Misinformation from a LEO

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This happened to me a few months back, but I never got around to posting it. I've decided to offer it up for discussion today because I have some time on my hands, and the more I think about it the more it pisses me off.

I OC'd to a nearby town to get a haircut from my aunt. As I was walking in I bumped into the lady who owns the shop, she gave me a hug and we chatted for a second. She noticed my pistol and asked if it was legal, I informed her it was. She just sorta chuckled about it and said something to the effect of "Gotta love Idaho!" That may be worthless info, but it shows the business owner saw me carrying and had no objections.

I went into the shop and got my haircut pretty much uneventfully. An older lady asked me if I was a cop, I said no. My aunt then noticed my gun for the first time (I guess she wasn't in condition yellow!) and asked the usual questions about legality, and how often I carry. I left and thought nothing of it untill the next day when my aunt called me about an unrelated topic, then said, "oh, by the way I asked a cop friend of mine if it was legal for you to carry in a bank, and she said If she saw you she would arrest you." I pretty much just laughed it off, and informed her it was legal. I suggested she ask her brother who is also a LEO. She eventually asked my uncle who informed her it was legal, but not a good idea.

I don't know if the officer really would arrest someone she saw OCing, or if she thought the misinformation would scare me away from OC. It's a scary thought to think I could have an officer draw his/her gun on me and order me to the floor, all for going about my business. And for what it's worth I'm not real proud of my uncles response either.

So the moral of the story is don't ask LEO's advice about the law!

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Hey, at least when they illegally arrest you in the bank there will be plenty of security cameras for your lawsuit.

You may want to get the name of that officer so that you can talk to her. She might know something that you don't. It's more likely though, that she and her supervisor will need some educating.

LoveMyCountry

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I did ask my aunt the name of the LEO, but she kinda hesitated and acted like the lady wasn't a real good friend, and she couldn't remember her name. I thought maybe my aunt had made it up, but then I don't think she would have pursued the question w/ my uncle. I let it go, but had originally inteded to do as you advised.

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I am not sure what the Idaho laws are concerning recording devices, but if it is legal, you might consider getting one if you think you are going to have problems. Videos are very good, but even better when backed up with audio.

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It does seem a lot (not all) LEO's don't know the laws on OC or CC.

Also it seem 98% of the ones that will admit OC is legal STRONGLY advise against it for various reasons.

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JB wrote:

I did ask my aunt the name of the LEO, but she kinda hesitated and acted like the lady wasn't a real good friend, and she couldn't remember her name.

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It's always the same with these people--they're always throwing up roadblocks to legally carrying citizens. File an FOIA request immediately to make her cough it up.

Definitely, send it certified.

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JB wrote:

So the moral of the story is don't ask LEO's advice about the law!

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This is information that should be handed out with driver's licenses.Oh wait, the POLICE give out driver's licenses! (at least in Alabama). AHHHHHHHH!

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Today as I was driving to several shops looking for a few things and OC'ing as I went, the thought hit me that maybe there might be a hint of jealousy felt by LEO's towards us when we OC. After all, they are not the only game in town.. they are not the only armed people roaming around. I know it sounds nuts and it did to me, but then again, perhaps some egos might be rubbed the wrong way a little when they see an armed citizen.

Thoughts/comments/opinions?

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I would say it is a definite possibility by some LEO's

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I'm thinking that it really depends on where you go. I have seen lots of evidence that many cops on the street are supportive of citizen carry based on surveys I have read and other data. It also seems that the majority of the LEO political types, ie sheriffs, chiefs and captains and those who want to be in those positions, are anti-anyone-not-LEO-ever-having-a-gun. This was borne out in St. Louis City and County in the last few years in 3 defensive shootings on the street I am aware of where on the scene, the street cops took the CCer's statement, told him good job defending himself and were generally supportive and friendly and within days, the administration of the depts making some less commendable comment about the citizen protecting himself, usually couched in terms of, "While the shooting was justified, administration spokesman warned ....blahblahblah"

Locally I have had nothing but positive interactions with LEO from getting a permit to purchase (used to have to pay $10 and get a quick background check run and get a permit before purchasing a handgun - that was repealed in August), to getting my CCW, the Sheriff's deputies were very polite and even positive about it, with the officer who took my fingerprints saying "good for you." I have been to the range with officers, been in firearm classes with officers and had discussions on the street with them about carrying. I have yet to have one make one negative comment about it. But I doubt that generalizes very well across regions.

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FYI, there are PLENTY more citizens that don't know they have the right to carry than LEOs that don't know your rights. They are out there though. I have delt witha few, even in my department. All we can do is educate. What amazes me is the common folks that have NO clue about a right. Why do people even have to ask if it is legal??? Is it legal to vote? Is it legal to go to church? No one asks these questions... Our society has turned into children who feel they have to ask or have permission before they do anything. Sad... Truly sad.

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grog18b wrote:

FYI, there are PLENTY more citizens that don't know they have the right to carry than LEOs that don't know your rights. They are out there though. I have delt witha few, even in my department. All we can do is educate. What amazes me is the common folks that have NO clue about a right. Why do people even have to ask if it is legal??? Is it legal to vote? Is it legal to go to church? No one asks these questions... Our society has turned into children who feel they have to ask or have permission before they do anything. Sad... Truly sad.

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Well said, sir, well said.

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I hope this is considered to be on topic.

One reason many people don't know the legality of open carry is that, at least in Ohio, it is very confusing.

Ohio is an "Open Carry State" IE ther is no state legislation against open carry. However, every munincipality has the right to ban firearms (maybe not the best choice of words, but you get my drift). The latest version of our CCW legislation preempts this for licensed CCWers. This doesn't seem to phase the Mayor of Cleveland or some others who still try to ban guns in "Their" city. To make things worse, if you carefully decipher the legislation on carry in a vehicle, it is almost imposible for anyone not bearing a ccw license to transport an loaded or UNLOADEDhandgun in their car. It is legal to carry a loadedhandgun "in a holster concealed on your person" or in a locked container or a container with a latchingdevice in plain sight(blah-blah-blah)if you are ccw holder.

I get dizzy trying wade through the garbage and legalese to ensure that I am not inadvertantly commiting a crime. Needless to say,I dont OC often. I'm not against it in way. I just don't want to have to spend any time or money in court defending my self over some perceived crime. I do CC every where that I am legaly alowed to. I chaffe at the fact that I cannot carry in the most dangerous places in my state, highway reststop buildings!

Well enough af my spouting.

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Regarding the OP's Q.

This is PA, but I assume the mentality may be similar.

My experiences with LEO have been that some of them talk bad of OC but I have yet to have a problem while OC'ing.Most LEO's know and admit to knowing the law about OC. It leads me to believe that the "you'll be arrested" types are on a power trip that they know they can't follow up on in the field.

$.02

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It leads me to believe that the "you'll be arrested" types are on a power trip that they know they can't follow up on in the field.

I agree with this. It is my experience. But it is enough for them to start a file on you,so be careful! A whole lot of nothing, still looks like a lot if you don't look very close. We have a school board member who cannot attend meetings because someone claims they were threatened. No proof. Just maybe a great political move. Ace

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ace1001 wrote:

It leads me to believe that the "you'll be arrested" types are on a power trip that they know they can't follow up on in the field.

I agree with this. It is my experience. But it is enough for them to start a file on you,so be careful! A whole lot of nothing, still looks like a lot if you don't look very close. We have a school board member who cannot attend meetings because someone claims they were threatened. No proof. Just maybe a great political move. Ace

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Probably depends on the state too.

Here in PA we have case law (Commonwealth v Hawkins 1996) that clarifies that OC is not grounds for stop and ID.
I'd say an officer starting a file on you for mere OC (minus any other actual probematic behavior) wul dbe a bad move on the officers part.

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Who's going to know until they wish to use it? Then who looks back and says this was started on nothing substantial. They just say "This isn't much, but it looks like a pattern of intimidation." And maybe your soon to be ex would like to have you committed during the divorce proceedings?:what: There is a guy down here that it may have happened to, though I don't know him. It would certainly work. Ace

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Number 1. rule here... Never get legal advice from a LEO!!!



they can only give opinions and just like certain body parts everybody has one.

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luvmy40 wrote:

I hope this is considered to be on topic.

One reason many people don't know the legality of open carry is that, at least in Ohio, it is very confusing.

Ohio is an "Open Carry State" IE ther is no state legislation against open carry. However, every munincipality has the right to ban firearms (maybe not the best choice of words, but you get my drift). The latest version of our CCW legislation preempts this for licensed CCWers. This doesn't seem to phase the Mayor of Cleveland or some others who still try to ban guns in "Their" city. To make things worse, if you carefully decipher the legislation on carry in a vehicle, it is almost imposible for anyone not bearing a ccw license to transport an loaded or UNLOADEDhandgun in their car. It is legal to carry a loadedhandgun "in a holster concealed on your person" or in a locked container or a container with a latchingdevice in plain sight(blah-blah-blah)if you are ccw holder.

I get dizzy trying wade through the garbage and legalese to ensure that I am not inadvertantly commiting a crime. Needless to say,I dont OC often. I'm not against it in way. I just don't want to have to spend any time or money in court defending my self over some perceived crime. I do CC every where that I am legaly alowed to. I chaffe at the fact that I cannot carry in the most dangerous places in my state, highway reststop buildings!

Well enough af my spouting.

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Ohio municipalities can ban discharging of firearms in city limits and not much else. The preemption thing doesn't just apply to license holders, as I understand it.

-ljp

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Sheldon wrote:

Number 1. rule here... Never get legal advice from a LEO!!!



they can only give opinions and just like certain body parts everybody has one.

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Add to that, take any advice you get from a lawyer as advice, not fact. Granted they are more knowledgeable than most but they can only give opinions, in fact judges only give opinions and that is why we have the appeals system.

Think about this, if the law is clear then why are most SCOTUS rulings a 5-4 decision. If the top 9 supposedly law experts in the US can't agree on what the law means how is a normal LEO or person supposed to know?