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Thread: Why carry handcuffs when you can just use a zip tie?

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    I have seen quite a few people who post on these forums say that they carry handcuffs. Obviously it is legal to do this in most places, but does not the vast majority of public look on you guys with scorn? I know some of you like that, but I cannot imagine it being productive.

    Also, I think it is fairly easy to paint somebody carrying handcuffs in a SD situation as some kind of fanatic that was out looking for trouble.

    Why doesn't everyone just carry the thick type of zip tie? same effect as cuffs without the baggage.

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    What do you plan to do with the cuffs? Or a zip tie?

    Handcuffing someone who does not want to be cuffed is extremely difficult for the uninitiated.

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    Well, that's what we (customers) used after we ran down a Walmart shoplifter and had him on the ground...a salesguy from the next-door Home Depot brought some over to us.

    I remember thinking thatzip-ties could be quite handy in the future for similar situations.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Probably should have mentioned if I carried since it was my first post huh?

    Yes I carry a Glock 23c. I carry CC about 75% of the time but if I am going to a place where there will be a lot of Californians (I live in AZ) then I will OC. Trying to boost that number.

    I know that it is a small percentage of people on here that carry handcuffs, but I am commenting on my thought that we should be all carrying a couple thick zipties rather than cuffs or for restraits if we do not carry cuffs.

    I understand it is very difficult to restrain a resisting person, and the average person would not be able to do so unless assisted. I have experience here with wannabe purse snatcher (not my purse). I was assited. I always carry zipties now.

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    bbvk05 wrote:
    I have seen quite a few people who post on these forums say that they carry handcuffs. Obviously it is legal to do this in most places, but does not the vast majority of public look on you guys with scorn? I know some of you like that, but I cannot imagine it being productive.

    Also, I think it is fairly easy to paint somebody carrying handcuffs in a SD situation as some kind of fanatic that was out looking for trouble.

    Why doesn't everyone just carry the thick type of zip tie? same effect as cuffs without the baggage.
    Hay Yea That could work!

    Or how about if we just shoot them in the leg and then we don't have to waste our zip tie. not!



    Tarzan









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    bbvk05 wrote:
    I have seen quite a few people who post on these forums say that they carry handcuffs. Obviously it is legal to do this in most places, but does not the vast majority of public look on you guys with scorn? I know some of you like that, but I cannot imagine it being productive.

    Also, I think it is fairly easy to paint somebody carrying handcuffs in a SD situation as some kind of fanatic that was out looking for trouble.

    Why doesn't everyone just carry the thick type of zip tie? same effect as cuffs without the baggage.
    You kidding me?--- I want people to look at me with scorn? -- No thanks. I will agree with you that some people crave that type of attention.

    Secondly, nobody would even know I carried cuffs, they are in my car glove box, I carried them in my front pocket a couple times, and they don't print, nobody would have any idea what I had, it looked like the can of chew I keep in my back pocket. They are pretty heavy anyway, I already have a gun, chew, keys, and a wallet full of benjamins:P, my pockets are deep, but not that deep.

    Painting someone as a fanatic... hmmm I dunno, could someone be considered a fantatic if they oc'ed a wepaon, a "dog" size can of oc, a flashlight, 2 spare mags, and a knife? If you take off all that stuff, cept the gun, and you put a pair of cuffs on your belt, well maybe, I can see where people think it is just "wannabe" behavior.

    Zip ties are much more flexible, even the thick type, then can only be used once, so you better carry a lot of them in case you put the on too tight, they don't double lock, so you are more open to damaging the person and having a lawsuit then if you had a double locking pair of handcuffs. Zip ties, with the exception of just a few types are quite easy to cut with just a pair of scissors, pocketknife, even melt them with a lighter.

    I'm kind of indifferent to the whole thing though really, if someone wants to label me a wanna be for carrying some handcuffs in my glovebox, more power to 'em. I don't go out looking for trouble, and realize that unless you have more than one person, it is very dangerous to try and apprehend someone, and even then its no cake walk.

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    i am a corrections officer with my local sheriffs dept and carry a back up pair of cuffs at work. out of sheer habit i sometimes pick up my cuffs and slip them into a spare pocket when leaving the house. this does not make me a fanatic or a wannabe. it simply makes me better prepared for a situation that may arise. the entire point of OCing is preservation of lifeis it not? personally if i can get some one cuffed instead of shooting them i would much rather do so. also i agree with openryan, zipties dont double lock. i have seen first hand the damage that single locked cuffs can do, i can only imagine what a ziptie would do.

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    HankT wrote:
    bbvk05 wrote:
    ...the average person would not be able to do so unless assisted. I have experience here with wannabe purse snatcher (not my purse). I was assited. I always carry zipties now.
    By any chance did it belong to a guy who wason vacation from NC?

    If so, don't tell me, the snatcher's wrist was broken...right?

    :P

    ROFL! Not very nice to reference threads from a few months ago to a new guy, Hank, but that was funny.

    Anyway, welcome to the boards bbvk05. I agree with everything in your first post.


    edit:spelling

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    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    Flex cuffs would be my recommendation. Airline flight crews are required to have them now. Pilots have them and even the flight attendants.

    I would recommend studying up om probable cause. If you handcuff someone that will likely be ruled by the court as an arrest. You better have witnesses to the crime and preferablynot be the only guy making the arrest.Also make sure you can make a citizens arrest in your State. In some Statesyou can, in others you can't. Some States require it to be a felony charge. In most cases shoplifting is actually a misdemeanor and a citizens arrest could get you in trouble.

    Also if the person you "arrest" is found not guilty you will most likely be the target of a tort action. The chance of that being successful is far greater than if you were a trained law enforcement officer with indemnification from the county, city or State.

    Personally I would pass on playing police man for liability reasons unless it was a very seriouscrime of violence. Following a criminal with a cell phoneand calling the police may be a better route to go. I'm starting to wonder if some of you folks are watching too much TV and have fantasies of jumping out with your big 1911 , cuffing Ben ladenand saving the day. That is a danger pass time that could end up wiping you out financially. Intentional torts are not dischargable in bankruptcy and most home owners policies / personal umbrella polices are not going to cover false imprisonment or defend an abduction charge, so you could be in financial bondage for life if sued.

    Turn the tables for a second, if some self appointed citizen law enforcer believed that open carry was illegal and arrested you, handcuffed you in the middle of the grocery store, what would your response be ?

    Better have your facts straight and plenty of proof before you decide to play Joe Friday.
    I'd have to look but I thought kidnapping was a forcible felony...?


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    Some of the responses are making contentions that I do not disagree with. I am just critical of the average citizen carrying handcuffs. looks bad. I think that if you want restraints should SHTF, you should carry a ziptie or flex cuff or whatever.

    As for the kidnapping stuff, obviously people should only make a citizen's arrest if it is truly justified or necessary (as in you better know what the hell you are doing). In my state (Arizona) there is pretty broad citizen’s arrest provision and people are very rarely prosecuted.

    By the way, a breach of the peace has been expanded here to include anytime there is a disturbance in public or an individual’s property is being stolen from his person or residence.


    AZ
    13-3884. Arrest by private person

    A private person may make an arrest:

    1. When the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony.

    2. When a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it.

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    Why carry either for the multiple reasons brought up in the duplicate thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/6303.html?
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    ...if you're going to carry zip ties, learn to use 'em like Jet Li:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwTXLWN_0DA

    > )
    -Unrequited

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    Personally I don't see the need for the average citizen to carry handcuffs. I think that civil liability would be very great for the average person to restrain someone with handcuffs. I think I'llleave the handcuffing to the LEOs.

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    Personally I don't see the need for the average citizen to carry handcuffs. I think that civil liability would be very great for the average person to restrain someone with handcuffs. I think I'llleave the handcuffing to the LEOs.
    I agree with you. In addition, I'm not putting myself in a position that close to a person I perceive of as a threat. If he runs away, good for him. If he's threatened me, he's probably got holes on him anyway, and he ain't gonna make it far. I'll let the cops do the handcuffing.

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    vmathis12019 wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    Personally I don't see the need for the average citizen to carry handcuffs. I think that civil liability would be very great for the average person to restrain someone with handcuffs. I think I'llleave the handcuffing to the LEOs.
    I agree with you. In addition, I'm not putting myself in a position that close to a person I perceive of as a threat. If he runs away, good for him. If he's threatened me, he's probably got holes on him anyway, and he ain't gonna make it far. I'll let the cops do the handcuffing.
    vamthis12019, as you know our boys in blue here in Alabama probably wouldn't like us handcuffing someone would they?

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    You could say that again. There's no telling how screwed you'd be if you pulled a stunt like that down here, IF you made it out of the situation without getting hurt in the first place. I'd rather maintain a safe shooting distance. If a guy is committing a felony that requires me to draw a gun on him, I will operate under the assumption that holes are a much better restraint than handcuffs.

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    Just ran across this thread....

    I am not sure why people here are carrying cuffs....

    The likelihood that you would even use them are about as often as you would pull your gun.

    I do not know any COPS that even carry cuffs off duty!!

    I have been a cop for over 16 years and I have NEVER had a case where I needed to cuff someone while off duty. The idea that some citizens feel the need to carry cuffs is rather humorous.

    People reading the fact that some citizens are carrying cuffs AND a gun may give them the impression you want to be a cop.

    Just my .02 cents.

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    Well most folks who carry don't so no need to get worried about it. I've seen a lot of open carriers and CCWers, none of whom were carrying cuffs unless they had a badge. I've never even heard of anyone non-LEO using them in a defensive situation but there is always someone who goes against the grain, I suppose.

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    My cuffs stay in the bedroom. :celebrate

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    Mall ninjas? Tacticool? I have no interest in capturing people. Only protecting myself.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Just ran across this thread....

    I am not sure why people here are carrying cuffs....

    The likelihood that you would even use them are about as often as you would pull your gun.

    I do not know any COPS that even carry cuffs off duty!!

    I have been a cop for over 16 years and I have NEVER had a case where I needed to cuff someone while off duty. The idea that some citizens feel the need to carry cuffs is rather humorous.

    People reading the fact that some citizens are carrying cuffs AND a gun may give them the impression you want to be a cop.

    Just my .02 cents.
    Yup! Much like the CCW Badges...Oh Sh!t, now I did it.

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    Mall ninjas?
    This just painted a funny picture in my mind of ninjas performing kung fu at the local mall, rapelling from the ceiling, and getting into sword fights.

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    Walleye wrote:
    Mall ninjas?
    This just painted a funny picture in my mind of ninjas performing kung fu at the local mall, rapelling from the ceiling, and getting into sword fights.
    You obviously have not been to Springfield Mall. They train Ninjas, perform kung fu, and engage in sword fights right there on premises.

    http://www.kimskarateinc.com/index.cfm

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    I see it as a double edged sword. I carry a gun because I am not entirely confident that I can defend myself in a fist fight. If I come close enough to someone to try and cuff them, that's an invitation for the fight to get physical. I think I'm much safer keeping the gun on them until the cops arrive. The other edge of the sword is that I have to hope that the responding officer isn't some Barney Fife who'll shoot me when he sees me pointing a gun at someone.

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    Zip ties also can serve other purposes. Put some in your BUG for makeshift tourniquits. Fix a hanging muffler, or other loose object. Clean up that mess of cables behind the computer.

    Almost as handy as a towel.

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