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Gun Show Loophole Tactics

Renegade

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Jan 17, 2007
Messages
270
Location
Yorktown, VA, ,
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LEO 229 wrote:
If we are going to push the issue of Bill of Rights is "shall not be infringed."

When are we going to push to allow convicted felons to be allowed to possess guns again? :cool:
Let's cut to the quick - it is easy for a convicted felon to get a gun. Their stores are a phone call away, open 24/7, and require no background check, waiting period, etc.

The way I see it - if the guy has served his time - he has paid his debt.

And does anyone here actually believe that if a felon wanted a gun he would refrain from purchasing one because it is against the law?!?
 

LEO 229

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ama-gi wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I am willing to bet that is they made it a rule that anyone caught speeding could never possess a firearm... would cause most gun lovers to obey the speed limit!!
Castration would probably be even more effective. How about death of the person's first born. Why don't you push for that, LEO 229?

There is a point where the punishment of the state becomes more harmful than the "crime" - whatever it may be - that the state is trying to prevent. If I gave examples, I'd be typing all day.

I would like to see people in jail stay in the cell for 24 hours a day....

No TV.. No leather craft workshop... No Weight lifting.....

You STAY behind bars the entire time!! :cool:

You get punished because we all know that jail does not stop criminals from committing more crimes when they get out. All jail does is take them off the streets for a while.

Closing the"loophole"..... is a small way to help keep guns out of their hands. We all know that nothing is 100% effective but you have to do what you can.
 

Neplusultra

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Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
I would like to see people in jail stay in the cell for 24 hours a day....

No TV.. No leather craft workshop... No Weight lifting.....

You STAY behind bars the entire time!! :cool:

You get punished because we all know that jail does not stop criminals from committing more crimes when they get out. All jail does is take them off the streets for a while.

Closing the"loophole"..... is a small way to help keep guns out of their hands. We all know that nothing is 100% effective but you have to do what you can.
There is one factor I do believe you're not considering LEO. I believe you are making the mistake of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals "above all else". What is the colateral cost of your attempt to keep guns out of their hands? At what point does keeping guns out of their hands become "too" expensive, financially and freedomly (is that a word?)?
 

Comp-tech

State Researcher
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
934
Location
, Alabama, USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
I would like to see people in jail stay in the cell for 24 hours a day....

No TV.. No leather craft workshop... No Weight lifting.....

You STAY behind bars the entire time!! :cool:

You get punished because we all know that jail does not stop criminals from committing more crimes when they get out. All jail does is take them off the streets for a while.

You make sense to me in the above LEO......I think that is part of the problem as well.
We should increase terms for serious crime and make them serve the entire sentence...no plea deals, you do the crime, you do the time...HARD TIME, not some vacation in a fenced resort.

Closing the"loophole"..... is a small way to help keep guns out of their hands. We all know that nothing is 100% effective but you have to do what you can.

As for closing the "loophole", does anyone REALLY believe that felons are buying guns at gunshows (through private sales)?
Just how stupid would a felon have to be to make a gun purchase in a place where there is just slightly fewer LEO than at a Presidential appearance?.....c'mon, this is "anti" sentiment AT BEST if you really think about it.
 

dixiehacker

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Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
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Location
, Virginia, USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I am willing to bet that is they made it a rule that anyone caught speeding could never possess a firearm... would cause most gun lovers to obey the speed limit!!
Castration would probably be even more effective. How about death of the person's first born. Why don't you push for that, LEO 229?

There is a point where the punishment of the state becomes more harmful than the "crime" - whatever it may be - that the state is trying to prevent. If I gave examples, I'd be typing all day.

I would like to see people in jail stay in the cell for 24 hours a day....

No TV.. No leather craft workshop... No Weight lifting.....

You STAY behind bars the entire time!! :cool:

You get punished because we all know that jail does not stop criminals from committing more crimes when they get out. All jail does is take them off the streets for a while.

Closing the"loophole"..... is a small way to help keep guns out of their hands. We all know that nothing is 100% effective but you have to do what you can.
For the record, LEO229, are you suggesting requiring background checks at all sales which happen at gun shows, or all private sales in general?

I can understand, thought disagree, with the idea that sales at gun shows where someone can go in and buy a gun from a stranger without a background check. I cannot, however, understand why private sales in general should require a background check. Many of us on this board have sold guns to friends or given them as gifts to people who we know not to be a threat to society.

This is extrememly impotant to address. Those who are proposing to pass laws to ban certain sales at gun shows are all too often forbidding the private sales of firearms in general, not just at gun shows.
 

Comp-tech

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Messages
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Location
, Alabama, USA
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From "Gun Facts" ... http://www.gunfacts.info
Crap loads of stats/info with sources to back it up.....


Myth: Gun shows are supermarkets for criminals

Fact: The FBI concluded in one study that no firearms used to kill cops “In contrast to media
myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows.”264
Fact: Only 0.7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows. 39.2% obtained them from
illegal street dealers.265
Fact: Less than 1% of “crime guns” were obtained at gun shows266. This is an improvement
from an earlier study that found 1.7% - 2% of guns used in criminal offenses were purchased at
gun shows.267
Fact: Only 5% of metropolitan police departments believe that gun shows are a problem.268
Fact: Only 3.5% of youthful offenders reported that they obtained their last handgun at a gun
show.269
Fact: 93% of guns used in crimes are obtained illegally (i.e., not at gun stores or gun shows).270
Fact: At most 14% of all firearms traced in investigations were purchased at a gun show.271 But
this includes just traced weapons, which overstates the acquisition rate.
Fact: Gun dealers are federally licensed, and must follow the rules for sales regardless of
whether they are dealing from a storefront, or a gun show.272

Myth: 25-50% of the vendors at most gun shows are“unlicensed dealers”

Fact: There is no such thing as an “unlicensed dealer”, except for people that buy and sell
antique – known as curio – weapons.
Fact: This 25-50% figure can only be achieved if you include dealers not selling guns at these
shows. These non-gun dealers include knife makers, ammunition dealers, accessories dealers,
military artifact traders, clothing vendors, bumper sticker sellers, and hobbyists. In short, 50% of
the vendors at shows are not selling firearms at all!

Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control

Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the
same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are
highly likely to commit more crimes. 62.5% were re-arrested for new felonies or serious
misdemeanors within three years. Those early released felons killed another 2,282 people.273
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional
supervision in the community--either on probation or on parole.274 Why isn’t the government
doing its job?
Fact: Los Angeles county saw repeat offender and re-arrest 15,775 Rearrested convicts
rates soar after closing jails and releasing prisoners early. In 1,443 Assault charges275
less than three years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted 518 Robbery charges
in:276 215 Sex offense charges
16 Murder charges
Fact: In 1991, 13,200 homicides were committed by felons
on parole or probation. For comparison sake, this is about ½ of the 1999 annual gun death totals
(keep in mind that gun deaths fell from 1991 to 1999).
Fact: The average annual social damage prevented by incarcerating a newly admitted New
Jersey violent criminal is $1.6 million. This is a far higher cost than the annual $25,000 expense
of imprisoning a violent criminal.


264
U.S. Department of Justice, "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's La
Enforcement Officers", August 2006
265
Bureau of Justice Statistics, “Firearm Use by Offenders”, November 2001
266
Ibid
267
National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. According to an NIJ study
released in December 1997 "Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities"
268
Center to Prevent Handgun Violence survey of 37 police departments in large cities, reported in a CPHV report
titled “On the Front Line: Making Gun Interdiction Work”, February 1998
269
Timothy S. Bynum, Todd G. Beitzel, Tracy A. O’Connell & Sean P. Varano, “Patterns in Gun Acquisition and
Use by Youthful Offenders in Michigan”, 1999
270
BATF, 1999
271
BATF, June 2000, covers only July 1996 through December 1998
272
BATF, 2000
273
Department of Justice Recidivism, 1999
274
US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
275
Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crimes.
276
" Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll", Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
 

Mr. Y

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Oct 6, 2006
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Location
Super Secret Squirrel Bunker, Virginia, USA
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I am willing to bet that is they made it a rule that anyone caught speeding could never possess a firearm... would cause most gun lovers to obey the speed limit!!
I want in on that action. <note to FCPD SWAT: Raid LEO229's house. Guaranteed it's a softer target>

I'll take that bet without hesitation. I'm more inclined to believe that in such a case your analysis of the cause / effect is a bit off. I'm willing to bet that the effect would not be slowing down, but would be ambushes, traps, and a whole lot of bloodshed.

For everyone's sake, I hope I'm never able to collect from LEO229 on this one.
 

LEO 229

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Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
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Location
USA
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Mr. Y wrote:
I am willing to bet that is they made it a rule that anyone caught speeding could never possess a firearm... would cause most gun lovers to obey the speed limit!!
I want in on that action. <note to FCPD SWAT: Raid LEO229's house. Guaranteed it's a softer target>

I'll take that bet without hesitation. I'm more inclined to believe that in such a case your analysis of the cause / effect is a bit off. I'm willing to bet that the effect would not be slowing down, but would be ambushes, traps, and a whole lot of bloodshed.

For everyone's sake, I hope I'm never able to collect from LEO229 on this one.
I have two guns in the upstairs bedroom.. easy access wall mounted strong box.

Come on in!! :lol:

This is not that soft of a target. ;)
 
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