Carrying on a motorcycle re-hash

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A post in the Oregon forum got me to thinking and doing some research. that post quoted RCW 77.15.460 which states in part (emphasis mine):

(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and

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Please note the bolded part. They make a specific point to mention BOTH in and on. However in RCW 9.41.050 which states in part (again, emphasis mine):

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol

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This time they don't mention ON, only IN. Could this be significant? Who knows, but it would make for some good arguments if they attempt to cite someone for OCing a pistol. (Can't be a longgun as that's covered in 77.15.460)

Just some food for thought.

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Even though this only really affects a handful of people, it is a very relivant and important question. I would stick to the safe side by not OCing on a motorcycle without my CPL, but that's just me. I think it would be good to get an AG opinion on this, or something. I doubt there is a legal deffinition of "in". Who knows. Maybe. Look under the deffinitions in the driving laws, there may be something there.

It seems to me that the way the law is written, you could carry ON a motorcycle, but I bet you a police officer would misinterpret the law, and I bet you a judge would agree with the officer. You might be able to beat it in appeals, but who really wants to go that far?

Probably a better idea to get an AG opinion.

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I have been reading the sections just today and from what I can determine the hunting regulations apply only to long guns, rifle and shotguns. The " person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol" refers specifically to pistol and it is a CPL that Washington issues that provides for the exemptions that allow us to carry loaded pistols in cars.

There is no exemption that I can find regarding long guns in or on vehicles other than:

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[/b](1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:

(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and

(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if the person negligently shoots a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway.

(3) Unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle or unlawful use of a loaded firearm is a misdemeanor.

(4) This section does not apply if the person:

(a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;

(b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities.

(5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.

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The point of the hunting regulation is to forbid people from carrying loaded rifles/shotguns ON an atv and IN a car.

I think we already hashed it out pretty well before on the definition of in a vehicle. I think this extra law that adds ON is more evidence that we were correct when we figured the law meant IN and that you can't be IN a motorcycle.

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Gray2Hairs wrote:

I have been reading the sections just today and from what I can determine the hunting regulations apply only to long guns, rifle and shotguns.

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You are correct that 77.15 applies to hunting (Fish and Wildlife Code). I'm just curious as to the wording in both circumstances. One specifically mentions ON and IN. The other only specifies IN.

As expvideo states probably wouldn't get you out of a ticket, but might work in court. BOY I wish I was rich, I'd love to challenge all of these ambiguous laws.

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joshmmm wrote:

The point of the hunting regulation is to forbid people from carrying loaded rifles/shotguns ON an atv and IN a car.

I think we already hashed it out pretty well before on the definition of in a vehicle. I think this extra law that adds ON is more evidence that we were correct when we figured the law meant IN and that you can't be IN a motorcycle.

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Which would then mean that 9.41.050 does not apply to one ON a motorcycle. I thought I remembered that the conclusion drawn was that it did.

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It seems the only way to write a law that is simple and effective is to say you can "carry a gun in any manner orlocation for any legal purpose".

That is one I would be happy with

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Gray2Hairs wrote:

It seems the only way to write a law that is simple and effective is to say you can "carry a gun in any manner orlocation for any legal purpose".

That is one I would be happy with

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LOL, this discussion is for Washington State, not Planet Neptune. I'd be happy with that law too, and it sounds strikingly like the 2nd amendment, but there is no way we'll ever see that law on the books. At least not in my lifetime.



As an interesting side note, you can keep a loaded AR15 pistol (or any other "assault" pistol) in your car, if you want to have rifle firepower, but don't want to have to keep the ammunition separate. Rifles are defined as fired from the shoulder, so as long as it's one of those nifty littlebushmaster pistols (or something like that), you can have a semi-auto "rifle" with a loaded magazine, and you can legally conceal it or open carry it (although that may cause more negative PR than positive).

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While my 1911 is getting refinished I have been carrying a Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" in ruger 480. Although it is big few mention it or look at it. I guess thats because I carry it in a camo holster on my belt.

I kinda like the AR15 pistol concept...got a CCW holster for it?

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Gray2Hairs wrote:

(5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.

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Does this mean that if I insert a magazine into my M-14, rack the bolt to chamber a round, then remove the magazine, that my M-14 is no longer loaded? That is an interesting statement in the RCW. Shows an ignorance of guns by the author, not to mention the incorrect use of the word "clip" to mean magazine.

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It says "magazine or chamber". Seems like that means unloaed.

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expvideo wrote:

Gray2Hairs wrote:

It seems the only way to write a law that is simple and effective is to say you can "carry a gun in any manner orlocation for any legal purpose".

That is one I would be happy with

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LOL, this discussion is for Washington State, not Planet Neptune. I'd be happy with that law too, and it sounds strikingly like the 2nd amendment, but there is no way we'll ever see that law on the books. At least not in my lifetime.

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Ok, I have to be the wet blanket on this party... LOL

Actually I wouldn't like that law. A law should exist to forbid something. To tell us what we should NOT do, not tell us what we CAN do.

If they pass a law saying we can carry a firearm, then it becomes a priveledge, not a right. And I don't want any more of that than already exists. What *I* would support is this.

Repeal all existing firearm laws.

Create one law. RCW 9.41.1: It shall be unlawful for anyone to use a firearm in the commision of a crime. Doing this is a felony.

Period, end of statement.

Unfortunately that moves us from Planet Neptune to ex-Planet Pluto!

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heresolong wrote:

Gray2Hairs wrote:

(5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.

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Does this mean that if I insert a magazine into my M-14, rack the bolt to chamber a round, then remove the magazine, that my M-14 is no longer loaded?

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No, read (1b)...

(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber,

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Thus once you put a round in the chamber of your M-14 you are in violation of 1b. Regardless of whether there is a magazine attached or not.

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I hate to jump into this forum and my first question being to show my ignorance, but I guess it's better than showing some other trates.

I've been in the gun culture for a lot of years and haven't know the difference between a magazine and a clip. Please let me know.

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WhiteCobra wrote:

I hate to jump into this forum and my first question being to show my ignorance, but I guess it's better than showing some other trates.

I've been in the gun culture for a lot of years and haven't know the difference between a magazine and a clip. Please let me know.

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Saying "clip" will get you flamed, and saying "magazine" won't? :quirky

Seriously, I don't know though.....some people seem to think it makes you sound like a "gangsta" to say "clip"......it's just another way to describe the same dang thing......what started this issue with describing an "object to put bullets into to prepare them for insertion into a chamber of a firearm" being such a big deal?

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Thanks Comp,

I am a gangster if I say clip and military or militant if I say mag. or magazine.
Is that the way it is?

Well I guess I'll go watch a clip and read my magazine while waiting the answer.

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Just another related question.

Do the Muslim hold either one as "Holy"?

I don't want them having a protest and calling for my death if I say the wrong word.

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Magazine or Clip? Don't you just love how the english language attaches to slang so quickly?

Magazine - an oftenremovable and reusable "container of ammunition". For instance, the magazine on your M14, M1911, or 9mm.

Clip - literally a clip that holds ammunition and is integral to the function of the rifle (remains inside), often times the clip is inside of a magazine. For instance, the clips you use with your M1 Garand.

Charger - much like a clip, often called a stripper clip that just hold ammuntion and used to load the weapon. For instance, your broomhandle Mauser or M1903 Springfield.

It can be quite the pet peeve of us C&RFFLs to refer to these items incorrectly. *smile*


Gama

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I've had ffl and c&r and never entered into to that.
Thanks

Sometimes we must be very technical, I know, and just want to be "properly armed"

Enjoyed this forum for a little while and thought I would just dip in.

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P.S.

Don't forget the half moon "CLIPS"