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Thread: Weapons on Federal Facility

  1. #1
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    Ok, did some prior research and found this link with information on Firearms on Federal Facilities: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/caseco...ction_930.html

    I work as a contractor on a Federal Facility. To get into the parking lot, I have to show my work badge, so I'm assuming then the parking lot is also Federal property right? I do not intend to bring in my firearm into the building, but I would at least like it locked up in my car. I do have a "secure" box in my car. Does the fact that I have to show my ID to get into the parking lot, make the parking lotFederal Property? Then would that make it illegal for me to even have my firearm locked up in my car while at work?

    At the bottom of that link it states the following:

    h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
    posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal
    facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted
    conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court
    facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under
    subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such
    notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had
    actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.


    Now there are no signs displayed saying this is a Federal Facility nor any "No Gun Allowed" signs either so does that mean it's ok since nothing is posted? At the very end it says "unless such person had actual notice of subsection". What does that mean? Does it mean that the fact that I posted this link, that I have actual notice? No one at work has told me and I don't want to ask either as I've just started the job a few weeks ago.

    I don't like having to be disarmed just because I have to go to work. The facility is in VA, so I can have a firearm normally. I also have a CHP, but I don't think that helps in this matter much. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Read further in your link...

    "The term 'Federal facility' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federalemployees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties."

    Not to sound nit picky, but you're not asking about carrying in a Federal facility, you're asking about gun possession on Federal property.

    I don't have a definitive answer, but I'd like to.

    I do know that gun possession is not prohibited outright on all Federal property, because I know of exceptions. For example, some military installations have skeet ranges and allow hunting.



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    DrMark wrote:
    SNIP...For example, some military installations have skeet ranges and allow hunting.

    Vandenberg AFB allows hunting from time to time and the Skeet Range over looks the Pacific Ocean. Nice sight while you are waiting your turn to bust some clays.

    As to the topic at hand, I wouldn't risk it. Do they have signs posted that say they have the right to search your car by the act of you entering the parking lot?

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    No signs what so ever. You wouldn't know it was a Federal facility other than the armed guards and huge parking barrier at the entrance. I haven't carried into work as I don't want to risk it until I'm sure I'm completely legal to have it in the parking lot. I of course don't want want to bring it inside the office, but I do want to have it while traveling to and from work, or while running errands before/after work.

    I understand Quantico has a shooting range and you can enter with a firearm as long as it's locked up, separated from ammo and stored away from the passengers in the trunk while going to the range.

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    As a former MP on Quantico, I you can bring a firearm to the Weapons Training Battalion side of the base where the ranges are, as well as on Mainside legally, but I would advise against it, unless you have written permission from the Provost Marshall. (You can also say that you are going to Quantico Town, and not run into any problems, as long as it is secured in the trunk or inaccessible). MP's are eager to get into some sort of "action" and will likely stop you, search, and hold you for a time until they figure out that you are legit to bring it on the base. If you're only going to be there for a few minutes to a couple of hours, I personally wouldn't bother, but if you are going to be there all day, go for it.

    Now for other federal facilities, you are subject to search upon entering the facility, which includes the parking lots. Before entering, I would (sadly) disarm and store it in the trunk, just so you don't have problems, unless you are specifically told that it is legal and no problem will be brought up.

    (Soloban - I'm from Santa Maria, right up the street from there, and I never knew about that. Small world. I know Quantico allows limited hunting on the base as well, with a base hunting permit)

    Some of this is personal opinion, as you would be fine taking it on base.

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    xd.40 wrote:
    Now for other federal facilities, you are subject to search upon entering the facility, which includes the parking lots. Before entering, I would (sadly) disarm and store it in the trunk, just so you don't have problems, unless you are specifically told that it is legal and no problem will be brought up.
    Honestly, I don't think it being in your trunk would spare you from jail time. I know quite a few people that carry regularly down here in Hampton Roads that have to work on the bases here frequently, and they all lock their gun up AND park outside the gate.



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    Well, I know that to be the policy at Quantico, so legally you would be ok. Might get some harassment, but you would be legal.

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...












    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    Unfortunately parking outside the facility is not an option. Are there signs going into Quantico? I used to live in Triangle years ago and would go into Q-town, but this was all before 9/11 so I don't know if things have changed. The Marines at the front gate would ask you what your business was, I'd tell them I'd either be going to Lunga or Q-town and that was it. I don't remember any signs, but maybe I wasn't looking for them back then either...
    Now for other federal facilities, you are subject to search upon entering the facility, which includes the parking lots.
    Is this common knowledge (I didn't know this), or does this have to be posted somewhere? My last contract, there was a huge sign that said that bags including laptop bags were authorized for random searches. Visiting vehicles were subjected to bomb searches (mirrors were ran under the vehicles, but we'd never have to open our trunks).

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    Freeflight wrote:
    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...
    Sorry, but I'm not willing to risk my job or clearance until I have a difinitive answer. I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer to see what the limitations are.


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    eyesopened wrote:
    Freeflight wrote:
    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...
    Sorry, but I'm not willing to risk my job or clearance until I have a difinitive answer. I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer to see what the limitations are.

    I hear you, I am willing to risk job and clearance for my safety and the safety of my fellow workers,besides that, I'm high up enough to talk my way out of it...



    I wish we could get the Government to reverse itself. It will take many many of us to band together and demand our rights be recognized and honored.



    AS soon as any one of us brings up the subject we will make the "List"




    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Freeflight wrote:
    eyesopened wrote:
    Freeflight wrote:
    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...
    Sorry, but I'm not willing to risk my job or clearance until I have a difinitive answer. I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer to see what the limitations are.


    I hear you, I am willing to risk job and clearance for my safety and the safety of my fellow workers,besides that, I'm high up enough to talk my way out of it...
    If you are working ina facilitythat houses classified information, you probably have a security force of some type. Are you afraid of them or do you just believe that you are better equipped to deal with a situation? By the way GS-9 is not "high up." Although you do display the self-centeredness and arrogance of an SES type.

    I wish we could get the Government to reverse itself. It will take many many of us to band together and demand our rights be recognized and honored.
    In a federal facility, you have no right to possess a weapon just as you do not have free speech rights - particularly in an employment situation.

    AS soon as any one of us brings up the subject we will make the "List"




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    Forget it. Any attorney who tells you put yourself at risk because of lack of signage is committing professional misconduct. You know the rules. Unless you are ok with perjury, you will be asked what you knew and the answers will be enough to sink you.

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    Where did freeflight admit to being a GS-9?!?!?!

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    This is one issue that would be a nightmare if DC actually allowed you to CC. So many federal buildings.

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    apjonas wrote:
    Freeflight wrote:
    eyesopened wrote:
    Freeflight wrote:
    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...
    Sorry, but I'm not willing to risk my job or clearance until I have a difinitive answer. I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer to see what the limitations are.


    I hear you, I am willing to risk job and clearance for my safety and the safety of my fellow workers,besides that, I'm high up enough to talk my way out of it...
    If you are working ina facilitythat houses classified information, you probably have a security force of some type. Are you afraid of them or do you just believe that you are better equipped to deal with a situation?By the way GS-9 is not "high up." Although you do display the self-centeredness and arrogance of an SES type.

    I wish we could get the Government to reverse itself. It will take many many of us to band together and demand our rights be recognized and honored.
    In a federal facility, you have no right to possess a weapon just as you do not have free speech rights - particularly in an employment situation.

    AS soon as any one of us brings up the subject we will make the "List"



    Are you afraid of them or do you just believe that you are better equipped to deal with a situation?

    I don't trust them, just like I don't trust the little Security guard at the mall...and for the exact same reasons.

    I am alot better equipped to deal with any situation than they... becauseI am here and they are at least 10 min away...

    the way GS-9 is not "high up."

    Think HIGHER... I never said GS-9 norwill I divulge what/who I am... because the trolls wouln't believe it...

    Although you do display the self-centeredness and arrogance of an SES type

    Hmmm no need to get nasty.. are you a anti??? or a little gateguard/security forceatone of the bases?? you sure sound like one or the other, or both. And what do you mean SES type?? If that was intended to be more insulting, you missed your mark.

    Does the fact that I DO NOT surrender my RIGHTS make me self centered and arrogant?? if so, then that is what I am... self-centered and arrogant.

    In a federal facility, you have no right to possess a weapon just as you do not have free speech rights - particularly in an employment situation.


    Thats what they want the sheep to do.. be silent and helpless.. Not me.. not ever.

    Eyesopened asked a question, I responded in good faith and honestly from my perpective... eyesopened is free to take or leave my advice... because we all know what advice is....



    I am a Free-Man.

    Remember Remember the fifth of November.


    edit #1, corrected the not to make it read nor (as Intended) I never said GS-9 norwill ...


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    eyesopened wrote:
    Freeflight wrote:
    Don't ask DON'T TELL. The Federal "No Gun Zones" are every bit as STUPID as any other "Gun Free Zone" Just another place that you can wait to be executed by some punk while cowering like a yellow coward in the womens restroom...


    Edit... added this. For what it's worth I do indeedpractice what I preach...
    Sorry, but I'm not willing to risk my job or clearance until I have a difinitive answer. I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer to see what the limitations are.
    No problem... I wish you well.. and perhaps one day the Government will do the right thing for our rights...

    Until then, you must know that I fully understand the risk I take... and have made my decision. I do caution you that taking my advice could be very costly...

    You have to weigh everything for yourself.



    FreeFlight...


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    hsmith wrote:
    This is one issue that would be a nightmare if DC actually allowed you to CC. So many federal buildings.
    Maybe. But the 2nd Amendment specifically prohibits the Federal Govmnt. from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Thus the prohibition of carrying in fed buildings is actually unlawful. Unless I'm missing something...?

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    American Rattlesnake wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    This is one issue that would be a nightmare if DC actually allowed you to CC. So many federal buildings.
    Maybe. But the 2nd Amendment specifically prohibits the Federal Govmnt. from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Thus the prohibition of carrying in fed buildings is actually unlawful. Unless I'm missing something...?
    Sadly, we all know the "way it should" be and the "way it is"

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    hsmith wrote:
    Sadly, we all know the "way it should" be and the "way it is"
    Indeed.

  21. #21
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    You have actual federal property and federaly controlled property like a leased building or parking lot. Same rules apply to both. I learned this while in the Navy and as a federal worker.

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    eyesopened wrote:
    Ok, did some prior research and found this link with information on Firearms on Federal Facilities: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/caseco...ction_930.html

    I work as a contractor on a Federal Facility. To get into the parking lot, I have to show my work badge, so I'm assuming then the parking lot is also Federal property right? I do not intend to bring in my firearm into the building, but I would at least like it locked up in my car. I do have a "secure" box in my car. Does the fact that I have to show my ID to get into the parking lot, make the parking lotFederal Property? Then would that make it illegal for me to even have my firearm locked up in my car while at work?

    At the bottom of that link it states the following:

    h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
    posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal
    facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted
    conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court
    facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under
    subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such
    notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had
    actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.


    Now there are no signs displayed saying this is a Federal Facility nor any "No Gun Allowed" signs either so does that mean it's ok since nothing is posted? At the very end it says "unless such person had actual notice of subsection". What does that mean? Does it mean that the fact that I posted this link, that I have actual notice? No one at work has told me and I don't want to ask either as I've just started the job a few weeks ago.

    I don't like having to be disarmed just because I have to go to work. The facility is in VA, so I can have a firearm normally. I also have a CHP, but I don't think that helps in this matter much. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Who has control of the federal property you’re working on. GSA, DOD, Post Office or Federal Court?? Each have their own rules, regulations and laws. Title 18 Ch. 44 Sec. 930 may or may not apply.


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    SFDoc wrote:
    Who has control of the federal property you’re working on. GSA, DOD, Post Office or Federal Court?? Each have their own rules, regulations and laws. Title 18 Ch. 44 Sec. 930 may or may not apply.
    That I'm not sure. The armedguards are contractors, but the man in charge is US Capitol Police. It is not a post office or court building, the location is an alternate datacenter for a Gov't Body. I'm not trying to be cool or coy by not identifying the location or Gov't Body. It's a non disclosed site and I've been told to never give out it's address so I'm playing it safe.

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    eyesopened wrote:
    SFDoc wrote:
    Who has control of the federal property you’re working on. GSA, DOD, Post Office or Federal Court?? Each have their own rules, regulations and laws. Title 18 Ch. 44 Sec. 930 may or may not apply.
    That I'm not sure. The armedguards are contractors, but the man in charge is US Capitol Police. It is not a post office or court building, the location is an alternate datacenter for a Gov't Body. I'm not trying to be cool or coy by not identifying the location or Gov't Body. It's a non disclosed site and I've been told to never give out it's address so I'm playing it safe.
    Don’t blame you, and understand, I sometimes work in a similar situation. If Capital police are the primary LE, I would advise not taking it on the property, even if you have it disabled and locked up. Some of them are not very 2-A friendly (except for themselves) or very understanding about personal defense. There are a few that have a don’t ask, don’t tell view, but they are far and few between. Many of the contract guards/officers know little to nothing of the laws that apply to lawful carry and will go with whatever they are told by C.P. or their supervisors. If found could cost you more than your job. Sorry can’t help you more - Good luck.

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    Just make sure you go to the supply room and get yourself a nice pair of scissors and a big, heavy 3-hole puncher. Then, when it comes time for the holiday office lunch (or whatever), bring in a 'kitchen' knife to cut the cake....

    What is a little less clear to me is whether or not a judge would find fault with pepper spray or an expandable baton.

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