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Thread: I have never owned a handgun...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Custodian's Avatar
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    Let me tell you more about myself... I am from North Carolina, born and raised. I always wanted a handgun after I turned 21 but it constantly got put on the back burner. Also for a hassle for a standard gun permit you need to know 2 people, preferably in Law Enforcement or notable upstanding citizens. Strangely enough, to get your Concealed Carry permit all you need is the class and the certificate to give to the county sheriff. I will tell you I live in the only county in North Carolina that requires you to register ANY gun after purchase.

    I am a Correctional Officer, but in North Carolina, NCDOC personel be they Probation and Parole [now Rebranded as Community Corrections] or Correctional Officers are NOT law enforcement.
    C/Os are just average citizens with powers when they clock in and those powers cut off when relieved and off the job. Interestingly enough, though we are judged strictly by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Training and Standards Board but have none of the perks of law enforcement whom they also judge.

    I piss off convicted criminals on a daily basis, so I saw the immediate need for a gun. Still waiting on my permit, too. Also my county issues the smallest amount of CCH permits in the state.

    I know this is the Open Carry forum, however, I went out for the CCH class passed [used a Glock 17 from the range, not bad] with a 100%. I wanted a CCH because I need one to store a weapon at my job location and just as important it allows me to buy a handgun on the spot no questions asked in this state anywhere be it a show, a store or personal. However I think open carry makes more sense than concealed. Why must we hide away that which protects us? Oh well.

    Finally before I seriously get off topic. I'm told .45 ACP guns are seriously the best when it comes to stopping an attacker. And if so, which one? the cold steel, tried and true? [1911, Browning Hi-Power?] The true marvel of the 1980s? [Glock] Or the new challengers, at your own risk of doing these companies R&D? [HS2000/XD, new M&Ps, 24/7 Pro, etc.]


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    I would recommend that you go to a range and rent some of the guns you are thinking about. This small expense may save you from getting a gun that isn't as comfortable in your hands, or doesn't shoot naturally for you. Remember that the more you like your gun, the more likely you are to actually carry it.

    That said, I love sigs, but for the new shooter I would recommend checking out the new S&W M&Ps (9mm and 45 are my favorite calibers, but most people are fans of .40), or the Springfield XD (the 45 xd actually has a higher capacity than the 40 xd!). I really, really like the springfield XD 45. If I were to recommend a gun to a new shooter that wants a .45, that would be the one.

    A lot of people will recommend Glocks, but remember that they don't work for some people. For me, a glock does not point naturally, and I always have to adjust my point of aim when I draw. The XD on the other hand always lines the sights up naturally. Same with a Beretta. This is different for everybody.

    A nice new gun on the market to check out, if you aren't interested in a full size service pistol, is the new Taurus 24/7 compact. It's actually very comfortable to hold and fills out the hand a lot more than you would expect by looking at it, and it is a lot easier to conceal than a full size pistol. Remember that you are sacrificing control for size whenever you go small, but you are also making a sacrifice of concealability when you go large (this can be corrected with an appropriate belt and holster. BELT and holster. The belt is important)



    Good luck! And btw, it isa greatfeeling to know that you can take care of your own safety without expecting the police to, so congratulations on making thegood decision to go armed.Just remember the wise words ofPeter Parker's uncle,"With great power comes great responsibility". Be responsible and learn the 4 rules. Use common sense and be a good person. That's all of my advice and wisdom, so welcome to OCDO!

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    Custodian wrote:
    Finally before I seriously get off topic. I'm told .45 ACP guns are seriously the best when it comes to stopping an attacker. And if so, which one? the cold steel, tried and true? [1911, Browning Hi-Power?] The true marvel of the 1980s? [Glock] Or the new challengers, at your own risk of doing these companies R&D? [HS2000/XD, new M&Ps, 24/7 Pro, etc.]
    I don't normally stop in this forum, but I would ask you why you aren't considering any magnum revolvers? A .45 COM shot is going to kill a person, surely, but will it stop a person from getting a shot off at you? I don't know. That's for you to decide. There's always the magazine-capacity argument, but if you can't stop a threat or get to cover to reload in 6 shots, I doubt more shots are going to make much of a difference.

    Just my .44

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    Revolvers make good first-handguns. Easy to use. No gadgets to worry about like safeties and magazines. Almost never ever jam.A failure to fire means just pull the trigger again--you don't have to rack the slide, re-seat the magazine, etc.

    Not that auto's aren't good--they're great.A revolver offers some benefits to the first time handgun owner. Justpoint and pull the trigger.

    Its my understanding that the gun/cartridge with the best record for one-shot stops on bad guys is the .357 Magnum in 125 gr. hollow-point. Next up, so I've read, is the .45 ACP.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Go to the range, rent a couple out, put 50 rounds through each, see how they feel, how your groupings are, etc...

    The SW Sigma fits my hand great, feels very natural and I shoot it well, but it might be a horrible fit for you, and it doesn't come in a .45, but the M&P does I believe.

    Don't go out and buy it on heresay alone, do some research, borrow one you are interested in from a friend if you can, or rent one at the range.

    .45 is great ammunition, a little bit more kick than I personally like, but again it depends what you are shooting it out of (I wish I had a 1911!). However it certainly isn't the only round capable of "stopping someone".

    Finally, you have to be able to hit vital blood bearing organs to put someone down, unless you hit them in the head they aren't stopping immediately, and won't be blown back 25 feet like in the movies. If you can shoot .45 and shoot it well, then that is great.

    I guess my advice would be to go with the caliber that you shoot the best. If you shoot a .45 and hit the target once, but hit it 12 times with a .22, well I think that speaks for itself.

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    If you shoot a .45 and hit the target once, but hit it 12 times with a .22, well I think that speaks for itself.
    If that's the case you gotta get your butt to the range a little more often and practice with that .45. :P

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    A good gun is like a good wife.

    Everyone can tell you which kind you really need, but you're the one who has to live with your decision.

    Unlike your wife, your new gun will not care how many guns you have tried out previously.

    Here are my recommendations. No matter what type, brand, or size of weapon you choose:

    1) Make sure you buy one that is RELIABLE above all things. Buying a gun you have no confidence in will only be purchasing something to worry about. You will regretyour gun going"click" when you really need "BANG" for the rest of your life. ..........which might not be toolong if you really need "BANG".

    2) Make sure you are comfortable with it. Look for things such as natural point of aim, how it fits in your hand, familiarity with the gun's mechanisms. Does the distance your finger reaches to the trigger feel right? If it's an auto, can you comfortably release the magazine? Does putting the safety ON/OFF feel natural? Are you going to conceal it? Where would it be comfortable? How EASY/DIFFICULT is it to conceal?

    Remember: In order to get you out of a jam, you have to have it with you when the jam happens. Since you'll be spending lots of time with it, choose wisely. Make sure you are comfortable with it when you don't need it, and make sure it works if you do.



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    USAF_MetalChris wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    If you shoot a .45 and hit the target once, but hit it 12 times with a .22, well I think that speaks for itself.
    If that's the case you gotta get your butt to the range a little more often and practice with that .45. :P
    Yeah, but you get the point I am trying to make here, shoot what you shoot best. If its .45 great, or .22, 9, .40, .38, whatever it may be, it will be much more effective than using a "man stopper" that you can't aim worth a damn...after the first shot...

    (now I will wait for someone to say "well ryan, you only need one shot with a .45" :P)

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    Whatever gun you get, make sure to put 200 rounds through it before you trust your life to it. A lot of guns have a 200 round "break in" period. They may jam or have extracting issues or something like that throughout those first 200 rounds, but afterwards they will feed more reliably. The reason is because of tight tolerances. When you get the gun, the tolerances will be very tight because it hasn't been fired.

    You'll also be more familiar with your gun and how it handles after 200 rounds.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Don't know what it means to anyone, but I have been goofing around shooting into deer neck meat ( whole hunks of skinned deer necks off rutting bucks, with bones still inside). I have done .40 hollowpoints, .40 solid ( fmj) and 2 .45 acp solids. The hollowpoints didn't penetrate as far, as expected, but still pretty good penetration and wound channels double the size of solid point, and went through bone just fine. Jackets seperated from lead, creating possible more meat damage.

    solids- 1 .40 went through nearly 14 inches of solid muscle and cleanly through bone, was almost all the way through the last neck ( 3 stacked on eachother), the other was fired at bad angle and exited out 1st or 2nd neck and went 3-4 inches into dirt. One .45 seems to have gone through all 3 and deep into ground, but I couldn't find exit hole in meat nor in the bucketI stacked the 3 necks into, butI did find a dent in the bottom. The other .45 seems to have not gone through the 3rd neck all the way, but I could not find the slug, just got to a point in the wound channel and the channel stops. Likey in there somewhere, butI didn't feel like slicing the meat more thanI needed to. Went through bone cleanly though.

    Hard to translate all this to what would happen to a live human body of some big bad guy, but I had fun anyway. But seems the .40's and .45's are pretty close ballistcally, but I have read the .40 is faster in feet per second.



    I should try phone books, and thick leather over deer necks and....shooting regular old paper is sooo boring LOL

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    Ya know I've never went through the process of getting a purchase permit in NC...I just waited to get my CHP and used that for my purchases. As far as your handgun purchases go, I personally carry a SW99 .40 which I've found to be very reliable and comfortable. I'm one of those guys that think glocks feel like blocks in your hand . You really need to hold and fire some yourself to get the right idea. I would suggest, though, that you seriously consider picking up a 1911 as your first gun. Like you said, they're tried and true, and it's almost a given that you're gonna want one at some point in your life might as well get it out of the way first thing.

    As far as caliber is concerned, I think it has a whole lot to do with personal preference as well. If .22 caliber bullets couldn't take down a person, they wouldn't be making defensive handguns for it. Now I think a .45 is probably better than a .22 in general, but I don't think you could definitively say that a .40 is better than a .38, or a .45 better than a .40, etc.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    found this and thought it was funny, remember this is humor not slamming anyones caliber choice.
    http://http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Caliber-wars-t22247.html

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    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    So according to that very reputable source of ballistic information, the .40 cal provides the best defense with the least injury?

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    LMAO, I think it means that the recoil is too much or something and you can't hit squat, but let me tell you, .40 is same recoil as .45 as far as I can tell( my experience is XD40 4" to 5" 1911)and most shooters seem to be able to deal with it LOL- heck I am a woman and can fire a .40 and a .45 and actually hit the target LOL

    The 9mm part of the cartoon is LMAO though- so true LOL he he he- a friend of mine andI are always making jokes about weak 9mm LOL- its good for target shooting if you want to spend more money than .22's LOL

    However .22 long rifle is kickass on small game animals, and 9mm would be ok for pesky varmints like barn raccoons and close quarter groundhogs LOL

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    Custodian wrote:
    ......Finally before I seriously get off topic. I'm told .45 ACP guns are seriously the best when it comes to stopping an attacker. And if so, which one? the cold steel, tried and true? [1911, Browning Hi-Power?] The true marvel of the 1980s? [Glock] Or the new challengers, at your own risk of doing these companies R&D? [HS2000/XD, new M&Ps, 24/7 Pro, etc.]

    Can you say can of worms........

    I will say this, I own 2 big bore handguns (defensive calibers larger than .32). One in .45 ACP and One in .357 Magnum

    Take your pick big and slow or small and fastthey both will do the Job.



    Tarzan

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    The 9mm part of the cartoon is LMAO though- so true LOL he he he- a friend of mine andI are always making jokes about weak 9mm LOL- its good for target shooting if you want to spend more money than .22's LOL

    However .22 long rifle is kickass on small game animals, and 9mm would be ok for pesky varmints like barn raccoons and close quarter groundhogs LOL
    I believe the expression that I use is, "Well, that 9mm will have you set in case you ever get mugged by a gang of chipmunks".

    I have a hard time accepting the "it's too much recoil argument". Maybe it's because I'm 6'5" and 270lbs, but the only gun I've ever had minor recoil issues with is my Mossberg 500 (12 ga) with an 18" barrel, and only when using 3" magnum slugs. My advice would be to go to a range, rent a .44 magnum revolver, fire off about 50 or 100 rounds. Then work your way to smaller calibers. I can guarantee that .357 magnum or .45 will feel much more managable afterward.

    Shot placement definately does matter, though, don't get me wrong. A 9mm to the head will generally slow a person more than a .44 magnum to the hand. But with both shots to center of mass, I feel the results will be much more different. Do you feel that the caliber you carry is enough to, with good but not perfect shot placement, stop the large man coming at you with a knife (or gun)? Or is it merely enough to kill him several seconds later... after you've already been stabbed or shot?

    I'm with Citizen on this one. On a mildly related note, I always get a chuckle out of talk of safeties, thinking back to a discussion I heard going on next to me at the counter of a gun store while the FBI was doing their usual investigation of me before letting me buy a gun. The girl was looking for a carry handgun, and the salesman showed her a .38 revolver... she seemed to like it, and asked where the safety was on it. The salesman replied, "The safety is the trigger. If you want it to fire, pull the trigger. If not, don't pull the trigger. That's the safety."

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    I loved the ballistic diagram, Agent19!

    Yeah, you might have an advantage with a 10mm.............at 100 paces! If only you could guarantee all gunfights happenedat that distance. Maybe you could talk the BG into standing back to back and stepping it off!

    Fortunately, most gunbattles happen WITHIN range of a .45.

    Now what?

    What hurts more? A B.B. or a brick? You can crank a B.B. up to lightspeed.....but it's still a B.B. Only now you have to worry about overpenetration.

    Even a slow moving brick hurts.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    A .22 to the head can put someone right down. Has to hit the right spot of course, or you get a mad BG. I was watching this show- FBI Files- and some big Tony mafia kind of guy was shot 3 times at point blank in the back of the head with a lil .22 pistol, in an attempt on a hit on this big guy. It made him major MAD is what happened LOL

    Now if you can manage head shots in a situation, go for it, the 9mm will do for that. Think center brain or brain stem for a kill shot. Shooting through the cheeks from the side won't do it. That's a face shot, not a head shot. And don't use old ammo. Some gangbanger idiot in Detroit shot a 7 yr old girl in the head some 6 times and she lived, I am assuming his wimpy 9mm ammo was old degraded stuff. Or something...

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    A .22 to the head can put someone right down. Has to hit the right spot of course, or you get a mad BG. I was watching this show- FBI Files- and some big Tony mafia kind of guy was shot 3 times at point blank in the back of the head with a lil .22 pistol, in an attempt on a hit on this big guy. It made him major MAD is what happened LOL

    Now if you can manage head shots in a situation, go for it, the 9mm will do for that. Think center brain or brain stem for a kill shot. Shooting through the cheeks from the side won't do it. That's a face shot, not a head shot. And don't use old ammo. Some gangbanger idiot in Detroit shot a 7 yr old girl in the head some 6 times and she lived, I am assuming his wimpy 9mm ammo was old degraded stuff. Or something...
    A shot in the head with a 9mm will more than do the job, especially with a hollow point. But let's not forget that a shot to the heart will do just as well. And you can always aim for the throat, hit the jugular and your BG is dad before he hits the pavement. As for that gangbanger in Detroit, he should receive a nice shotgun blast to his head and be buried in an unmarked grave. People who harm children have no use in this world and forfeit their right to life when they do so.

  20. #20
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    A head shot, center brain, is instant drop. Go to liveleak or other such for videos showing Iraqi excecutions, surveilance camera stuff, stuff caught on camera in general, of people shot in the head. The fewI have seen show them just drop. I have also personally shot trapped animals in the head, being it is the most humane way. Raccoons do this reflexive rolling thing, but they are unconcious instantly however. Foxes just drop.

    I'd rather head shoot some crazed BG than chest shot. They can't keep coming at you when a bullet has gone through their brain. They can be heart shot and still combative for several seconds.

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    XD40coyote wrote:
    LMAO, I think it means that the recoil is too much or something and you can't hit squat, but let me tell you, .40 is same recoil as .45 as far as I can tell( my experience is XD40 4" to 5" 1911)and most shooters seem to be able to deal with it LOL- heck I am a woman and can fire a .40 and a .45 and actually hit the target LOL

    The 9mm part of the cartoon is LMAO though- so true LOL he he he- a friend of mine andI are always making jokes about weak 9mm LOL- its good for target shooting if you want to spend more money than .22's LOL

    However .22 long rifle is kickass on small game animals, and 9mm would be ok for pesky varmints like barn raccoons and close quarter groundhogs LOL
    Actually, IMO, I'm not sure i would place alot of trust the stopping power of a 9mm either....

    Real-life Experience;


    This past summer, while visiting a friend's farm, we were chatting out front of the garage planning to take some shots @ groundhogs with my new .17HMR rifle. (VERY VERY effective on hogs btw.) While heading out to the field (to my normal hogsniping position by the tractor lol) I actually tripped over a grounhog, who got pretty pissed off @ my actions. I drew my concealed Springfield XD 3" 9mm and fed him 6, 115gr Hydra-shoks, at distaces ranging from appx. 5' to 9', moving, (6 out of 8 shots ) to which he pretty much shrugged off managing to run another 40 some yards until he finally collapsed.

    Now, I'm not bashing calibers here, as I have 3 XD's Chambered in 9mm But, in my opinion, precise shot placement is a big factor with the 9mm IMHO. In my normal activities, I OC my XD45 Tactical or the 4" G20 10mm.

    As for my girlfriend, she proudly carries (OC when she can) her G33 .357 SIG which IMHO is a very controllable yet very effective/powerful round. It posesses very similar ballistics to that of the .357 Magnum, in an automatic handgun.


    ~~Springfield

    Edited for spelling by Springfield

  22. #22
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Thats a hell of a tough groundhog! I know this lady whos brother gave her a Walther P4 ( thats what she said it is) 9mm. She asked me if it would be good on groundhogs, I said yeah, but you gotta be pretty close to them. Hmm, now I need to tell her about these cracked out groundhogs LOL

    Somewhere I read someone shot 1 with a .40 hydrashock or some other very damaging hollowpoint, and it gutted it out through the exit hole. Is that possible, or was this guy BSing?

    A few weeks ago I wish I could have had things lined up right soI could have tried nailing a red fox killing one of my ducks. It would have been interesting to see what a .40 hornandy TAPS hp might have done- blow a big exit hole I am sure. Alas, I wasn't just carrying anything at the time and by the time I ran for something and came back, the fox was gone. Plus the yardage was a lil futher than I am used to, so I might have missed or blown a hole in its leg or something stupid.

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    A good gun is like a good wife.

    Everyone can tell you which kind you really need, but you're the one who has to live with your decision.

    Unlike your wife, your new gun will not care how many guns you have tried out previously.
    Best analogy EVER

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