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Thread: OC/CC question

  1. #1
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    To what extent to CCW laws apply to my place of business and to my home? I have very specific concerns about where I work, like not wanting to get shot in a robbery.

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    Good question, actually. You are pretty much free to handle guns as you see fit in your own home - CC without a permit, etc., as long as you aren't threatening anyone unduly. Not so lax at a place of business, though. You either have to OC at work, or leave a gun out in plain view, or get a permit to CC. Your employer likewise has to approve of you going armed (the trespassing thing can be applied to the help if they don't like it). Having a loaded handgun on a shelf under the counter makes it a concealed weapon ready at hand, and you can be charged for CCW violation (a 4th degree felony here - not trivial). I daresay that I've become something of an authority on the Ohio CCW laws in recent months, but it won't hurt my feelings if you want to consult an attorney as well.

    In the meantime, you can scroll through the actual text of the relevant sections of the Ohio Revised Code to claify your particular situation: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.

    -ljp

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    My concern is that if a thug comes in and shoots someone and robs the store and I fire back, am I going to jail for a felony? I see people come in every day CCW and I'm SURE that some of them don't have permits just judging from their demeanor/attire. I'm more afraid of getting shot at my job than I was when I was overseas.

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    If you reasonably apprehend a threat to your life or safety, you can respond with deadly force. If someone robs your shop (and I do mean forcible robbery and not shoplifting -this isn't Texas), you can shoot them. Just make sure that they haven't "disengaged," because if you shoot someone in the back while they're running away and no longer threatening you, that's illegal here. I rather doubt you'd get charged for CCW for an otherwisejustified shooting in any case - it'd be politically unpopular (besides the fact that it's no longer concealed if you're using it and you can just deny that it was before). Still, get a permit if there's any question. I'm in a ton of **** for transporting an unloaded gun in a van because I didn't have one, so you never know.

    -ljp

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    To what extent to CCW laws apply to my place of business and to my home? I have very specific concerns about where I work, like not wanting to get shot in a robbery.
    I agree with Legba as to the back and shoplifters, I believe he does not have to have his protection out in the open as it applies to work. v8shoguy said his place of business. If he owns the business then I believe he is not obligated to have it in the open.

    Legba your comment is welcomed as to him owning his own bussiness.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, the exemption for keeping it concealed without a permit only applies to ones household.

    from http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12:

    (E) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A) of this section of carrying or having control of a handgun other than a dangerous ordnance that the actor was not otherwise prohibited by law from having the handgun and that the handgun was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for any lawful purpose and while in the actor’s own home, provided that this affirmative defense is not available unless the actor, prior to arriving at the actor’s own home, did not transport or possess the handgun in a motor vehicle in a manner prohibited by division (B) or (C) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code while the motor vehicle was being operated on a street, highway, or other public or private property used by the public for vehicular traffic.

    ---

    Note the wording of section D carefully in the link. The affirmative defense for going about to or from, or at the place of, one's lawful occupation only applies to firearms other than a handgun or a dangerous odrnance - no handguns. Any such long guns must also be transported according to 2923.16 ORC. The law doesn't specify special standing for the owner vs. employee/agent, although I suppose you might have a case if you worked out of your house (it had better be zoned for business...).

    -ljp


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    Legba, I think we misunderstood his question. v8 said: "To what extent to CCW laws apply to my place of business and to my home?"

    If he has a CC and his work allows employees to CC then he has a right to defend if he is in fear of his life. Again, no shoplifters or in the back or if the BG is running away.

    This would also apply to home.

    Please note this is a general statement.

    Legba, your thoughts.

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    If he has a concealed carry license, he's OK, sure. Carry away in whatever form you like. Absent a license, though, the law restricts you to OC at work - that's all I was getting at. He still needs permission from his employer (if he's not self-employed)to carry on the job in either case.

    An interesting case might be if someone had a permit and ended up shooting someone, but the employer had a no-gun policy. I wonder if that might create some additional cause of action against the employee beyond trespassing... I won't volunteer to be a test case for that. ;-/

    -ljp

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    Legba wrote:
    An interesting case might be if someone had a permit and ended up shooting someone, but the employer had a no-gun policy. I wonder if that might create some additional cause of action against the employee beyond trespassing... I won't volunteer to be a test case for that. ;-/

    -ljp
    That's the particular issue in this case. I understand fully that by doing so I would risk losing my job, but I argue that it's better to stand risk of losing one's employment than stand defenseless in a robbery. Isn't there a law pertaining to "lesser of 2 evils" in OH? i.e. Armed robbery > breech of contract therefore only #1 gets punished? Surely a judge would see that no harm would... aah, nevermind, I'm in the same county as Legba! I'm just glad that corprate hasn't made it public that we're a CPZ, although I plan to do so AFTER I leave the company if they are unwilling to grant me an exemption to their policy. I am actually in the process of getting my CCW in KY as we speak.

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    I rather doubt that many employers around here, other than an armored car company or gun shop, say,would consent to people bringing guns to work. It's simply not part of the corporate "paradigm." That said, if it came to the point where you justifiably shot someone to prevent a robbery, you could make a press case out of it and probably shame everyone into dropping ******** charges like discharging a gun in city limits or trespassing or whatever. I still don't recommend volunteering oneself for legal challenges like that. It is extremely disruptive to one's life, liberty,and sanity. Consider a change of employment if you are determined to carry all the time. An employer who holds their own people's lives in such disregard isn't worthy of your dedicated service.

    -ljp

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