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New Taser Shotgun Shell

openryan

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expvideo wrote:
openryan wrote:
expvideo wrote:
On the brite side, a 2.4 gram projectile travelling 300 feet per second produces an extremely low amount of energy. So there would be very few deaths from impact alone
300 fps ~ 204.54 mph
7.4004 foot lbs

a 9mm 127 grain bullet travelling 1000 fps has about 281 foot lbs

Whereas a Daisy Red Rider BB gun, firing a 5.1 grain .177 bb at 350 fps (an astonishing238.636 mph) only hits in at 1.387 foot lbs.

Velocity means nothing without mass.




calculator
lol -- i know :p i was traying to make the same point you were!
 

openryan

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openryan wrote:
expvideo wrote:
openryan wrote:
expvideo wrote:
On the brite side, a 2.4 gram projectile travelling 300 feet per second produces an extremely low amount of energy. So there would be very few deaths from impact alone
300 fps ~ 204.54 mph
7.4004 foot lbs

a 9mm 127 grain bullet travelling 1000 fps has about 281 foot lbs

Whereas a Daisy Red Rider BB gun, firing a 5.1 grain .177 bb at 350 fps (an astonishing238.636 mph) only hits in at 1.387 foot lbs.

Velocity means nothing without mass.




calculator
lol -- i know :p i was traying to make the same point you were!
wait 2.4 grams, thats just the weight of the computer chip or "engine" I thought the whole thing weighed 14 grams...? No? (which would be `43 ft. lbs.)
 

expvideo

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openryan wrote:
wait 2.4 grams, thats just the weight of the computer chip or "engine" I thought the whole thing weighed 14 grams...? No? (which would be `43 ft. lbs.)
I see what you are saying, but I think the "engine" refers to pretty much the whole thing, not just the chip, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source for the 14 grams? I don't mean to be apest, I just don'thave much info on this, and I'm trying to figure this out, because you are right that 14 grams would be a much different story, and would result in a lot moreaccidental deaths.
 

openryan

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expvideo wrote:
openryan wrote:
wait 2.4 grams, thats just the weight of the computer chip or "engine" I thought the whole thing weighed 14 grams...? No? (which would be `43 ft. lbs.)
I see what you are saying, but I think the "engine" refers to pretty much the whole thing, not just the chip, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source for the 14 grams? I don't mean to be apest, I just don'thave much info on this, and I'm trying to figure this out, because you are right that 14 grams would be a much different story, and would result in a lot moreaccidental deaths.
Video: http://www2.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56

I don't know how it could be accurate at 2.4 grams with those wings it has... the video says 14 gram self contained projectile...

I dont know much about it either though, but I remember seeing 14 grams in a couple of places, this video says it as well (above)

When it hits the target it is probably somewhere between the two figures I would think.
 

openryan

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I just called TASER Int. and reached (Joe Drucker), I got transferred around a lot, nobody seemed to know, so I got his voice mail. I left a message and a call back number, they told me that he would probably be out, but he does return phone calls.

Hopefully I will have a hard answer for you soon!


TASER
Main: (480) 905-2000
 

expvideo

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openryan wrote:
I just called TASER Int. and reached (Joe Drucker), I got transferred around a lot, nobody seemed to know, so I got his voice mail. I left a message and a call back number, they told me that he would probably be out, but he does return phone calls.

Hopefully I will have a hard answer for you soon!

You're going way out of your way, thank you for doing that. Anyway, let's go on the assumption that you are right, because of the video, and the 2.4 grams probably reffers to the electronics of the device. Anyway, if that is the case, at close range this could be very dangerous. Especially at point blank range, and I imagine there will be some cases of over zealous police officers pumping one or probably more into someone that's already on the ground. Not for officer safety, but for "non-compliance".
 

openryan

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expvideo wrote:
openryan wrote:
I just called TASER Int. and reached (Joe Drucker), I got transferred around a lot, nobody seemed to know, so I got his voice mail. I left a message and a call back number, they told me that he would probably be out, but he does return phone calls.

Hopefully I will have a hard answer for you soon!

You're going way out of your way, thank you for doing that. Anyway, let's go on the assumption that you are right, because of the video, and the 2.4 grams probably reffers to the electronics of the device. Anyway, if that is the case, at close range this could be very dangerous. Especially at point blank range, and I imagine there will be some cases of over zealous police officers pumping one or probably more into someone that's already on the ground. Not for officer safety, but for "non-compliance".
Yeah, but I just realized something... in the videos they talk about a series of crash pins, and that front little electrode piece doesn't weigh much, so even if it is 14 grams, the engine and everything else falls away from the electrodes as soon as it impacts...

Would 14g @ 300 f/sec and 43ft/lbs penetrate skin at 100 feet? How much damage would it cause?

I'd like to see one of these fired from about 2 feet away into some ballistic gel and see the results.
 

G20-IWB24/7

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I know I'll get flamed for this, but is it always a cops vs. citizens issue? I am friends with a lot of cops, and they are all around good guys, just trying to do a job that many people couldn't and wouldn't do, and trying not to get killed in the process.

"No reason for this than to strip people of their liberty.." (paraphrasing) ???? Huh? Once you're the electronics shop owner on a street where 5,000 rioting soccer fans are lighting cars on fire, knocking over street lights and looting your family's only source of income, then come and tell me that a tool that these cops could use to protect your property is only to take away their liberty.

Gimme a break. The cops are on my side until they prove that they're not on my side. (And the only time I've ever been pulled over was while I wasactually speeding, breaking the law, and I deserved it!) As far as I'm concerned they're innocent until proven guilty. Are you holding them to a higher standard than what they hold you to???
 

Citizen

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G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
I know I'll get flamed for this, but is it always a cops vs. citizens issue?
No, but it sure seems that way sometimes.

The problem is that forum members have met the cops you haven't--the ugly, nasty, self-important, rights-bashing, "I am the Law!" ones you've been fortunate not to meet.

Also,some here see the steady deterioration of Rights and are not happy with it. Itdoesn't help police when theycan point a finger and say, "Aha! You, sir, are an agent, a concrete example,of the deterioration that I have seen."

Some are better at remembering there are good cops. Some aren't so good at it.
 

G20-IWB24/7

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Just keep in mind, amongst all of this cop-bashing that they are by definition: "LAW ENFORCEMENT." Which mean that they don'tmake the law, they just "enforce" it. If you don't like the law, don't keep electing the idiots that are putting the stupid laws in place! (That's comment is directed generally, not specifically.)

I will agree that on occasion you'll have a cop that decides that he will be judge, jury and executioner, but they are NOT the rule, rather the EXCEPTION, and I think it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove that they are the exception.JUST MY OPINION, AND I KNOW OTHERS WILL VARY. But that's what makes this country great.

When I hear the word "gestapo" used, or hear those jokes about donut shops or whatever,I just lose respect for the maturity level of somepeople.
 

Tomahawk

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xrep_banner05.jpg
 

Citizen

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G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
1) Just keep in mind, amongst all of this cop-bashing that they are by definition: "LAW ENFORCEMENT." Which mean that they don'tmake the law, they just "enforce" it. If you don't like the law, don't keep electing the idiots that are putting the stupid laws in place! (That's comment is directed generally, not specifically.)

2) I will agree that on occasion you'll have a cop that decides that he will be judge, jury and executioner, but they are NOT the rule, rather the EXCEPTION, and I think it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove that they are the exception.JUST MY OPINION, AND I KNOW OTHERS WILL VARY. But that's what makes this country great.

3) When I hear the word "gestapo" used, or hear those jokes about donut shops or whatever,I just lose respect for the maturity level of somepeople.

1) I used to agree with this to a certain degree. The degree nose-dived when another forum member pointed out that, by definition, a good police officer will enforce even the badlaws, whereby he aligns himself with the "King."

2) "The Blue Wall" of silence and mutual support is another aspect of this to take into account. If you get time, read through the events of the Tony's Incident in Manassas, VA. http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/mcpd.html One of the most eye-opening aspects of this incidentwas that perhaps only 3-4 police officers really did anything wrong, but all 7-8 officers involved apparently lied to cover it up. And the cover-up seemed to go all the way to the top, meaning the Chief seemed to turn a blind eye to obvious errors in the internal affairs report. Mainsail had a similar experience where one cop lied to protect another. Also, we have numerous examples of LEO's doing "more" than their job with gun owners--lectures against exercising 2A rights, unnecessary weapon removal and dissassembly, checking a serial number when invited into the home of a gun owner to take a complaint about a theft.The wife of one forummember was threatened with a black mark on her driver's license for not notifying theofficer she was carrying despite there being no legal basis for the threat nor anystatutory violation by the wife. We have encountered a definite, broad, not isolated hostility by LEO's to 2A rights.

3)I agree. In the meantime I try to exercise patience.
 

openryan

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Citizen wrote:
G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
1) Just keep in mind, amongst all of this cop-bashing that they are by definition: "LAW ENFORCEMENT." Which mean that they don'tmake the law, they just "enforce" it. If you don't like the law, don't keep electing the idiots that are putting the stupid laws in place! (That's comment is directed generally, not specifically.)

2) I will agree that on occasion you'll have a cop that decides that he will be judge, jury and executioner, but they are NOT the rule, rather the EXCEPTION, and I think it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove that they are the exception.JUST MY OPINION, AND I KNOW OTHERS WILL VARY. But that's what makes this country great.

3) When I hear the word "gestapo" used, or hear those jokes about donut shops or whatever,I just lose respect for the maturity level of somepeople.

1) I used to agree with this to a certain degree. The degree nose-dived when another forum member pointed out that, by definition, a good police officer will enforce even the badlaws, whereby he aligns himself with the "King."

2) "The Blue Wall" of silence and mutual support is another aspect of this to take into account. If you get time, read through the events of the Tony's Incident in Manassas, VA. http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/mcpd.html One of the most eye-opening aspects of this incidentwas that perhaps only 3-4 police officers really did anything wrong, but all 7-8 officers involved apparently lied to cover it up. And the cover-up seemed to go all the way to the top, meaning the Chief seemed to turn a blind eye to obvious errors in the internal affairs report. Mainsail had a similar experience where one cop lied to protect another. Also, we have numerous examples of LEO's doing "more" than their job with gun owners--lectures against exercising 2A rights, unnecessary weapon removal and dissassembly, checking a serial number when invited into the home of a gun owner to take a complaint about a theft.The wife of one forummember was threatened with a black mark on her driver's license for not notifying theofficer she was carrying despite there being no legal basis for the threat nor anystatutory violation by the wife. We have encountered a definite, broad, not isolated hostility by LEO's to 2A rights.

3)I agree. In the meantime I try to exercise patience.
To say the least, the Tony's 7 was an interesting read. The smoke started coming out of my ears with this sentence:

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]In that call, he stated that there were 6 individuals (he apparently couldn't count) who were carrying guns and that he wasn't "comfortable with that". He acknowledged to the 911 call taker that we probably were legal and weren't doing anything wrong.
[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Sounds like he should have called his state rep's rather than 911 on this issue. And if he wasn't comfortable with it, why did he spend an hour eating his meal there!?!:?

Thanks for the link, Citizen, were you one of the 7?
[/font]
 
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