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Thread: taser... again... for not pulling out license and registration...

  1. #1
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    ...quick enough

    http://www.statesman.com/news/mplayer/other/32386

    Holy crap. Ho-ly crap.

    (I guess it happened a year ago, a friend just sent it to me today because they just cleared him of all wrongdoing)
    I was confusing two separate news stories... this guy got suspended for 3 days. A civil suit is pending and he's sure to win.

    http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/opm/downl...nor_06-635.pdf
    "Officer O'Conner did not display an attitude consistent with Department policy and did not comply with the Department's policy regarding the use of his taser."
    further citing in the suspension order as to what he specifically did wrong:

    Unacceptable uses are: d. To overcome passive resistance (passive resistance means a subject offers no physical resistance to arrest, simply goes limp, and makes no overt act of aggressive behavior underline not mine as in demonstrations, e.g abortion rallies). The weapon is not designed for use as, nor will it be used as, a prod to get a suspect or prisoner to move in these types of situations.
    There is justice... or at least professional review.

    correct news link:
    http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...0930video.html
    -Unrequited

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    The problemlies somewhere in the realm of patience and compulsive demand for compliance. I can't quite put my finger on it.

    The officer ratchets up the demand very quickly. Its as though anything other than immediate submissive compliance annoys him. He makes absolutely no attempt to persuade the driver to comply, for example by gently or patiently reminding the driver that compliance is mandatory by law, or citing the consequences of refusal, etc.

    And then having, escalated the situation well beyond necessity, he tasers and arrests the individual. Note that the taser isn't for his safety. Its to gain compliance. The driver doesn't seem to be threatening him.Isn't there something about using the force necessary to overcome resistance?Is there notalsosome concept about using only the level of force necessary?

    Its almost as though, now that they have tasers,some officers resort to them almost immediately rather than other options.

    Perhaps because such officersthink that people should just immediately comply with their every demand just because they are police officers, regardless of the individual's perceptions. Do they really think that citizens of a free country aren't going to voice protest or complain about something they perceive unjust? Meekly submit? Do they really think that citizens of a free country might not need a little verbal reminding thatthey have to comply? A citizen whoNEVER has to complywith such orders in daily life, except in the rareevent the order is coming from a police officer. Wouldit not be appropriate to make some allowances for such unfamiliarity based on the rarityof the situation?

    Now I've put my finger on it. He gets mad because she doesn't immediately comply. He actually becomes angry. He loses control, not only of thesituation, but ofhimself.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Oh my, what I would say if I didn't think it would put me on one of Mr. Bush's no-rights lists...

    :shock:

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    I know a few officers from around here where I live, some who had been on the departments before they days of microphone and dash-cams. One officer up here, his grandfather, or father ended up winning the lottery, and paid his son/grandson some of his winnings so he could leave, as everyone is sue happy now over stuff, and if you touch someone you can now lose your job for it.

    Now obviously, in this case, the dash cam was helpful in showing that both the officers in these clips are beyond necessary force, and took improper steps to remedy the situation. What is even harder for me to comprehend, is that these guys must know that people won't stand for their harassment, and that they can pull these tapes. Do they actually believe that this type of force for immediate compliance is necessary...? Furthermore, why would you act this way -- knowing full and well that your actions are being recorded, people who are entrusted with these types of responsibilites need to hold themselves to a higher standard.

    I have no problem when force is used duly for compliance, but both of these guys really jumped the gun...

    I entirely agree with Citizen on this -- and the demand for immediate compliance.

    It seems as if they think that just because they have a badge that they think they can go around and intimidate and force people to comply at will. This gives police a bad name, you rarely hear of the good, but when something like this surfaces it spreads like wildfire. In the Utah incident, over 1 million people have already viewed it on YouTube.

    I can believe that guy was actually cleared... I don't know how a reasonable person could come to that conclusion after seeing the tape.

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    Bow to the ruling class.

    When the shooting starts how will you choose your targets?


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    I was confusing two separate news stories... this guy got suspended for 3 days. A civil suit is pending and he's sure to win.

    http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/opm/downl...nor_06-635.pdf
    "Officer O'Conner did not display an attitude consistent with Department policy and did not comply with the Department's policy regarding the use of his taser."
    further citing in the suspension order as to what he specifically did wrong:

    Unacceptable uses are: d. To overcome passive resistance (passive resistance means a subject offers no physical resistance to arrest, simply goes limp, and makes no overt act of aggressive behavior underline not mine as in demonstrations, e.g abortion rallies). The weapon is not designed for use as, nor will it be used as, a prod to get a suspect or prisoner to move in these types of situations.
    There is justice... or at least professional review.
    -Unrequited

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    Found his investigation interview, and he blames it on what I guess is hypoglycemia (redacted for medical privay on page 11):

    http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/..._affidavit.pdf

    O'Conner: "I agree that, yeah. I could have talked to him longer. Maybe I did come across as abrupt. It's 1:10 in the afternoon, and I have XXXXXXX so I hadn't eaten. And that is a problem when you get XXXXXXXXXXXX is you're, it makes you kind of edgy.
    Boyd: Okay.
    O'Conner: So that may have played into it."

    ...

    "Boyd: Okay. Can you explain why it seemed like you were kind of hurrying through this stop, instead of um, taking your time and talking to him or the passengers about you know, when they're griping about 5 miles over?
    O'Connor: It was a busy day. I was trying to clear calls..."
    -Unrequited

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    http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories...1277fb54a.html

    Police chief said this past September:
    "In circumstances like this, we will hold people accountable and the penalty will be very severe...

    ...

    Take a real hard look inside of yourself and determine, am I that officer. Am I treating people that way for a minor traffic violation, and if you are please change your behavior...
    Just sounds like one bad apple which got squared away. I'm sure next time Officer O'Conner will have a sandwich when his sugar's getting low and hold off a sec on the taser.
    -Unrequited

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    Look at the trend lately for police to wear military type uniforms. Bloused pants in boots, green fatigue style pants and shirts. It's all to get you used to seeing that image enforcing the law. I can't wait until this happens and a group of people jump in and help the person.

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    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    can't wait until this happens and a group of people jump in and help the person.
    You really think that's gonna happen? Too many Americans are scared silly to get involved with anything nowadays. See a woman being raped in a park? Run the opposite direction and call 911! You get the point...

    I think it's disturbing that LEO's feel they can assault citizens with tasers because they are not getting the compliance they feel is due. I'm also re-thinking what I will do should a LEO ever ask me to "step out of my car" but does not tell me I'm under arrest. (all of the taserings I have seen have occured directly after being told to leave the vehicle) Would it be prudent to lock doors, roll windows up, turn engine off, and tell the LEO to call a supervisor who is not displaying an attitude problem?

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    can't wait until this happens and a group of people jump in and help the person.
    You really think that's gonna happen? Too many Americans are scared silly to get involved with anything nowadays. See a woman being raped in a park? Run the opposite direction and call 911! You get the point...

    I think it's disturbing that LEO's feel they can assault citizens with tasers because they are not getting the compliance they feel is due. I'm also re-thinking what I will do should a LEO ever ask me to "step out of my car" but does not tell me I'm under arrest. (all of the taserings I have seen have occured directly after being told to leave the vehicle) Would it be prudent to lock doors, roll windows up, turn engine off, and tell the LEO to call a supervisor who is not displaying an attitude problem?
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?

    As for why they continue to do this with full knowledge of being on a dash cam, the only explanation I can think of is that they truly believed that they were doing nothing wrong... that torturing a person to gain cooperation is justified, and that any reasonable person would agree.

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    I'm also re-thinking what I will do should a LEO ever ask me to "step out of my car" but does not tell me I'm under arrest. (all of the taserings I have seen have occured directly after being told to leave the vehicle)
    Premeditated

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    GLENGLOCKER,

    I always thought that the MA state police looked like Nazis...with those weird hats and such. What terrible uniforms.

    But probably too manycops/people have trouble properly handling their power/authority over others...probably due to borderline mental disorders.

    Still, I must admit that when I was in the classroom, I did not AT ALL take kindly to insubordinate students...but enough said on that (retired now).

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?

    As for why they continue to do this with full knowledge of being on a dash cam, the only explanation I can think of is that they truly believed that they were doing nothing wrong... that torturing a person to gain cooperation is justified, and that any reasonable person would agree.
    I disagree, cops are human beings and like most they forget that the camera is running. It's like looking for your keys and they werein your hand the hole time.

    The cop in the first video, I bet, it dawned on him after standing there that amount of time thought, OH S&*T the dash cam is running.

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    They aren't concerned with the dash cam because they don't think they are doing anything wrong.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    They aren't concerned with the dash cam because they don't think they are doing anything wrong.
    Exactly. They really think anyone who has a problem with this is just a whiner. That's their outlook. Their department will back them up pretty much no matter what. They don't care.

  17. #17
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    patriot308 wrote:
    Bow to the ruling class.

    When the shooting starts how will you choose your targets?

    What shooting is that?

  18. #18
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?
    You really think he's gonna shoot you for rolling your window up and locking your door?



  19. #19
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:*
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?
    You really think he's gonna shoot you for rolling your window up and locking your door?
    It's so messed up that we're even having a conversation entertaining the idea... but if you did that, you'd have, no mic recording you (besides your own obviously), no dashcam to see that your hands were on the steering wheel instead of reaching for a weapon, and no defense that you weren't going to start your car and start driving away.

    Plus there's always the nightstick through the window and glass embedded in your face thing.

    This guy was obviously off his meds that day, and I doubt that other cops aren't just as embarassed as we are mad. It's just that when you offer a LTL weapon like a taser without emphasizing it's risks, danger, and responsibility, it becomes a quick way for a lazy, scared, hypoglycemic, or just plain dirty cop to skip right to it.

    My cop friend on NYPD said he'd get crucified if he ever did this, and everybody's talking about it in his station.
    -Unrequited

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?
    You really think he's gonna shoot you for rolling your window up and locking your door?
    You should chat with the Tony's 7 about the anger-management problem of the first officer to arrive on the scene. (Really, this statement is just a rhetorical device.)

    The fact is, some are capable of it. I wouldn't want to find out if I was in the non-consensual company of one of them.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    Citizen wrote:
    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Then you might get shot through the window with the officer's other gun?
    You really think he's gonna shoot you for rolling your window up and locking your door?
    You should chat with the Tony's 7 about the anger-management problem of the first officer to arrive on the scene.
    Fortunately the Tony's 7 guys were cool, calm and composed. The open carry advocate group was represented quite well by those guys. They acquitted themselves extremely well in the face of that bulldog LEO, Ricky Clodfelter.

    A tip o' the hat again to those 7 guys....

  22. #22
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    The NJ State Gestapo always looked like Waffen SS in blue. Heh, and they act like it! I remember when combat boots on an officer was only seen in special tactics teams, and roadside truck inspectors. Now they all wear them.
    Three freakin days....woop dee doo....that'll learn'em..

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