Springfield Mall murder on Sunday...

peter nap · Dec 6, 2007

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f it was one gangbanger knocking off another gangbanger and both were not what one might think of as "model citizens", why would anyone lose any sleep over it? Unless, of course an innocent person or someone's property was a secondary recipient of the incident. Do we really care if two criminals decide to kill one another?

+1
Yep.....gene pool is a little cleaner and one less toad breathing my O2.
Once again, I can't figure how 229 got thumped. The idea of carrying a weapon is to protect yourself. I wasn't aware anyone here expected the police to protect you.
If you can't carry there and your not willing to do it anyway,,,don't go there.

deepdiver · Dec 6, 2007

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hsmith wrote:

Click to expand...

*snip*
We have bigger problems in the state other than speeders, we have MS-13.

Sorry if I'd rather police be fighting gangs compared to issuing $3000 tickets because the Legislature is to chicken shit to bring up the issue of budget cuts or tax increases.

$3000 ticket for what? Speeding???

Tomahawk · Dec 6, 2007

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deepdiver wrote:

hsmith wrote:

Click to expand...

*snip*
We have bigger problems in the state other than speeders, we have MS-13.

Sorry if I'd rather police be fighting gangs compared to issuing $3000 tickets because the Legislature is to chicken shit to bring up the issue of budget cuts or tax increases.

Click to expand...

$3000 ticket for what? Speeding???

It's a long story, and off-topic, but the short version is that the legislature came up with a way to grub more money without raising taxes: charge VA drivers huge fees for traffic offenses. Look it up.

30 cal slut · Dec 6, 2007

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i would be in support of an open season on ms-13 and all related scum starting on christmas eve.

no bag limit, no restriction on methods (full auto and suppressed okay, 40 mm bloop tubes okay, all centerfire and rimfire rifles okay, rusty plastic cutlery okay, crossbows okay, field points and broadheads okay, and smothering by Oprah okay).

:idea::celebrate:idea:

dkd · Dec 7, 2007

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30 cal slut wrote:

i would be in support of an open season on ms-13 and all related scum starting on christmas eve.

no bag limit, no restriction on methods (full auto and suppressed okay, 40 mm bloop tubes okay, all centerfire and rimfire rifles okay, rusty plastic cutlery okay, crossbows okay, field points and broadheads okay, and smothering by Oprah okay).

:idea::celebrate:idea:

once again the death squad type talk has crept into the conversation..most start to get nervous and moves into "condtion red" at the sight of a "gangbanger type" but theyre always ready to "take out the trash/scum......yea right, smh

AbNo · Dec 10, 2007

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Tomahawk wrote:a

How quickly a thread about a mall shooting turns into a LEO-bashing thread.

Jeez, really.

Is it THAT HARD to stay on topic?

You want to jump all over the cops? What about the SF Mall management that made another Unarmed Victim Zone?

Why don't you complain about the shooting gallery they've made the mall into?

deircrfan · Dec 10, 2007

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LEO 229, I am assuming you are law enforcement, so I want to thank you for your service to the community, be it local or state police. If you are not law enforcement and your name is LEO, then thanks for so many posts. As you can see, I do not make many posts (I think my first may have been last night when I started a thread about carrying where there are "no carry" signs. Anyway, law enforcement have a tough job, one minute you are writing a ticket and the next you could be in a deadly shootout.

Side note...I take the "229" means a Sig P229, correct? Are .357 sig, .40 S&W, or 9mm?

Slowhand · Dec 11, 2007

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I agree that LEOs can't be everywhere. Remember, when seconds count, the Police are only minutes away. I blame the property owners (Springfield Mall / Potomac Mills Mall) for not allowing law-abiding citizens to carry weapons for protection. They are the people that should be hauled into civil court and fined LARGE amounts of money when citizens are harmed by their fear and paranoia of lawfully armed citizens. Maybe then they would see the light. Had that woman not gunned down that maniac in the church he would most likely have killed MANY more people.

LEO 229 · Dec 11, 2007

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deircrfan wrote:

LEO 229, I am assuming you are law enforcement, so I want to thank you for your service to the community, be it local or state police. If you are not law enforcement and your name is LEO, then thanks for so many posts. As you can see, I do not make many posts (I think my first may have been last night when I started a thread about carrying where there are "no carry" signs. Anyway, law enforcement have a tough job, one minute you are writing a ticket and the next you could be in a deadly shootout.

Side note...I take the "229" means a Sig P229, correct? Are .357 sig, .40 S&W, or 9mm?

Thanks for the kind words... I get many words here and not many are all that kind.. :lol: But it is all good!!!

I own a Sig 229 9MM and love it!

xd.40 · Dec 11, 2007

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Hey LEO, if you don't mind me asking, is that your on duty or off duty weapon of choice? Or both?

LEO 229 · Dec 11, 2007

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Slowhand wrote:

I agree that LEOs can't be everywhere. Remember, when seconds count, the Police are only minutes away. I blame the property owners (Springfield Mall / Potomac Mills Mall) for not allowing law-abiding citizens to carry weapons for protection. They are the people that should be hauled into civil court and fined LARGE amounts of money when citizens are harmed by their fear and paranoia of lawfully armed citizens. Maybe then they would see the light. Had that woman not gunned down that maniac in the church he would most likely have killed MANY more people.

I think it would be hard to hold someone responsible for the acts of another if you go there voluntarily.

As a business owner... I really do not care about your need to be armed or you protecting yourself from threats real or imagined. I want your money so my business can thrive and survive.

I would never post a sign banning guns but if I had more customers scared of guns than gun packing customers... I am going to have to ban the guns.

It is just like restaurants that post "smoke free".... If the people like this and my sign brings them in... I win!!!

The real question is why would the mall do it? I can only imagine that they do it to make it "appear" as if it is a "safe environment" for customers. We all know that this is far from the truth.

massltca · Dec 11, 2007

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SouthernBoy wrote:

If it was one gangbanger knocking off another gangbanger and both were not what one might think of as "model citizens", why would anyone lose any sleep over it? Unless, of course an innocent person or someone's property was a secondary recipient of the incident. Do we really care if two criminals decide to kill one another?

Nope, I could care less if criminals kill each other. But if they do it where other innocent people could be caught in the crossfire then I have a big problem with that.

massltca · Dec 11, 2007

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Slowhand wrote:

I agree that LEOs can't be everywhere. Remember, when seconds count, the Police are only minutes away. I blame the property owners (Springfield Mall / Potomac Mills Mall) for not allowing law-abiding citizens to carry weapons for protection. They are the people that should be hauled into civil court and fined LARGE amounts of money when citizens are harmed by their fear and paranoia of lawfully armed citizens. Maybe then they would see the light. Had that woman not gunned down that maniac in the church he would most likely have killed MANY more people.

I agree, I support property rights but if a proprerty owner refuses to allow me to carry a weapon to protect myself then they should be liable for injuries/death as a result of criminal attacks.

Neplusultra · Dec 11, 2007

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LEO 229 wrote:

The real question is why would the mall do it? I can only imagine that they do it to make it "appear" as if it is a "safe environment" for customers. We all know that this is far from the truth.

I imagine it might also be increased liability insurance. Perhaps if the insurance companies were shown that CC weapons would "reduce" their risk they would raise their premiums if the mall posts "no gun" signs or has policies against carrying.

Just a thought. In fact that may be a good lobbying point for VCDL??? Find a mall that posts no guns, find their insurer and lobby the insurer......

AbNo · Dec 11, 2007

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:shock:

Briliant....

xd.40 · Dec 11, 2007

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Has someone emailed Mr. Van Cleave yet?

Citizen · Dec 11, 2007

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SouthernBoy wrote:

SNIPDo we really care if two criminals decide to kill one another?

Yes. They miss a lot. There have been a number of people killed or injured in DC--innocent bystanders.

Some have been kids. I remember one. A little kid in their living room. The criminal bullet came through the window. The little one died, if I recall.

LEO 229 · Dec 11, 2007

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Neplusultra wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The real question is why would the mall do it? I can only imagine that they do it to make it "appear" as if it is a "safe environment" for customers. We all know that this is far from the truth.

Click to expand...

I imagine it might also be increased liability insurance. Perhaps if the insurance companies were shown that CC weapons would "reduce" their risk they would raise their premiums if the mall posts "no gun" signs or has policies against carrying.

Just a thought. In fact that may be a good lobbying point for VCDL??? Find a mall that posts no guns, find their insurer and lobby the insurer......

Insurance companies are not likely to do that. The idea that weapons were constantly in usecould RAISE rates because of the cost to pay off wrongful death cases on the property.

I will have the ask the local range what their insurance price is per year. Mine was like $2,000 just for the property and injury coverage.

The insurance company is not going to give you a break on the idea that some people may possible be in the area at some point in time and may or may not take action against someone else.

Just too many variables involved.

stryth · Dec 11, 2007

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LEO 229 wrote:

The idea that weapons were constantly in usecould RAISE rates because of the cost to pay off wrongful death cases on the property.

In use?

Surely you mean in posession? Or are you suggesting that mall ranges be opened in the style of the shooting galleries of old?

Neplusultra · Dec 11, 2007

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stryth wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The idea that weapons were constantly in usecould RAISE rates because of the cost to pay off wrongful death cases on the property.

Click to expand...

In use?

Surely you mean in posession? Or are you suggesting that mall ranges be opened in the style of the shooting galleries of old?

There's an idea. That way all the crime would be restricted to the other end of the mall. Plus it would give me more reason to go malling.

Springfield Mall murder on Sunday...

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