Marco
Regular Member
imported post
I won't hold my breath.:X
I won't hold my breath.:X
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NFA FORM FOR FAIRFAX SHERIFF
- Thread starter rob99vmi04
- Start date
rob99vmi04
Regular Member
imported post
I FOUND THE FORM YIPPPPPPPEEEEEEE
HERE it is if you plan on getting a suppressor or building an SPR
I just love question #5
http://www.innovativetactical.com/catalog/FairfaxQuestionnaire.pdf
I FOUND THE FORM YIPPPPPPPEEEEEEE
HERE it is if you plan on getting a suppressor or building an SPR
I just love question #5
http://www.innovativetactical.com/catalog/FairfaxQuestionnaire.pdf
rob99vmi04
Regular Member
imported post
HEHEEH I wonder if I can answer #9 this way.
Security System:
Designed by Gaston in the 1980's it comes in 4 sizes. Tactical, Full Size, Compact, and Sub, emits hi speed injections of lead.
Generates Load Noises above 100 decibals when tripped. Capable of making 33 attacking bad guys go away if used properly.
HEHEEH I wonder if I can answer #9 this way.
Security System:
Designed by Gaston in the 1980's it comes in 4 sizes. Tactical, Full Size, Compact, and Sub, emits hi speed injections of lead.
Generates Load Noises above 100 decibals when tripped. Capable of making 33 attacking bad guys go away if used properly.
TEX1N
Regular Member
imported post
rob99vmi04 wrote:
rob99vmi04 wrote:
Government big-brother forms like that sure make me understand the reason the Founders used the wording "shall not be infringed!"
imported post
TEX1N wrote:
Oh please.... there are all valid questions.
They want to know if it is even worth their time to do the checks since most of the questions deal directly with disqualifications.
Some of the others deal with safety and there is no infringements of any rights to talk to you about securing a powerful gun from criminals and children.
Stop being so paranoid. :lol:
TEX1N wrote:
Oh please.... there are all valid questions.
They want to know if it is even worth their time to do the checks since most of the questions deal directly with disqualifications.
Some of the others deal with safety and there is no infringements of any rights to talk to you about securing a powerful gun from criminals and children.
Stop being so paranoid. :lol:
Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
Safety is a good tool for tyrants since no one can be against safety.
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP KMA$$
Safety is a good tool for tyrants since no one can be against safety.
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP KMA$$
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
1. your profession?
2. whether there are children in your home?
3. your profession? (Code of VA 18-295 registration of machine guns requires state police to determine your profession, not the CLEO)
4. whether you have a security system for your home?
5. whether you have security for your firearms in your home?
LEO 229 wrote:
What state or federal statutory requirement is fulfilled by theCLEO determining:
1. your profession?
2. whether there are children in your home?
3. your profession? (Code of VA 18-295 registration of machine guns requires state police to determine your profession, not the CLEO)
4. whether you have a security system for your home?
5. whether you have security for your firearms in your home?
imported post
Thundar wrote:
OK.... you arerequesting the Sheriff to sign off on the paperwork and he does not have to. You wanthimto certify that you are an upstanding member of his community and you can be trusted. Sucks I know... but he does not have a clue who you are!! If you want the gun you have to go through the motions.
You also have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer ANY of his questions. I can guarantee your request will be denied.
Before the Sheriffsigns off.. he would probably like to know who this person is, how safe the guns will be in the home,and what the guy does for employment.
It is not MANDATORY that he just sign off on it so keep that in mind.
Now.. why does he "need" to know? I do not work in IA for the Sheriff's office so I can only speculate. But obviously he does. He is not asking anything out of line or so personal you would be embarrassed if it was revealed.
If your job is REPO man, Drug dealer, Hit man, Pimp, Bouncer, or some other job that may require you to use or carry guns... they may want to be sure you know how to walk the fine line. Brandishing a machine gun is much more serious than brandishing a normal gun.
§ NFA gun is not going to get taken so easily if someone does break into your house. If you lack an alarm or strong box of some type they may want to speak with you and encourage you to get one.
I have an alarm AND a safe! So it does not matter to me. They can ask me and Ican happily respond that I am security conscious.
You already posted that the State police require to to report what you do so why is it a big deal for the Sheriff to want to know?
Thundar wrote:
OK.... you arerequesting the Sheriff to sign off on the paperwork and he does not have to. You wanthimto certify that you are an upstanding member of his community and you can be trusted. Sucks I know... but he does not have a clue who you are!! If you want the gun you have to go through the motions.
You also have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer ANY of his questions. I can guarantee your request will be denied.
Before the Sheriffsigns off.. he would probably like to know who this person is, how safe the guns will be in the home,and what the guy does for employment.
It is not MANDATORY that he just sign off on it so keep that in mind.
Now.. why does he "need" to know? I do not work in IA for the Sheriff's office so I can only speculate. But obviously he does. He is not asking anything out of line or so personal you would be embarrassed if it was revealed.
If your job is REPO man, Drug dealer, Hit man, Pimp, Bouncer, or some other job that may require you to use or carry guns... they may want to be sure you know how to walk the fine line. Brandishing a machine gun is much more serious than brandishing a normal gun.
§ NFA gun is not going to get taken so easily if someone does break into your house. If you lack an alarm or strong box of some type they may want to speak with you and encourage you to get one.
I have an alarm AND a safe! So it does not matter to me. They can ask me and Ican happily respond that I am security conscious.
You already posted that the State police require to to report what you do so why is it a big deal for the Sheriff to want to know?
Mr. Y
Regular Member
imported post
Initially, I did not oppose Sheriff Barry's "form" however it's identical to a form used by another county Sheriff and I'm willing to bet that it's a common form among Virginia's sheriffs. Incidentally, I found it particularly smarmy of Sheriff Barry to solicit campaign donations from all of his signoff 'customers' during his reelection campaign.
It went something like this - Dear Mr. Y, blah blah blah, very critical election. My opponent does not support the 2nd Amendment as I do... blah blah sign form 4's for machine guns, suppressors.... Blah blah... please contribute to my reelection campaign.
Where I'm from we call that a "shakedown".
I have serious concerns about just where these forms end up. Remember, everything you pen down on a government form can and will be used against you in any way shape or form possible if you EVER have a professional dealing with law enforcement.
Don't play their games. Form a revocable living trust to transfer the NFA items into. You can find a host of info by googling "revocable living trust NFA". Mark Barnes wrote an article for Small Arms Review within the past year about it. There is a divergence of opinion on whether it should be done via lawyer of one of the ubiquitous legal software programs you can buy off the shelf. I won't comment one way or the other on that specific item, it's your choice. However the Trust is an excellent route to go for ownership because - no pictures, no print cards, no CLEO signoff and you can use the trust for more than just NFA- or not.
To paraphrase my good friend Marcellus Wallace - ' This$hit is between you, me, and Mr. soon to be livin' the rest of his short a$$ life in agonizin' pain rapist here. You hear me hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight...I'm gonna get medievalon yo' a$$'...
Fairfax PD doesn't have any control over Class III, Its the CLEO which in Fairfax is the Sheriff.
IS the CLEO the Sheriff where there is a county or city police department? I thought I stumbled across some code that had some mention - maybe it was primary LE function... ? You're correct that the Sheriff will sign off, but it's my understanding that if the Sheriff doesn't you can use thePD chief, commonwealth's atty., and a couple others.
Hey, I just noticed that part. That means as long as I'm shooting with a Notary, I can produce my registration on a post it right then and there. SWEET! :monkey
Initially, I did not oppose Sheriff Barry's "form" however it's identical to a form used by another county Sheriff and I'm willing to bet that it's a common form among Virginia's sheriffs. Incidentally, I found it particularly smarmy of Sheriff Barry to solicit campaign donations from all of his signoff 'customers' during his reelection campaign.
It went something like this - Dear Mr. Y, blah blah blah, very critical election. My opponent does not support the 2nd Amendment as I do... blah blah sign form 4's for machine guns, suppressors.... Blah blah... please contribute to my reelection campaign.
Where I'm from we call that a "shakedown".
I have serious concerns about just where these forms end up. Remember, everything you pen down on a government form can and will be used against you in any way shape or form possible if you EVER have a professional dealing with law enforcement.
Don't play their games. Form a revocable living trust to transfer the NFA items into. You can find a host of info by googling "revocable living trust NFA". Mark Barnes wrote an article for Small Arms Review within the past year about it. There is a divergence of opinion on whether it should be done via lawyer of one of the ubiquitous legal software programs you can buy off the shelf. I won't comment one way or the other on that specific item, it's your choice. However the Trust is an excellent route to go for ownership because - no pictures, no print cards, no CLEO signoff and you can use the trust for more than just NFA- or not.
To paraphrase my good friend Marcellus Wallace - ' This$hit is between you, me, and Mr. soon to be livin' the rest of his short a$$ life in agonizin' pain rapist here. You hear me hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight...I'm gonna get medievalon yo' a$$'...
Fairfax PD doesn't have any control over Class III, Its the CLEO which in Fairfax is the Sheriff.
IS the CLEO the Sheriff where there is a county or city police department? I thought I stumbled across some code that had some mention - maybe it was primary LE function... ? You're correct that the Sheriff will sign off, but it's my understanding that if the Sheriff doesn't you can use thePD chief, commonwealth's atty., and a couple others.
:quirky Coming from a poster witha Yoda avatar?
Hey, I just noticed that part. That means as long as I'm shooting with a Notary, I can produce my registration on a post it right then and there. SWEET! :monkey
rob99vmi04
Regular Member
imported post
Date: September 14, 2006
Subject: ATF Form 1 or Form 4 Applications
Reference: Required Documents
Dear Sir or Madam:
The Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office requires that all ATF Form 1 and Form 4 Applicants submit a complete set of documents so that their Form 1 or Form 4 Application packets can be processed quickly and accurately.
NEW POLICY:[/b]
You must submit your packet of documents to us in person. You will be required to display a valid photo ID with signature and photo that matches the applicant information on the Form 1 or the Form 4, the fingerprint cards and the questionnaire.[/b]
[/b]
You will need to deliver your packet to us at the 10520 Judicial Drive, Adult Detention Center, 1[suP]st[/suP] Floor Lobby Information Booth, Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 3:30.[/b]
Below is a list of the required documents:
· ATF Form 4 – Must be completely filled out and signed by both the transferor and you, the transferee. Photographs must be attached and handwriting must be legible. Two forms for each firearm or device are required.
or
· ATF Form 1 - Must be completely filled out and signed by the Applicant. Photographs must be attached and handwriting must be legible. Two forms for each firearm or device are required.
plus
· Approved fingerprint cards that are complete and legible are required for each Form 4 Application.
(Note: The Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office does not fingerprint or provide fingerprint cards).
· A completed Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office Form: Questions for Investigation of AFT Form 1, Form 4 and Form 5 Applications.
Once we receive your complete packet, it will take three to four weeks to process it. Once this process is completed, the original document packet will be mailed to you. You will be responsible for forwarding the packet for submission to the ATF.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to call Reserve Deputy Dick Raines at 703-246-4325 or me at 703-246-3207.
[align=center]Sincerely,[/align]
[align=center]1[suP]st[/suP] Lieutenant Mylene Whorton[/b][/align]
[align=center]Supervisor, Internal Affairs Section[/b][/align]
[align=center][/b][/align]
[align=center]
[/align]
[size=[font=Arial][/font]][/size]
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4110 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Virginia 22030 703-246-3207 fax 703-385-2537 [/b]
Date: September 14, 2006
Subject: ATF Form 1 or Form 4 Applications
Reference: Required Documents
Dear Sir or Madam:
The Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office requires that all ATF Form 1 and Form 4 Applicants submit a complete set of documents so that their Form 1 or Form 4 Application packets can be processed quickly and accurately.
NEW POLICY:[/b]
You must submit your packet of documents to us in person. You will be required to display a valid photo ID with signature and photo that matches the applicant information on the Form 1 or the Form 4, the fingerprint cards and the questionnaire.[/b]
[/b]
You will need to deliver your packet to us at the 10520 Judicial Drive, Adult Detention Center, 1[suP]st[/suP] Floor Lobby Information Booth, Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 3:30.[/b]
Below is a list of the required documents:
· ATF Form 4 – Must be completely filled out and signed by both the transferor and you, the transferee. Photographs must be attached and handwriting must be legible. Two forms for each firearm or device are required.
or
· ATF Form 1 - Must be completely filled out and signed by the Applicant. Photographs must be attached and handwriting must be legible. Two forms for each firearm or device are required.
plus
· Approved fingerprint cards that are complete and legible are required for each Form 4 Application.
(Note: The Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office does not fingerprint or provide fingerprint cards).
· A completed Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office Form: Questions for Investigation of AFT Form 1, Form 4 and Form 5 Applications.
Once we receive your complete packet, it will take three to four weeks to process it. Once this process is completed, the original document packet will be mailed to you. You will be responsible for forwarding the packet for submission to the ATF.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to call Reserve Deputy Dick Raines at 703-246-4325 or me at 703-246-3207.
[align=center]Sincerely,[/align]
[align=center]1[suP]st[/suP] Lieutenant Mylene Whorton[/b][/align]
[align=center]Supervisor, Internal Affairs Section[/b][/align]
[align=center][/b][/align]
[align=center]
[/align]
[size=[font=Arial][/font]][/size]
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[size=[font=Arial][/font]][/size]
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4110 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Virginia 22030 703-246-3207 fax 703-385-2537 [/b]
IanB
Regular Member
imported post
Mr. Y wrote:
OK, back to reality... If I was rich I'd love to own a NFA firearm. But since I'm not I am in the camp that makes their ammo count!
Mr. Y wrote:
What are you? A dark Sith Lord? How could you make fun of my Yoda avatar?!?
OK, back to reality... If I was rich I'd love to own a NFA firearm. But since I'm not I am in the camp that makes their ammo count!
Mr. Y
Regular Member
imported post
That's a broad selection as opposed to the narrow machine gun NFA owners. NFA firearms include, but are not limited to "AOW / Any other Weapon such as the Serbu Super Shorty or this beaut from Tactical Innovations:
Sawed off / Sawn off shotguns, short barrelled shotguns:
Suppressors, Short barrelled rifles& destructive devices (cannons, artillery, anti-tank guns, grenade launchers, etc.).
You don't have to be wealthy to have NFA. Heck, you can still own a Mac 11 for under 3 grand if you're ready to buy and keep an eye on the ads. That's roughly 3.2 H&K handguns, about 4.25 Sigarms, 5 Berettas, 6 Smith & Wessons... You get the picture. Expensive, but not --that-- expensive. An AC556 (f/a mini 14) between 5-6 big ones, and an FNC for 6800- 7500. Admittedly, these are pricey, heck you can have a vehicle for this, but they're select fire and more than capable of aimed, well placed shots at distance.
Admittedly you're not going to be open carrying them absent some serious emergency, but the ability is there for you to own them and shoot them.
Ixne on the Sith lord isclosurede ...
That's a broad selection as opposed to the narrow machine gun NFA owners. NFA firearms include, but are not limited to "AOW / Any other Weapon such as the Serbu Super Shorty or this beaut from Tactical Innovations:
Sawed off / Sawn off shotguns, short barrelled shotguns:
Suppressors, Short barrelled rifles& destructive devices (cannons, artillery, anti-tank guns, grenade launchers, etc.).
You don't have to be wealthy to have NFA. Heck, you can still own a Mac 11 for under 3 grand if you're ready to buy and keep an eye on the ads. That's roughly 3.2 H&K handguns, about 4.25 Sigarms, 5 Berettas, 6 Smith & Wessons... You get the picture. Expensive, but not --that-- expensive. An AC556 (f/a mini 14) between 5-6 big ones, and an FNC for 6800- 7500. Admittedly, these are pricey, heck you can have a vehicle for this, but they're select fire and more than capable of aimed, well placed shots at distance.
Admittedly you're not going to be open carrying them absent some serious emergency, but the ability is there for you to own them and shoot them.
LRS76251
Regular Member
imported post
Just do a revocable trust and no worries of CLEO signatures, fingerprints, etc. Tell them to stuff their paperwork. Thats what I did for all my cans. MG's are a bit different since you have to register them with the State Police. However, you still don't need a CLEO signature on your Form 4 for the MG's.
Just do a revocable trust and no worries of CLEO signatures, fingerprints, etc. Tell them to stuff their paperwork. Thats what I did for all my cans. MG's are a bit different since you have to register them with the State Police. However, you still don't need a CLEO signature on your Form 4 for the MG's.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
LRS76251 wrote:
This is very short-sighted - if the Sherrifs just sign the Form 4s they will know who has all this stuff - might be useful in an investigation some day! Duh!
Someday a Sherriff is going to be embarrassed after a NFA item related crime when he has to admit to the press he has no idea who legally owns NFA stuff in his County b/c he was afraid to sign the Form 4s!!
LRS76251 wrote:
Right! - Sheriffs like Berry who demand extra info are merely pushing people to transfer thru a legal fiction (i.e., juridical entity) and they miss out on keeping tabs for NFA items outside of machine guns (already known VA registration requirement).
This is very short-sighted - if the Sherrifs just sign the Form 4s they will know who has all this stuff - might be useful in an investigation some day! Duh!
Someday a Sherriff is going to be embarrassed after a NFA item related crime when he has to admit to the press he has no idea who legally owns NFA stuff in his County b/c he was afraid to sign the Form 4s!!
Mr. Y
Regular Member
imported post
Not really... The sheriff had no idea about all the handguns, shotguns, rifles, nunchucks, blackjacks, stun guns, tasers, knives, dirks, daggers, slings, bows, arrows, crossbows, catapaults, hammers, battleaxes, scimitars, katanas, long swords, maces, pikes, spears, clubs, and farm implements are in the current inventory of county residents and it doesn't seem to affect his election outcome.
30 cal slut
Regular Member
imported post
interesting.
i guess this isn't saying much for virginia (well, maybe for fairfax county), but you should all consider yourselves fortunate that the fairfax sheriff WILL sign off on ATF 1 and 4. many across the country don't.
i prefer to go the CLEO route rather than the trust route ...while thetrust route evades the CLEO signature,at the end of the day the dadgum NFA boomsticks are MINE.
i wouldn't want to have to go through the trouble of later trying to transfer from a trust to myself individually (get the sig and pay the tax AGAIN).
3-4 weeks is admittedly a long time to wait just for a CLEO signature when that gets tacked onto a 3-6 month wait for ATF to process the 1's and 4's. but in the back of my mind, it's worth it.
i am fortunate that my local chief (here in southern new england)will sign off on forms. he has a PITA process in place (need to make appointments etc.) but the turnaround is one week and you get to meet, greet, and shake hands with the chief in person, which, is actually not a bad thing.
one thing that i've done that has helped speed things up a bit where I am... maybe this will work for FFX /VA:
1) prior to application, request from the sheriff or local pd a "letter of good conduct" if possible. this is essentially an official background check which shows the local LEO is not aware of any LOCAL complaints or convictions. include a copy of this with your 1/4. Sometimes these letters are free (depends on your locality).
2) photocopy of your CHP if you have one.
interesting.
i guess this isn't saying much for virginia (well, maybe for fairfax county), but you should all consider yourselves fortunate that the fairfax sheriff WILL sign off on ATF 1 and 4. many across the country don't.
i prefer to go the CLEO route rather than the trust route ...while thetrust route evades the CLEO signature,at the end of the day the dadgum NFA boomsticks are MINE.
i wouldn't want to have to go through the trouble of later trying to transfer from a trust to myself individually (get the sig and pay the tax AGAIN).
3-4 weeks is admittedly a long time to wait just for a CLEO signature when that gets tacked onto a 3-6 month wait for ATF to process the 1's and 4's. but in the back of my mind, it's worth it.
i am fortunate that my local chief (here in southern new england)will sign off on forms. he has a PITA process in place (need to make appointments etc.) but the turnaround is one week and you get to meet, greet, and shake hands with the chief in person, which, is actually not a bad thing.
one thing that i've done that has helped speed things up a bit where I am... maybe this will work for FFX /VA:
1) prior to application, request from the sheriff or local pd a "letter of good conduct" if possible. this is essentially an official background check which shows the local LEO is not aware of any LOCAL complaints or convictions. include a copy of this with your 1/4. Sometimes these letters are free (depends on your locality).
2) photocopy of your CHP if you have one.
LRS76251
Regular Member
imported post
Last time I bought a can it took 3 weeks door to door. Things have sped up considerably since ATF moved the NFA clearinghouse to West Virginia. It shouldn't be taking 3 to 6 months anymore. If it does, I'd get on the horn and get whatever issue is going on resolved post haste.
Last time I bought a can it took 3 weeks door to door. Things have sped up considerably since ATF moved the NFA clearinghouse to West Virginia. It shouldn't be taking 3 to 6 months anymore. If it does, I'd get on the horn and get whatever issue is going on resolved post haste.
Mr. Y
Regular Member
imported post
It's still reasonably quick, but FCSD signoff is anywhere from 15 - 40 days door to door and that's before the ~30 days ATFU takes. Once your trust is setup that's all you deal with.
It's still reasonably quick, but FCSD signoff is anywhere from 15 - 40 days door to door and that's before the ~30 days ATFU takes. Once your trust is setup that's all you deal with.