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Thread: Suspect free on bond after fatal shooting outside party

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Was Wilkerson within his rights to shoot and kill Payne under the Castle Doctrine? Maybe Payne shouldn't have attacked him with such brutal force...




    Suspect free on bond after fatal shooting outside party
    By MITRA MALEK

    Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

    Friday, November 23, 2007

    A person's right to defend his life, even in the death of another, was pushed front-and-center in a slaying case that pitted two young men in a fatal show of force.

    William Wilkerson Jr., who shot and killed Jason Payne outside a party at Polo Lakes apartments early Thursday, was released Friday on a $25,000 bond after being charged with willful homicide.

    The lawyer representing Wilkerson said that the judge's decision made sense in light of the state's recent Castle Doctrine law, which says a person can meet force with deadly force if he believes he must do so to stay alive.

    "Wilkerson acted within the bounds of the law," Mark Shiner said. "He had a right, legally, to shoot him."

    Wilkerson, a 19-year-old from Lake Worth, was at a get-together in Payne's apartment on Ripley Run carrying a black revolver early Thursday morning while the group of partygoers played ping-pong in a garage, according to the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office. Wilkerson was flirting with Payne's girlfriend, and Payne asked him to leave.

    Partygoers told police that Wilkerson was drunk and threatening to kill the unarmed Payne. Wilkerson got into his truck, and Payne followed, hitting the driver's side window with his hand. Nothing happened. The second time Payne hit the window, it broke. Wilkerson then shot Payne, 22, in the chest.

    "My client is charged because he won the altercation, so to speak," Shiner said. "It's just a very unfortunate situation."

    The Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office will decide how to handle the case after it reviews the police investigation, spokesman Mike Edmondson said.

    "It really is impossible to say" whether the Castle Doctrine will play a role in Wilkerson's case "until all the facts are known," Edmondson said. One thing is clear though: the Castle Doctrine holds more weight when threats occur at a home.

    Bob Dekle, a former prosecutor and University of Florida professor, had a similar interpretation: "There's a difference between a car and a home. The main difference I see is a car has wheels. A car is a perfect mechanism whereby you can retreat."

    Still, the Castle Doctrine has been a popular defense since its October 2005 passage.

    Norman Borden in June was the first defendant in Palm Beach County to beat murder charges under the law, when a jury acquitted him of all charges in a double slaying. Borden shot and killed two men and injured a third at about 2:30 one morning because he believed they were going to run him over while he walked his four dogs in the Westgate neighborhood near West Palm Beach.

    In February, investigators took into account the Castle Doctrine in declining to bring charges in another Wellington incident, also over a girl. Ricardo Collier III shot and injured Daniel Scott Merkel when the 17-year-old late one Saturday night incessantly banged on the Colliers' door and shouted obscenities.

    Jose Tapanes invoked the law when he contended that he shot, and killed, his Acreage neighbor Christopher Cote because he feared the 19-year-old was trying to break into his house early one morning. A judge in August refused to dismiss a first-degree murder charge against Tapanes.

    Meanwhile, Payne's family gathered Friday in mourning. Larry Thornburg said his grandson was the last person he expected to wind up dying by gunshot. The young man who loved steak, fishing and baseball must have been trying to protect people at the party, Thornburg said.

    Pain is acute for the Wilkersons too, their son's lawyer said.

    When reached by phone, Wilkerson's father, Terry, had this to say: "There's a lot of misery going around."

    Staff researcher Niels Heimeriks contributed to this story.

    Find this article at:
    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...wellshoot.html



  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Take youthful pride and bravado, interject women, alcohol and firearms, mix well and BAM tragedy. Hank, you certainly have a way of discovering self-defense cases wherein nothing is righteous. Drunk guy with a gun threatens your life. Then he starts to leave. Smart move is to chase after him banging on his vehicle's windows until you break one? I have a feeling that Wilkerson wasn't the only one intoxicated that night.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Love the propaganda!!

    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Take youthful pride and bravado, interject women, alcohol and firearms, mix well and BAM tragedy. Hank, you certainly have a way of discovering self-defense cases wherein nothing is righteous. Drunk guy with a gun threatens your life. Then he starts to leave. Smart move is to chase after him banging on his vehicle's windows until you break one? I have a feeling that Wilkerson wasn't the only one intoxicated that night.
    Hey deepdiver believe none of what you hear and half what you see. I'm jason patens cousin. I was the key witness. A firefighter paramedic. I did CPR on him for 10 min before rescue and police arrived. I witnessed the whole thing. One the story is ********. He never "followed" him to his vehicle. Wilkerson was drunk. Under 21 years old. Should never have been carrying a concealed weapon in 2 counts right there by law of Florida and every state with concealed weapons. Two he was told to leave and pulled a gun out count 1: trespassing. He pointed it at all 7 of us count 2:assault with a firearm x's 7. He turned stuck it to my cousins chest and told him he'd kill him. JASON NEVER FOLLOWED HIM. he was pointing an unknown unloaded gun to his chest and backed him to Williams truck in the driveway. William then got in his truck and started to load his unloaded weapon that he has no right to carry. My cousin then punched his window breaking it. As he reached in to grab it William shot TWICE to the chest. After William drove the wrong way out of the complex and had to come back by. While I was DRAGGING my cousin through the garage William then shot again at us. Count 3 attempted murder on me. Count 4 shooting into an occupied dwelling from vehicle. (Congrats jury) count 4 DUI. So my cousin died from an underage drunk child with plenty of chance to regress after already making a bold and aggressive move with a weapon. All he had to do was leave. He was the aggressor with a firearm and somehow is the victim.
    I hunt fish and own plenty of guns. But for in any instance you think this is ok to take a life you're wrong. One he was too young to carry. Two he was a young drunk punk that had no right to carry or make the decision to carry already putting himself In a bad position with a firearm. Btw how do you get charged with shooting into dwelling and not DUI and carrying weapon underage?? ****** up system.
    Like I said I am a gun owner republican but watch your ******* mouth just blabbing off bout some half wit ******** propaganda you read on some website buddy boy.

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    If you are being actually attacked, you have the right to shoot --- that's how the law should be. Eliminate all this thinking about the severity of the attack (fists, rocks, etc) if one could have retreated etc. and make the law clear and concise so that anyone can understand it.

    Yes, it may result in idiots shooting idiots ... but for the clarity of law I think its for the best.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Fyaytah343

    Sorry for your loss.

    Hopefully the whole truth will come out, but it cannot bring your family back. There is nothing I can say to make this any better. God Speed your cousin.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If you are being actually attacked, you have the right to shoot --- that's how the law should be. Eliminate all this thinking about the severity of the attack (fists, rocks, etc) if one could have retreated etc. and make the law clear and concise so that anyone can understand it.

    Yes, it may result in idiots shooting idiots ... but for the clarity of law I think its for the best.
    Would popcorn containers fall under this? Lol



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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Would popcorn containers fall under this? Lol



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    Unfortunately, yes. I've never thrown anything at anyone (other than water fights, etc, in play as a kid) unless I intended harm.

    So throwing anything at anyone is a good indication that the thrower intends on inflicting bodily harm upon someone else.

    Don't want to be shot? Don't throw things at people. Simple to understand.

    If contact is made the intent is clear.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Unfortunately, yes. I've never thrown anything at anyone (other than water fights, etc, in play as a kid) unless I intended harm.

    So throwing anything at anyone is a good indication that the thrower intends on inflicting bodily harm upon someone else.

    Don't want to be shot? Don't throw things at people. Simple to understand.

    If contact is made the intent is clear.
    Don't want to get raped in prison, don't be stupid. Popcorn is not deadly force. The idiot initiated contact, it was up to him to back off. I will throw anything I can get my hands on at someone who is assaulting me, until I can draw and end it. Shame the victim was not carrying, he was the only one who had a right to shoot.

    I hope they put this POS in GP and not isolated, so he can see what assault really is.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Don't want to get raped in prison, don't be stupid. Popcorn is not deadly force. The idiot initiated contact, it was up to him to back off. I will throw anything I can get my hands on at someone who is assaulting me, until I can draw and end it. Shame the victim was not carrying, he was the only one who had a right to shoot.

    I hope they put this POS in GP and not isolated, so he can see what assault really is.
    I think threads are being cross-posted here causing some confusion.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think threads are being cross-posted here causing some confusion.
    What happened is somebody brought up popcorn, and then you responded. Your response was not accurate, needed to be clarified.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Unfortunately, yes. I've never thrown anything at anyone (other than water fights, etc, in play as a kid) unless I intended harm.

    So throwing anything at anyone is a good indication that the thrower intends on inflicting bodily harm upon someone else.

    Don't want to be shot? Don't throw things at people. Simple to understand.

    If contact is made the intent is clear.
    I agree. This was brought up because you made a clear statement that anyone throwing ANYTHING. (Rocks popcorn pencils erasers etc) can be seen as assault/battery.

    I was just pointing out I agree with you.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I agree. This was brought up because you made a clear statement that anyone throwing ANYTHING. (Rocks popcorn pencils erasers etc) can be seen as assault/battery.

    I was just pointing out I agree with you.

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    You have no business wearing a badge, if you do, if you do not understand what is and what is not deadly force.

    Popcorn
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyaytah343 View Post
    Hey deepdiver believe none of what you hear and half what you see. I'm jason patens cousin. I was the key witness. A firefighter paramedic. I did CPR on him for 10 min before rescue and police arrived. I witnessed the whole thing. One the story is ********. He never "followed" him to his vehicle. Wilkerson was drunk. Under 21 years old. Should never have been carrying a concealed weapon in 2 counts right there by law of Florida and every state with concealed weapons. Two he was told to leave and pulled a gun out count 1: trespassing. He pointed it at all 7 of us count 2:assault with a firearm x's 7. He turned stuck it to my cousins chest and told him he'd kill him. JASON NEVER FOLLOWED HIM. he was pointing an unknown unloaded gun to his chest and backed him to Williams truck in the driveway. William then got in his truck and started to load his unloaded weapon that he has no right to carry. My cousin then punched his window breaking it. As he reached in to grab it William shot TWICE to the chest. After William drove the wrong way out of the complex and had to come back by. While I was DRAGGING my cousin through the garage William then shot again at us. Count 3 attempted murder on me. Count 4 shooting into an occupied dwelling from vehicle. (Congrats jury) count 4 DUI. So my cousin died from an underage drunk child with plenty of chance to regress after already making a bold and aggressive move with a weapon. All he had to do was leave. He was the aggressor with a firearm and somehow is the victim.
    I hunt fish and own plenty of guns. But for in any instance you think this is ok to take a life you're wrong. One he was too young to carry. Two he was a young drunk punk that had no right to carry or make the decision to carry already putting himself In a bad position with a firearm. Btw how do you get charged with shooting into dwelling and not DUI and carrying weapon underage?? ****** up system.
    Like I said I am a gun owner republican but watch your ******* mouth just blabbing off bout some half wit ******** propaganda you read on some website buddy boy.
    So your first post on this forum is a reply to a seven year old thread. Interesting!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So your first post on this forum is a reply to a seven year old thread. Interesting!
    Good catch, darn if I again did not look at the date...
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You have no business wearing a badge, if you do, if you do not understand what is and what is not deadly force.

    Popcorn
    Oh ok thanks for the instruction again walking wolf. I could have sworn it was PERCEIVED THREAT OF DEADLY force that you needed to respond with deadly force.... my bad.

    I guess if someone pulls a bb gun on you and you shoot them the its no good since you only PERCEIVED it to be real but its not different that a popcorn container.... some plastic.




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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Oh ok thanks for the instruction again walking wolf. I could have sworn it was PERCEIVED THREAT OF DEADLY force that you needed to respond with deadly force.... my bad.

    I guess if someone pulls a bb gun on you and you shoot them the its no good since you only PERCEIVED it to be real but its not different that a popcorn container.... some plastic.




    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Only a idiot thinks popcorn is deadly force.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyaytah343 View Post
    Hey deepdiver believe none of what you hear and half what you see. I'm jason patens cousin. I was the key witness. A firefighter paramedic. I did CPR on him for 10 min before rescue and police arrived. I witnessed the whole thing. One the story is ********. He never "followed" him to his vehicle. Wilkerson was drunk. Under 21 years old. Should never have been carrying a concealed weapon in 2 counts right there by law of Florida and every state with concealed weapons. Two he was told to leave and pulled a gun out count 1: trespassing. He pointed it at all 7 of us count 2:assault with a firearm x's 7. He turned stuck it to my cousins chest and told him he'd kill him. JASON NEVER FOLLOWED HIM. he was pointing an unknown unloaded gun to his chest and backed him to Williams truck in the driveway. William then got in his truck and started to load his unloaded weapon that he has no right to carry. My cousin then punched his window breaking it. As he reached in to grab it William shot TWICE to the chest. After William drove the wrong way out of the complex and had to come back by. While I was DRAGGING my cousin through the garage William then shot again at us. Count 3 attempted murder on me. Count 4 shooting into an occupied dwelling from vehicle. (Congrats jury) count 4 DUI. So my cousin died from an underage drunk child with plenty of chance to regress after already making a bold and aggressive move with a weapon. All he had to do was leave. He was the aggressor with a firearm and somehow is the victim.
    I hunt fish and own plenty of guns. But for in any instance you think this is ok to take a life you're wrong. One he was too young to carry. Two he was a young drunk punk that had no right to carry or make the decision to carry already putting himself In a bad position with a firearm. Btw how do you get charged with shooting into dwelling and not DUI and carrying weapon underage?? ****** up system.
    Like I said I am a gun owner republican but watch your ******* mouth just blabbing off bout some half wit ******** propaganda you read on some website buddy boy.
    Your friends are trash. Have fun killing each other. You can cry about how unfair life is in a jail cell or when you're rolling a pimple on the pavement. Your life is f'd up because you make stupid decisions. To get mad about our interpretation of a criminal shooting your criminal friend is stupid. Have fun playing gangsta in the streets. The rest of us will live long privileged lives and carry on in anticipation that you and your lowlife idiot friends decide to cross our paths while intoxicated or more lKelly tweaking on meth.

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