stop.

    At first, I was going to add "just during the times you are riding to/returning from work", but actually seeing a record of all BWAG calls during the time would be even more informative.


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    I agree, you should consider bringing this to Internal Affairs, especially if you have the names of the officers.

    You may want to make it clear, if this happens again, that harassment is being reported to IA. I'm not sure how well this would go over.

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Just, ifyou would, can I get your name so I can fill out a tiny report and I will see what can be done about this.
    That's the point in the conversation where you stop them and ask them for their names so you can make your own tiny little report (sinceit seems that EPD training bulletin #2007-06 dated March 13, 2007is being ignored by the rank and file).

    Quid pro quo.

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    Arron, you might want to Google Everett police blotter. They are a few days behind. I thought Sam's was in the county's jurisdiction? Remember when I said good bye to you I said don't get in trouble. LOL Yes you can get a tape of the dispatch (SNO PAC) you just need the time and date and money. And also the officer's report. Remember he needed your name for the mini report. Phone guy

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    No I didn't get any names, I was distracted by needing to get to work.
    Tell them you need their names,their watch/district commander's nameand report numberbecause your boss is getting tired of you being late for shift and using thelame excuse of being stopped by the Everett Police Dapartment for not breaking the law.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    Officer one: Its just that we have been getting a lot of calls about you riding along here carrying a gun. We haven't talked to you about this before have we?
    I think the're full of **** and just want to harrass you for not complying last time.
    "getting a lot of calls". but nowhere else, right? BS.
    This is a good point. In the incident at Tony's restaurant in Manassas, one of the cops said they had gotten complaints. It turned out tobe one complaint.

    There is no reason to accept the officer's word for "a lot of calls."
    If Washington has open government/sunshine/freedom of information laws, it might be profitable to request copies of all the calls.
    Agreed- in my incident the lead officer made a point of saying they got several calls, once I PRA'd the 911 tape I found it was one person who called twice It could be revealed that no one called 911 and if no report and no incident log and no 911 call has been made, the stop would mean they didnt accurately record the information or took it upon themselves to harrass an open carrier.
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    Is that the airport road range?

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    nofoa wrote:
    Is that the airport road range?
    Yes, the range / Gunshop on airport road.

    Anyway, I am thinking that the stop was an attempt to "reason" with me about my choice of carry. After-all any reasonable person would simply choose to comply with any request of an officer. I think now they realise I fall a little more into the activist category and will not be casually swayed by their drethers. They will either give up on trying to convince me to change my ways or they will redouble their efforts. I hope for their sakes they choose the former.

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    I would put in a FOIA request for the 911 tapes ASAP. It is my understanding that unless it's something very serious, they only archive them for a limited time.

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    I can tell you that the IA officer for Everett is very aggressive towards the Officers. He will not hesitate to nail one to the wall if the circumstances warrant it.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    I'm sure by now that Leroy and Betty are aware of this, right. After all, doesn't Everett PD rent the range? I'm sure Leroy would be interested in your interactions.

    Just a thought.

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