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Night Sights, Yes or No

tarzan1888

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Agent19 wrote:
Expo, no offensemeant none taken.
Tarzan,I believe you are correct, hence my post in moderation at least under that name;).

It was your post in moderation that got me looking and when I read the post it hit me that it was not a post from a new member with only 8 posts, but the verbiage sounded just like her, and the post had the flow of a long time poster.



Tarzan
 

nickerj1

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Agent19 wrote:

For day, low light and night shooting with aflashlight I have come to rely on Hi-Viz.
I only have their first sight installed and use factory rear.

Interesting. I do a fair bit of shotgunning and hi-viz is almost a must. However, for shotgunning it's a totally different mindset. You don't really look at your sight, but rather the target presentation. The hi-viz sight makes seeing your barrel end easier without actually concentrating on it.
 

glocksrock

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I have three glocks 19 20 22 all three have night sights and i love'um. after getting night sights installed on my g19,my main carry gun i had them put on the other 2.
 

dangerousman

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:lol:LOL, if you're speculating that I am somebody that you think you know from this forum, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
 

spurrit

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If you get night sights, get the front sight a different color than the rear. My Sig 220 came with green dots, and it's actually pretty easy to get the front sight on the left or right of the rear sights, in the dark, under stress.
 

dangerousman

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Agent19 wrote:
in my homei'm not going to search for anyone, secure my kids,wife(armed) stays with them and i protect the entrance to that area, the dog searches:lol:
"A good man always knows his limitations."
 

UtahRSO

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My 1911 came with night sights, and it's been comforting in the night to be able to see my sights. But during the day, I'm not picking up the front sight too well. It just seems gray, not so quickly seen. There's a white ring around each dot, and on the rear sights it's nicely noticable. But that ring just isn't noticeable enough on the front sight.

My advice if you go with night sights is to make sure there's a well-defined white or silver ring around the tritium dot on the front. It makes a lot of difference in the daylight. Or better still, if you can get them for your gun model, get the Tru-Glo fiber optic/tritium sights.

According to the gunsmith I took my gun to, Tru-Glo doesn't make that tritium/fiber optic sight for my 1911. So... for better or worse, I just had my front sight replaced with a Novak fiber optic sight, giving up the night sight on the front entirely. I'm hoping I made the right decision, but it seems to work if there's any light at all.
 

spurrit

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UtahRSO wrote:
My 1911 came with night sights, and it's been comforting in the night to be able to see my sights. But during the day, I'm not picking up the front sight too well. It just seems gray, not so quickly seen. There's a white ring around each dot, and on the rear sights it's nicely noticable. But that ring just isn't noticeable enough on the front sight.

My advice if you go with night sights is to make sure there's a well-defined white or silver ring around the tritium dot on the front. It makes a lot of difference in the daylight. Or better still, if you can get them for your gun model, get the Tru-Glo fiber optic/tritium sights.

According to the gunsmith I took my gun to, Tru-Glo doesn't make that tritium/fiber optic sight for my 1911. So... for better or worse, I just had my front sight replaced with a Novak fiber optic sight, giving up the night sight on the front entirely. I'm hoping I made the right decision, but it seems to work if there's any light at all.


Just paint the front sight with white out, leaving the tritium cylinder unpainted. Works well for me.
 

cREbralFIX

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9mm vs 45 ACP, double action versus single action, night sights or not....

VAOpenCarry said "not necessary" because there are alternative techniques that have been used for generations. Splashing photons on a target while moving (or from behind cover) gives you a sight picture.

I have night sights on one gun. It has a three dot setup. My other guns lack night sights. A different colored front sight is not needed if you simply raise the muzzle slightly and shoot using the "triangle". In a fight, any hit is bad for the goblin and good for you.

Since learning to point shoot off where my nose is looking, I don't see a need for night sights for *close* confrontations. Ambient light is usually available; look and shoot. If it's close, it'll be very, very fast and acquiring a sight picture will slow you down. However, if you need to aim for some reason, then night sights will be very valuable. Shining a light will also assist--and may be necessary for identifying a target.

Another "however": is it always necessary to "identify" a target? I would say that's conditional based upon context. LEOs should be identifying everything as a part of their job. For citizens, my opinion is "It depends". If I know the location of every authorized occupant of my home, for example, then someone entering my bedroom IS a goblin. Again, this is context dependant and based upon your knowledge of who's around. If there is any doubt (such as when you have guests and you live alone), then you need to ID the target--if only to save your conscience.

As for weapon mounted lights--it's a fight, not range practice. Your gun needs to point where your light and eyes points --more or less, but not necessarily in line. So regardless of the type of light and its mount, you may need to splash photons onto the target. The limitation of the weapon mounted light is that you cannot point the light elsewhere and use the splatter. The hand held flashlight gets you some versatility at the expense of a solid grip.

Regarding fights: stuff happens and the fight just is. That means you'll sweep yourself and others, point it in unsafe directions, and so forth. If it sweeps the kiddies, then don't pull the trigger. Yeegadzooks...a safety violation! Yup--that will occur in a fight. People tend to forget that this is about fighting, not range exercises. So the old "well, the weapon mounted light forces the user to point his weapon at people to see"...true...is really sort of BS. Your weapon is deployed for a reason, and not because Sparky's taking a dump in the corner.

In summary, night sights can assist in certain shooting situations, but keep in mind the context of the fight. If things are developing very quickly and at very close range, then aiming may not be the best answer. Even using a gun may not be the best answer. Going to hands may give you the opening you need to get a weapon into the fight. However, there may be situations where you need to aim at a target beyond the distance at which you are confident in point shooting. There is always the option of using the light instead of night sights (you'll see the black outline). Either way, there are tradeoffs and you'll have to make that decision at crunch time.
 

Citizen

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Agent19 wrote:
what my dog is willing to do for love is amazing.
that is why i own what i own and you have yours.:lol:
he considers it the least he can to, after all he gets room/board and companionship
my dog considers the property his as much as it is mine and will rebuke all intruders
Did he steal the Shift key off your keyboard? :)
 

tarzan1888

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spurrit wrote:
UtahRSO wrote:
My 1911 came with night sights, and it's been comforting in the night to be able to see my sights. But during the day, I'm not picking up the front sight too well. It just seems gray, not so quickly seen. There's a white ring around each dot, and on the rear sights it's nicely noticable. But that ring just isn't noticeable enough on the front sight.

My advice if you go with night sights is to make sure there's a well-defined white or silver ring around the tritium dot on the front. It makes a lot of difference in the daylight. Or better still, if you can get them for your gun model, get the Tru-Glo fiber optic/tritium sights.

According to the gunsmith I took my gun to, Tru-Glo doesn't make that tritium/fiber optic sight for my 1911. So... for better or worse, I just had my front sight replaced with a Novak fiber optic sight, giving up the night sight on the front entirely. I'm hoping I made the right decision, but it seems to work if there's any light at all.


Just paint the front sight with white out, leaving the tritium cylinder unpainted. Works well for me.


That is a good idea.



Tarzan
 

FightingGlock19

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>>Since learning to point shoot off where my nose is looking, I don't see a need for night sights for *close* confrontations. Ambient light is usually available; look and shoot. If it's close, it'll be very, very fast and acquiring a sight picture will slow you down. However, if you need to aim for some reason, then night sights will be very valuable. Shining a light will also assist--and may be necessary for identifying a target.<<

How much will getting a proper sight picture on a target slow the shooter down? If you're already sure of the target & what's beyond it, what's wrong with watching the front sight? It'll make sure all of the rounds go into the heartbox & the brain box, right?

>>Another "however": is it always necessary to "identify" a target? I would say that's conditional based upon context.<<

the target and what's beyond it always needs to be identified.

>>As for weapon mounted lights--it's a fight, not range practice. Your gun needs to point where your light and eyes points --more or less, but not necessarily in line. So regardless of the type of light and its mount, you may need to splash photons onto the target. The limitation of the weapon mounted light is that you cannot point the light elsewhere and use the splatter. The hand held flashlight gets you some versatility at the expense of a solid grip.<<

Weapon mounted lights are only for one way ranges? I disagree. Weapon mounted lights can be an awsome advantage, there's been a few situations where I would have preffered a weapon mounted light to the hand held. Momma going to get the kids from their bedroom to the safe room & carrying the little one in her arms can be a valid excuse for the tactical advantages of a weapon light. Having to drag a team member to safety is another, and the list could go on.

The limitation, as you elluded to, is that once the light is mounted to the weapon, it's no longer a flashlight, it's part of the weapon.One cannot point the light at anythingone doesn't need to be pointing the pistol at. A weapon mounted light is not a replacement for a hand held flashlight, just an additional tool to use in a tactical situation.

With the correct weak- or strong-hand grip, sacrificing such is a non-issue.

>>Regarding fights: stuff happens and the fight just is. That means you'll sweep yourself and others, point it in unsafe directions, and so forth. If it sweeps the kiddies, then don't pull the trigger. Yeegadzooks...a safety violation! Yup--that will occur in a fight.<<

I would like to know where you've trained, as I've NEVER pointed my weapon(s) at anything that didn't need to have it (them) pointed at. Ifone's wildly pointingtheir gun around during a fight, there's no way they'll hittheir target, and ifthey do then it was just plain luck.

Ifone weapon sweeps oneself and, God forbid,their CHILDREN, then there's a serious lack of proper training somewhere withintheir training résumé :what:
 

cREbralFIX

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>>the target and what's beyond it always needs to be identified.

I disagree. You will be spending your time getting out of your OODA loop and into the goblin's OODA loop. If you have *time*, then by all means do what you need to do. But if you don't, you'll be focused on fighting. There will also be situations where you won't know you're in a fight until *after* the first attack. Are you going to "identify" then? The word "always" wouldn't even apply to law enforcement in such a situation, much less Joe Citizen.

I think we agree on the advantages and disadvantages of weapon mounted lights. Have both available and choose based upon the situation.

**********************************************

>>How much will getting a proper sight picture on a target slow the shooter down? If >>you're already sure of the target & what's beyond it, what's wrong with watching >>the front sight? It'll make sure all of the rounds go into the heartbox & the brain >>box, right?

Sorry...wasn't clear. I did not mean that the gun would be at nose level.

It takes long enough to raise the gun from stomach/chest to eye level and acquire the sights that you can get punched, stabbed, or shot. Get rounds into the enemy fast.

...and don't buy into the "one shot stop" marketing hype. These are handguns and their terminal ballistics are weak. Throw rounds at them until they're down and not a threat, versus checking after every shot.

*********************************************

I am not sure how this makes any sense:

Ifone's wildly pointingtheir gun around during a fight, there's no way they'll hittheir target, and ifthey do then it was just plain luck.

The shooter may simply not have a choice to avoid a knife, bullet, or blow--so the gun will move around. Grappling situations or distances less than 8 feet are exceptionally dangerous. The gun is a blunt instrument and you may end up using the slide or frame as a bludgeon...or just stick the barrel through the eye. Regardless of your adversary's activities, at some point you'll be able to orient and get a shot off.

***********************************************

So you can guarantee in a close fighting situation that you'll maintain muzzle discipline in accordance with range safety procedures? When fists are flying, you'll do what you need to do. You may sweep your thigh and wave the gun around--and point the muzzle at the kiddies' room in the process.

But to say that "it won't happen" or "there is a lack of training" is incorrect and possibly disingenuous. The more correct way to say it would be "lack of safety training in non-emergency situations."

And, I hate to break it to you, but every time you draw you sweep some part of yourself. Does this indicate a failure of training? I would say "no" because drawing your firearms is an essential skill...yet it violates the gun range safety rules.

This is the nature of the game...range rules and attitudes create unrealistic expectations that do not apply in a fight for life. By all means...minimize risk while on the range and at home outside of an emergency. But in a fight, anything goes and necessity rules. This is not some vague notion; we've been programmed as a culture in "safety first" and "minimize risk" to such a degree that we believe such "rules" are universal and not context dependent. We, as a generic culture and as a "gun" culture, have forgotten that risk is based upon context and have failed to be flexible in our evaluations and reactions.

So all this as it applies to night sights: it's just a tool to assist in longer range shots in low light conditions (versus no light conditions, which require a flashlight so you can see *any* part of the goblin). There are other means to achieve the same result that do not require the purchase additional gear. Point shooting, combined with the use of ambient light and/or a supplemental light, will get hits out to your point shooting "comfort zone". For longer range shots, a light will create a background against which your sights can be seen. Night sights reduce the need for a light in that circumstance. In short, get night sights if you want all the advantages, but know that technique reduces them to an optional bonus.

I guess all of the above can be summed up as: "Don't try to gun fight without risk and to do so is to lose."
 

Enthusiast

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Not only do you have be able to indentify your target and what's beyond, but you are also accountable for each round you shoot. Night sights will help you know where you are aiming.

Trijicon sights are very good, they seem to be a bit brighter than some of the other brands. Another option is XS Big Dot Sights. You can really get quicker sight pictures with them than a lot of other sights. You do have to practice a little with them if you have never used anything like them, but they are well worth it. These sights were made for defensive shooting, not target or competion shooting. Here's a link to them if you're interested.

http://www.xssights.com/store/handgun.html
 

taurus9mm

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YES! I have a Taurus Millenium Titanium with factory tritium night sights, i will NEVER have a weapon without.
 
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