Talked to an LEO today...

Noctaeon · Nov 26, 2007

imported post

I was registering and transfering registration to a friend for a tec 22 today and happened to ask the officer if he has run into anyone open carrying in the grand rapids area... and he said everytime they have they have used their rights to bring that person to the police station just to question them as to why they had a firearm and what need they would have for it.

Now I have talked to different LEOs about this and each has a different opinion some will detain others will just say something along the lines of "maybe it would be better just to get a cpl and conceal it" then let them be on their way.

comments opinions any LEOs?

I honestly don't want to spend 6 hrs in a police station answering questions i dont want to.

I have contemplated a career in different aspects of LE and want to do nothing to jeopardize that or mark me if i do.

Thanks ahead of time

Wynder · Nov 27, 2007

imported post

Noctaeon wrote:

I was registering and transfering registration to a friend for a tec 22 today and happened to ask the officer if he has run into anyone open carrying in the grand rapids area... and he said everytime they have they have used their rights to bring that person to the police station just to question them as to why they had a firearm and what need they would have for it.

Now I have talked to different LEOs about this and each has a different opinion some will detain others will just say something along the lines of "maybe it would be better just to get a cpl and conceal it" then let them be on their way.

comments opinions any LEOs?

I honestly don't want to spend 6 hrs in a police station answering questions i dont want to.

I have contemplated a career in different aspects of LE and want to do nothing to jeopardize that or mark me if i do.

Thanks ahead of time

Police officers don't have a 'right' to 'take someone downtown' without your consent. The only time they are allowed to do that is when they make an arrest. So, it stands to reason that if they arrest someone and transport them to the station then, wind up releasing them because they've done nothing wrong, they've infringed on that persons freedom of movement and illegally seized them, opening them up to a lawsuit.

ghostrider · Nov 27, 2007

imported post

Noctaeon wrote:

I was registering and transfering registration to a friend for a tec 22 today and happened to ask the officer if he has run into anyone open carrying in the grand rapids area... and he said everytime they have they have used their rights to bring that person to the police station just to question them as to why they had a firearm and what need they would have for it.

Now I have talked to different LEOs about this and each has a different opinion some will detain others will just say something along the lines of "maybe it would be better just to get a cpl and conceal it" then let them be on their way.
...

IANAL, but I'm wondering what "rights" they are talking about. What "right" do they have to arrest someone for something that is considered lawful behavior?

Also, I've read on other states forums that the act of carrying a firearm in and of itself is not reasonable suspicion (which is needed to detain someone).

Sounds like a case of, "We'll do what we want as long as the public lets us get away with it."

Michigander · Nov 27, 2007

imported post

I find that VERY difficult to believe. Anybody that OC's in Michigan does so because they know more about the law than most cops. The department would be eaten alive with law suits. I don't know what rights you are talking about, because what you described is an unlawful arrest.

If you are serious, please tell us the names of any officers involved so that forum members have the option of contacting them. If it is true, it is very important that they be given legal information.

ghostrider · Nov 28, 2007

imported post

Also to note:

Somewhere on one of the other subforums here, one of the resident officers (LEO229) I believe openly indicated that cops will lie to citizens to manipulate them. I have a feeling that that could well be the case in this instance.

LEO 229 wrote:

Cops can lie to people just like criminals lie to the cops. Keeps things fair.

Sometimes they may say something that may not be true and the reasoning may be to get you to comply or do something.

Call it being a bully if you like... But if the cop really wanted to "F" with you he could do far worse than talking.

It is called "an empty threat" and something they would never actually do.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=6172&forum_id=54&jump_to=101599#p101599

Michigunner · Dec 5, 2007

imported post

I have asked the Kentwood police and they seem to skirt the question, it was a cadet that gave the previous "bring you downtown" answer and it seemed like this is what they are tought in academy.

ghostrider · Dec 5, 2007

imported post

Michigunner wrote:

I have asked the Kentwood police and they seem to skirt the question, it was a cadet that gave the previous "bring you downtown" answer and it seemed like this is what they are tought in academy.

Or, maybe it was just lack of knowledge. Many people believe that OC is illegal. People often have preconcieved notions about how things are or should be.

It would be interesting to know if it is true that it's something that is taught at the academy.

Sailorwatson · Dec 5, 2007

imported post

I sent an email to the COP for Walker awhile back. Her assistant replied back asking where, in state law, did it say OC was legal in MI. That answered my question. They do not know the law. I never replied back.

ghostrider · Dec 5, 2007

imported post

Sailorwatson wrote:

I sent an email to the COP for Walker awhile back. Her assistant replied back asking where, in state law, did it say OC was legal in MI. That answered my question. They do not know the law. I never replied back.

You didn't by chance point out (to her assistant) the bulitens (stating that it is legal) from the MSP, did you? I'm sure her assistant knows that there doesn't need to be a law saying that it's legal, and was just trying to strongarm you.

Course, who wants to argue with someone using that sort of logic (or lack there of).

Skippy · Dec 6, 2007

imported post

Or, perhaps, ask her where in the statutes it says it's illegal. Remember, unless it's illegal, it's legal. We don't need a law to tell us something is allowed.

Wynder · Dec 6, 2007

imported post

Skippy wrote:

Or, perhaps, ask her where in the statutes it says it's illegal. Remember, unless it's illegal, it's legal. We don't need a law to tell us something is allowed.

Yeah... tell them that they'll get the answer to your question as soon as they let you know what statue makes wearing a green shirt on Monday's legal.

Sailorwatson · Dec 8, 2007

imported post

ghostrider wrote:

Sailorwatson wrote:

I sent an email to the COP for Walker awhile back. Her assistant replied back asking where, in state law, did it say OC was legal in MI. That answered my question. They do not know the law. I never replied back.

You didn't by chance point out (to her assistant) the bulitens (stating that it is legal) from the MSP, did you? I'm sure her assistant knows that there doesn't need to be a law saying that it's legal, and was just trying to strongarm you.

Course, who wants to argue with someone using that sort of logic (or lack there of).

I did not know about the bulletins until months later.

yankees98a · Dec 9, 2007

imported post

If this happens, you wouldn;t need a career in LE, as you could just retired due to the proceeds from abuse of the law..

ghostrider · Dec 12, 2007

imported post

Does anyone know if there is precedent on "brandishing"?

Also, is there a way to change this mentality without risking arrest?

Decoligny · Dec 12, 2007

imported post

ghostrider wrote:

Does anyone know if there is precedent on "brandishing"?

Also, is there a way to change this mentality without risking arrest?

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10176.htm

This is an AG determination that pretty much says "There is no case law definition of brandishing" but as such is the case then the dictionary definition should be used.

Nutshell: Brandishing = waving it about or pointing it at someone,not Open Carry in the Holster.

ghostrider · Dec 14, 2007

imported post

Decoligny wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

Does anyone know if there is precedent on "brandishing"?

Also, is there a way to change this mentality without risking arrest?

Click to expand...

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10176.htm

This is an AG determination that pretty much says "There is no case law definition of brandishing" but as such is the case then the dictionary definition should be used.

Nutshell: Brandishing = waving it about or pointing it at someone,not Open Carry in the Holster.

So, that means that there is no precedent? Also, the same with DC or disturbing the peace. That "causes alarm" thing?

I'm asking because, as it now stands, it sounds like the only way that people can OC without fear of reprisal is if someone gets arrested, and pushes it to set precedent.

Just curious.

Talked to an LEO today...

Noctaeon

New member

Wynder

State Researcher

ghostrider

Regular Member

Michigander

Regular Member

ghostrider

Regular Member

Michigunner

New member

ghostrider

Regular Member

Sailorwatson

Regular Member

ghostrider

Regular Member

Skippy

Regular Member

Wynder

State Researcher

Sailorwatson

Regular Member

yankees98a

Regular Member

ghostrider

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

ghostrider

Regular Member