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Thread: Lasers

  1. #1
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    What do you guys think of laser sights for defense pistols, usefull, neccesarry, not worth it? I ask because I think of people reporting "not seeing the sights" in a shooting situation. Wouldnt this make things easier, at least in low light?

    I am thinking of a lasermax guide pin sight for my xd.45 but its spendy

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    jonnyjeeps wrote:
    What do you guys think of laser sights for defense pistols, usefull, neccesarry, not worth it? I ask because I think of people reporting "not seeing the sights" in a shooting situation. Wouldnt this make things easier, at least in low light?

    I am thinking of a lasermax guide pin sight for my xd.45 but its spendy
    I use Crimson Trace grips on several of my guns, including my carry guns. With the personal defense guns, I don't even practice with iron sights anymore.

    I think that when you go laser for a personal defense gun you're probably better off committing exclusively to point shooting using the laser.

    Good luck with your decision.

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    I would recommend a strobing laser. It makes for faster target aquisition, because your eyes more easily pick up the location of the laser when it is blinking. I've always thought that a laser is a pretty good idea, but if you are going to become dependant on an electric device, make sure you keep the batteries up to date. The problem is that with a lot of laser grips and such products, if you set the gun down on the wrong side, the button will be pushed, and your battery will be drained. So suddenly you have a dead battery, while at the same time you are not used to using your iron sights... I doubt that could lead to anything positive. I would recommend getting a laser, provided that when you practice at the range you still use your iron sights, in conjunction with your laser, so that you don't get accustomed to relying on a battery operated device.

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    Just to add an alternate opinion, I don't think lasers are all that necessary. It's been thoroughly proven that, with practice, you can point-shoot VERY accurately w/o sights, especially at self-defense ranges. Point shooting is also going to be faster than drawing, finding the laser dot, then firing. In fact, you'll essentially be point shooting anyway just to get the laser on target.

    Lasers on handguns seem to be more practical for three main things: acquiring multiple targets in low light, firing a handgun accuratelyat longer distances, and infrared lasers that let you see where you're shooting while wearing NVGs. It seems to me that laser sights are more useful in military type situations than they would be in a self defense situation.

    Now this isn't to say that I don't like lasers. They're great for practicing point shooting (you can literally practice in your home). They could be more intimidating to a BG, and they can add confidence with less experienced shooters. They can also allow a person with almost NO shooting experience to manage a successful self defense shot if necessary. I just don't think they're as much as an improvement as some people think.

    I'll probably have a laser for my shotgun and a handgun or two some day. More so as a novelty fun thing to use at the range than anything. I sure don't need one to shoot well .

    Just my 2 cents.

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    I sell quite a few Crimson trace grips, BUT I discourage their use for shooters with Little experience. I believe that one can become dependent upon a device rather than become proficient with the use of training and muscle memory.

    Laser sights have their place, but not for those with Little experience. you are building false security with their use. Learn, train the proper way and then, if you must, get a laser.


    YMMV

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I sell quite a few Crimson trace grips, BUT I discourage their use for shooters with Little experience. I believe that one can become dependent upon a device rather than become proficient with the use of training and muscle memory.

    Laser sights have their place, but not for those with Little experience. you are building false security with their use. Learn, train the proper way and then, if you must, get a laser.


    YMMV
    Very well put! That was the other point I was trying to make, lol. You gotta be able to shoot w/o a laser before you start shooting with one. And at that point, why do you need the laser if you can already shoot?

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    DreQo wrote:
    Very well put! That was the other point I was trying to make, lol. You gotta be able to shoot w/o a laser before you start shooting with one. And at that point, why do you need the laser if you can already shoot?
    Because it helps to gain compliance from the burglar. He sees a red dot on his chest and takes it a little more seriously than just pointing the gun at him. At least that's what CTC will tell you

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    Lasers also help you correct flinching and such while practicing at the range. You'll see the dot move and can work on overcoming it.

    As has been said, it's not to be relied-upon, but is a great aid in target aquisition. Just don't go with a rail-mounted one, as that makes your options for holsters limited; go for grip-integrated, such as Crimson Trace.

    I also highly recommend them for wheelguns that have a heavy triggerpull, since a heavy trigger can make you go off-target from your muscles tensing.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    I have tried several different brands, and can say there is a difference in the brightness of the dots. As far as iron sights go, I still use them first. I agree that you should not become dependent on the laser dot. The reason being is that in the day the laser is useless as it is washed out by daylight and especially sunshine.

    The only time it becomes useful is from dusk to darkness. You still have another option though, which is a good set of tritium sights. I have a set of the lasergrips on my primary off duty carry gun, and theyhavethe brightest laser I have seen yet. At night it can be seen several hundred yards away. At night I feel that the laser can put you on target faster than even tritium sights, and yes the intimidation factor is another strong point.

    More importantly at night is a good flashlight, either mountedon the pistol or in your pocket. Remember, if you can't positively identify your target you better not shoot it.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Lasers are great for playing with the cat. As a defense tool they give the enemy an aiming point to shoot at and identify you as a priority target. Like any device they can fail. If you delay to shoot to see the dot, you are giving up the 10's of a second to down your opponent. My I suggest reading "No Second Place Winner" by Jordan. If you want to project something, use lead rather than photons.

    (Can you tell I have an opinion!)

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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    If you want to project something, use lead rather than photons.
    Unless of course those photons are projected at a quantity, wavelength, and over-all energy that will cause extreme bodilyharm or death. I'd carry that over a projectile weapon any day .

    Boy that'll be the day. 12 page arguments on OCDO about which is a better sidearm: .45 1911 or a hand-held directed energy weapon lol.

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    Boy that'll be the day. 12 page arguments on OCDO about which is a better sidearm: .45 1911 or a hand-held directed energy weapon lol.


    Ok, you got me there. I might give up my S&W 29 for a "Phased Plasma weapon in the 40 watt range".

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    lasers are for people who can't aim.

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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    lasers are for people who can't aim.
    This is an interesting statement. For even if you are right, you're still wrong.



    Anway, I aim purty good with my laser.




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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    Boy that'll be the day. 12 page arguments on OCDO about which is a better sidearm: .45 1911 or a hand-held directed energy weapon lol.


    Ok, you got me there. I might give up my S&W 29 for a "Phased Plasma weapon in the 40 watt range".
    I set my phaser to "extra crispy"!

    In reality though, I could see us having PPG style weapons, like those from Babylon 5 within 50-100 years.

    http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/weapo...ppgpistol.html

    You would have LTL and lethal options all in one package.

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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    Lasers are great for playing with the cat. As a defense tool they give the enemy an aiming point to shoot at and identify you as a priority target. Like any device they can fail. If you delay to shoot to see the dot, you are giving up the 10's of a second to down your opponent. My I suggest reading "No Second Place Winner" by Jordan. If you want to project something, use lead rather than photons.

    (Can you tell I have an opinion!)
    I can't count how many evenings I've spent amusing myself and my GF playing "cats n' lasers". I don't have a laser on my weapons, just one for messing with the cat.


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    ROTFLMAO
    Cats and lasers are fun. I have spent a lot of time and busted a gut over cats chasing laser dots. Plus it is a good workout for kitty.

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    A while back at a gunshow I picked up a small flashlight that had the bulb at the end of a flexible cable (good for checking a barrel bore) and it also has a red laser that works really well. Price: $5.

    So, I'm wondering why the Crimson Trace grips cost $150 to $230 new.... :X





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    HankT wrote:
    A while back at a gunshow I picked up a small flashlight that had the bulb at the end of a flexible cable (good for checking a barrel bore) and it also has a red laser that works really well. Price: $5.

    So, I'm wondering why the Crimson Trace grips cost $150 to $230 new.... :X



    Believe it or not, crimson trace grips aren't over-priced. They make their profit like any business should, but thats about it. The laser units in crimson trace grips (and most good weapon mounted lasers) are NOT the same as the $5 laser you can buy at wal-mart. Laser sight lasers are designed and built to take the shock of the weapon firing. A cheap laser can't...it'll apart. Also, good laser sights are strobing for quicker sight acquisition.

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    lasers, well i have one for a gun... after doing some shooting with a buddy and his tacticool m4, i had to "get my carbine up to grade" (m1 that is).

    bipod, rails, light, laser.... (don't worry, no parts touching anything that could be scratched, lots of pads keeping the gun safe).


    i find it entertaining.... but one more thing to pay attention to, wouldn't want one for anything but shooting cans.

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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    lasers are for people who can't aim.
    You're more right than you know.

    One of the advantages of a laser is being able to shoot from positions where you can't bring the sights up to eye level. Suddenly its very easy to be on-target with the weapon tucked in a close retention position. You can shoot to the rear while moving towards cover; you can shoot from the waist, perhaps knocked onto your back by an assailant. I'll bet there is a list of possible shooting positions.

    Also, I was pleasantly surprised to discover a laser's contribution to dry-fire practice and trigger control. That little red dotreally shows how much you move the gun when you pull the trigger.

    My laser came with a video. I follow its advice and practice bringing the sights up to almost eye level so if the laser fails, I don't have far to move the gun or tuck my chin to be looking through the sights.
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    I practice shot with and without laser sights regularly. I own Crimson Trace and am very pleased with the quality and accuracy.

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    just got done duct taping a laser (keychain laser, to play with the cat) to my gun for the original nintendo.... duck hunt sure was easier.

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    HankT wrote:
    I use Crimson Trace grips on several of my guns, including my carry guns.
    :shock:

    Did anybody else notice this???

    I think this might be the first timeHankT has admitted to carrying!

    Now if we could just get an answer to that pesky he or she question. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Why does everyone seem to overlook the biggest advantage of a weapon mounted laser?

    When youare holding an intruder/attacker at gunpoint, it's much, Much, MUCH, MUCH easier to keep that little dot trained on them while you are dialing 911 for help than it is to keep referring to your front sight.

    And THEY also know that your muzzle is still pointing right at THEM. There's never any doubt as to whether you still have them covered or not. Did I mention it's MUCH easier?



    Lasers are also great for acquiring the target but for actual shooting your sights are a much better tool. Because due to the way they are mounted,your sights will always be more accurate (closer to POI)than the laser.

    Lasers are a good tool to have, but they areNOT a crutch. Learn to shoot properly. With and without the laser. You still have to have a proper grip and good trigger control or you're going to miss. Remember the laser is just a sighting tool, but your bullets CAN'T see it.
    Learn to shoot.

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