DE and OPEN CARRY (Georgetown)

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Hey gang,
Im heading to Georgetown next weekend to do some range shooting etc. and wanted some opinions on Gun Shops, Ranges, and most importantly and experiences you guys have had with Open Carry in the Georgetown area (as that's where we will be).
Are the local law enforcement aware that open carry in DE is legal?
(more importantly - and i HATE to ask - are they aware that citizens can own/carry handguns - hahah)

Any places to NOT Open Carry in DE?



Thanks in advance for the help!

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nysarsenal wrote:

Hey gang,
Im heading to Georgetown next weekend to do some range shooting etc. and wanted some opinions on Gun Shops, Ranges, and most importantly and experiences you guys have had with Open Carry in the Georgetown area (as that's where we will be).
Are the local law enforcement aware that open carry in DE is legal?
(more importantly - and i HATE to ask - are they aware that citizens can own/carry handguns - hahah)

Any places to NOT Open Carry in DE?



Thanks in advance for the help!

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You may not carry:

1) In any of the three Delaware SLOT locations (slot machine casinos).
2) A Federal Building.
3) Within 1000' of any school or college.
4) I believe State/National parks are out as well.


Southern Delaware is a bit more gun friendly; however, open carry is very uncommon in the state, regardless. We've had uninformed/negative responses to letters sent to State Police. In northern Delaware, County and City police have actually been a bit more informed... in writing at least.

There's no online reference for ordinances south of Dover, so just remember, Article I, Section 20 of the Delaware Constitution:

§ 20. Right to keep and bear arms.

Section 20. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.

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If an officer threatens with Disorderly, the overall offense must first prove intent to cause a disturbance and the only real applicable sub-offense is letter 'g' which says something to the effect of, 'creating a hazardous condition with no good reason.' To me, defense of self, as stated in our Constitution is a very good reason. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

Hopefully this is a decent amount of information -- definitely write and post your experiences!

I'm way up in the northern part of the state and can't make recommendations on ranges.

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Not positive but since hunting is allowed on state parks carrying should be too. But the hunting season is short.

Open carry is legal but frowned on. Not something I'm willing to do in Wilmington or at the malls.

Not sure how they can enforce the 1000' for schools. I live less than that from Archmere. And drive up the road right next to it.

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stephpd wrote:

Not positive but since hunting is allowed on state parks carrying should be too. But the hunting season is short.

Open carry is legal but frowned on. Not something I'm willing to do in Wilmington or at the malls.

Not sure how they can enforce the 1000' for schools. I live less than that from Archmere. And drive up the road right next to it.

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No, carrying is state forests is prohibited by state forest regulation 3.400.8.0. It is, however, permissible in state parks. New Castle County has an ordinance against carrying in county parks, but it falls within the scope of state exemption, so I've sent a letter to the Attorney General to confirm this.

As for living within 1000' of a school/recreation zone -- private residences are 'exempt' as it were, quoted in part of the statute below. From what I hear, it's a very unenforced law, probably even more so for people driving within that radius.

1457. Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone; class D, E, or F: class A or B misdemeanor.

(g) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this section that the prohibited conduct took place entirely within a private residence, and that no person under the age of 18 was present in such private residence at any time during the commission of the offense. The affirmative defense established in this section shall be proved by the defendant by a preponderance of the evidence. Nothing herein shall be construed to establish an affirmative defense with respect to a prosecution for an offense defined in any other section of this chapter.

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anyone know about resturant or bar carry?
I know Utah, Pennsylvania and Virginia allow bar carry.......

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nysarsenal wrote:

anyone know about resturant or bar carry?
I know Utah, Pennsylvania and Virginia allow bar carry.......

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Literally, this is the complete list:

Slot casinos, federal buildings, state and national parks, wildlife management areas, 1000' away from schools... And Dover has a local ordinance that makes it illegal to OC without a Delaware CCDW permit.

Everything else is fine... Since Delaware is a very rare OC state, the lack of issues has made it so very little has been legislated in terms of control.

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But when a college or university is incorporated into a town (like Newark and U of D) how do we know where it's legal to carry and where it's not? How is the average OC'er supposed to differentiate between what is considered a college or university where they can't carry, and the city of Newark, where carry is OK?

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gotarheels03 wrote:

But when a college or university is incorporated into a town (like Newark and U of D) how do we know where it's legal to carry and where it's not? How is the average OC'er supposed to differentiate between what is considered a college or university where they can't carry, and the city of Newark, where carry is OK?

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Newark's local ordiances are kind of cryptic -- mostly in the respect that the ordiance is filed under a heading like, 'CONCEALED WEAPONS', but then the statute itself alludes to applying to open carry as well.

Newark proper is VERY scary -- you have Newark HS right at the end of Delaware Avenue, then the UD campus which encompasses god knows how much property. I probably wouldn't go in there without a permit myself.

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Wynder wrote:

Literally, this is the complete list:

Slot casinos, federal buildings, state and national parks, wildlife management areas, 1000' away from schools... And Dover has a local ordinance that makes it illegal to OC without a Delaware CCDW permit.

Everything else is fine... Since Delaware is a very rare OC state, the lack of issues has made it so very little has been legislated in terms of control.

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Last time I checked into this, Dover is the only city to have a gun ban on the books prior to effective date of preemption, which came with grandfathering for Dover.

So outside of Dover, i tlooks like you can OC thruout Delaware, including in vehicles, but except in Delaware.

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Mike wrote:

Wynder wrote:

Literally, this is the complete list:

Slot casinos, federal buildings, state and national parks, wildlife management areas, 1000' away from schools... And Dover has a local ordinance that makes it illegal to OC without a Delaware CCDW permit.

Everything else is fine... Since Delaware is a very rare OC state, the lack of issues has made it so very little has been legislated in terms of control.

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Last time I checked into this, Dover is the only city to have a gun ban on the books prior to effective date of preemption, which came with grandfathering for Dover.

So outside of Dover, i tlooks like you can OC thruout Delaware, including in vehicles, but except in Delaware.

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If you have your permit you can OC/CC in Dover. The thing is, in Newark proper, which pretty much is about a mile long strip of parallel running roads (Main St. and Delaware Ave. and some other perpendicular roadways), you have a high school on the east end and the huge University of Delaware campus on the west end and the stadium way on the southeast end... That, tied in with Delaware's suspect School and Recreation Safe zone, it wise to advise caution carrying in that area, simply because that 1000' radius encompasses a very large portion of the roadways on which you're able to travel in that section.

That being said, Georgetown is sufficiently far away from Dover and Newark alike to really have no concern about it.

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Wynder wrote:

There's no online reference for ordinances south of Dover, so just remember, Article I, Section 20 of the Delaware Constitution:

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Try this link which includes Georgetown:

http://www.ipa.udel.edu/directory/links/muni-sites.asp

follow link to georgetown code:

http://www.e-codes.generalcode.com/codebook_frameset.asp?ep=fs&t=ws&cb=1544_A

Chapter 103: FIREARMS

class=bodyText[HISTORY: Adopted by the Town Council of the Town of Georgetown 6-27-1963 by Ord. No. 308. Amendments noted where applicable.][/b]
class=bodyTextBold§ 103-1. Discharge of firearms prohibited; penalty; exceptions.
Any person who discharges any firearm within the corporate limits of the Town of Georgetown shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not less than $25 nor more than $50 for the first offense, in addition to the costs of prosecution, and for any subsequent like offense shall be fined not less than $50 nor more than $100 in addition to the costs of prosecution; provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties; and provided, further, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm in the lawful defense of his property or person. For the purposes of this section, each discharge of a firearm shall be deemed to be a separate offense.
class=bodyTextBold§ 103-2. Discharge of bow and arrow; penalty; exceptions. class=bodyTextBold[Added 5-23-1984 by Ord. No. 339]
Any person who discharges any bow and arrow within the corporate limits of the Town of Georgetown shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not less than $25 nor more than $50 for the first offense, in addition to the cost of prosecution, and for any subsequent like offense shall be fined not less than $50 nor more than $100 in addition to the cost of prosecution; provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply when a permit, in writing, to use a bow and arrow has been issued by the Mayor. For the purpose of this section, each discharge of a bow and arrow shall be deemed to be a separate offense.
class=bodyTextBold§ 103-3. Discharge of BB guns, etc.; penalty; exceptions. class=bodyTextBold[Added 5-23-1984 by Ord. No. 340]
Any person who discharges any air-gun, BB gun, gas-operated gun or spring-operated gun or any instrument, toy or weapon, commonly known as a blow-gun, peashooter or slingshot, within the corporate limits of the Town of Georgetown shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not less than $25 nor more than $50 for the first offense, in addition to the cost of prosecution, and for any subsequent like offense shall be fined not less than $50 nor more than $100 in addition to the cost of prosecution; provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply when a permit has been issued by the Mayor. For the purpose of this section, each discharge of any air-gun, BB gun, gas-operated gun, spring-operated gun, blow-gun, peashooter or slingshot shall be deemed to be a separate offense.



It looks like its just the local regulation of firearm discharge. I have OC in Georgetown and Seaford

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State parks prohibited


§ 4702. Violations of rules and regulations; penalties

(c) All rules and regulations of the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control promulgated pursuant to this chapter shall have the effect of law (snip)


Delaware State parks regs:
24.3



[align=left]It shall be unlawful to display, possess or discharge firearms of any description, air rifles, B.B. guns, sling shots or archery equipment upon any lands or waters administered by the Division, except by those persons lawfully hunting in those areas specifically designated for hunting by the Division, or except with prior written approval of the Director.[/align]
http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/parks/know/rules/rulemenu.htm#Rulesandregs

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But how does the State Park Regulations/Laws apply to people with a CC permit and are CC'ing. If it "hits the fan", and we have to use force on State Park lands, but we have a CC permit and we were CC'ing...can we still get busted?

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ijusam wrote:

State parks prohibited


§ 4702. Violations of rules and regulations; penalties

(c) All rules and regulations of the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control promulgated pursuant to this chapter shall have the effect of law (snip)


Delaware State parks regs:
24.3

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[align=left]

It shall be unlawful to display, possess or discharge firearms of any description, air rifles, B.B. guns, sling shots or archery equipment upon any lands or waters administered by the Division, except by those persons lawfully hunting in those areas specifically designated for hunting by the Division, or except with prior written approval of the Director.

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[/align]

http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/parks/know/rules/rulemenu.htm#Rulesandregs

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Man.. that conflicts with what handgunlaws.us/packing.org had as offlimits... Though their cite was 'Per AG'. We'll have forward them this statute and see what's what.

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KMcA6107 wrote:

But how does the State Park Regulations/Laws apply to people with a CC permit and are CC'ing. If it "hits the fan", and we have to use force on State Park lands, but we have a CC permit and we were CC'ing...can we still get busted?

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Probably, ayep.

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Wynder wrote:

KMcA6107 wrote:

But how does the State Park Regulations/Laws apply to people with a CC permit and are CC'ing. If it "hits the fan", and we have to use force on State Park lands, but we have a CC permit and we were CC'ing...can we still get busted?

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Probably, ayep.

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28.0
Penalty and Court Powers




28.1


[align=left]In accordance with the provisions set forth in the 7 Del.C. §4702(a), whoever violates the Rules and Regulations promulgated by the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control, Division of Parks and Recreation, shall be fined not less than $25.00 nor more than $250.00 and costs for each offense or imprisoned not more than thirty (30) days or both. For each subsequent like offense, he/she shall be fined not less than $50.00 nor more than $500.00. In addition to such fines, costs or imprisonment, any person who is convicted of any violation involving the damage, destruction or removal of property owned or administered by the State shall be required to make restitution to the Department for replacement or restoration of such property. Furthermore, in lieu of or in addition to the aforesaid penalties, the court may order violators convicted of violations involving the damage, destruction or removal of State Park property to perform work projects in State Parks[/align]
It appears that if you have a ccw permit then the most you could be charged with is a violation and pay the above fines. the same language for state forest. A lot better than a felony! IANAL

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Wynder wrote:

You may not carry:

1) In any of the three Delaware SLOT locations (slot machine casinos).
2) A Federal Building.
3) Within 1000' of any school or college.
4) I believe State/National parks are out as well.

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can You find cites for 1 + 2 ???

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ijusam wrote:

Wynder wrote:

You may not carry:

1) In any of the three Delaware SLOT locations (slot machine casinos).
2) A Federal Building.
3) Within 1000' of any school or college.
4) I believe State/National parks are out as well.

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can You find cites for 1 + 2 ???

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Federal Buildings:

http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/shared_files/titles/18_usc_930.htm

It looks to have a provision for carrying for 'Lawful purposes incident to hunting or other lawful purposes' (paraphrased), but I don't know if there's not another statute elsewhere from the Feds.

As for the SLOT locations, I cannot find a cite for that, but this was included on packing.org and is included on handgunlaw.us with no cite, either.

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Wynder wrote:

ijusam wrote:

Wynder wrote:

You may not carry:

1) In any of the three Delaware SLOT locations (slot machine casinos).
2) A Federal Building.
3) Within 1000' of any school or college.
4) I believe State/National parks are out as well.

Click to expand...

can You find cites for 1 + 2 ???

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Federal Buildings:

http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/shared_files/titles/18_usc_930.htm

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I was aware of title 18 but personally think the exception below is sufficient. I was just concerned that there might be further STATE restrictions that I don't know about.

3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

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I'd probably agree but, as always, I don't want to be a test case. ;p Have you seen any law regarding the slot casinos? I can't find anything, but I did put an email into the handgunlaw.us guys to see if they can find what their reference was.