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Thread: Open carry when a police officer knocks

  1. #1
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    I just had a good encounter with a police officer this evening. I called in a suspicious character from "Verizon" who had knocked on my door (8:00 Friday night) asking when I might be home next week to schedule a line being laid. I don't even have Verizon service. I asked for an officer to contact me when one got into the area.

    After about 15 minutes I heard another knock on my door. I went to the door with my Browning on my hip as I always do and this time it was the officer.

    I opened the door a little and told him that I wanted to step back inside and remove my weapon. He said to not worry about it as if he fully trusted me. I stepped out and crossed my arms so I wouldn't make him nervous and he seemed relaxed the entire time and even called off his backup who was parked out front. This was all within about one minute of being at my door.

    The rest of the event was trivial but it was refreshing that he was so casual about it. I have had similar situations like this over the years so I can now add another data point to my experiences. So far I've not had even one bad experience and none have ever asked me to disarm. Pretty cool.

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    Great contact!

    It might not hurt to send an appreciative note.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Great story. Kudos to you for offering to disarm and him for trusting you.

    It reminded me of a story I had almost forgotten. I had been receiving threatening calls at my home (I lived just outside Denver at the time). One night I heard a sound that sounded like someone at the front door. It continued, but I had no vantage point of the door. I called 911.

    The dispatcher asked address and name, of course. Then she asked if I had a gun. I said "yes" and she said "OK, I'm going to keep you on the line. I'll let you know when the officer is at your door." She was very calm, and never once tried to talk me out of keeping the weapon. When the officer arrived, I told her I was placing the gun on the table, pointed away from the door, and answering the door. The officer didn't even have his hand on his weapon when I opened the door.

    Never did find out what was going on, but I never got another threatening call there, either.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess wrote:
    Never did find out what was going on, but I never got another threatening call there, either.
    Are you suggesting the police were in on the threatening phone calls and decided to stop once they knew you had a firearm?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Naw. Interesting take; I hadn't thought of that.

    I think I know who it was. Mind you, this was LOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG before the days of calelr ID. But after that it was over and done with, so I let it go.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Just a little OT on the shady verizon people offering to set you up with Fiber Optics...

    I used to sell fiber optics door to door for awhile during my senior year in college. I went around and made installation "appointments" that required no secured financial commitment. Good money and easy work (120$ commission per sale) and as I pointed out often to the customer, there was no cash or credit card necessary to have this FUTURISTIC, STATE OF THE ART system installed in your house.

    but I digress..

    Teams are often encouraged to walk door to door until past daylight hours. I always left after 5pm because I hated irritating people during their dinner hours.

    Always felt bad for the ethnic guys on our team -- no one wants to open the door for a black guy in an urban area past daylight hours.

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    Why did you offer to remove your weapon? It's your house no need to do it just for the cops? Not attacking you, but I would think your home of all places would be the easiest to carry. I guess I would have just told the cop that I was armed, but not offered to remove my weapon.

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    Just out of courtesy. I've dealt with cops before, even off my property, and wore it in plainsite. It was just convenient to do so at the time and out of courtesy.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Great contact!

    It might not hurt to send an appreciative note.
    + 1

    We tend to jump all over po-po when they act up, but we should also give them their due when they respect "the right."

    (and yes I know that should always be doing that in the first place, but using the theory of positive reinforcement. . ."
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    ChinChin wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Great contact!

    It might not hurt to send an appreciative note.
    + 1

    We tend to jump all over po-po when they act up, but we should also give them their due when they respect "the right."

    (and yes I know that should always be doing that in the first place, but using the theory of positive reinforcement. . ."
    correct!!! I just wouldn't have offered to disarm but that's just me.

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    HardChrome wrote:
    Just out of courtesy. ... It was just convenient to do so at the time and out of courtesy.
    Beware of the paradigm of consideration-expectation-requirement, 'Courtesy' being a consideration, else it become a requirement to disarm in the presence of a LEO.

    They must expect the Good Guys always armed!

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    HardChrome wrote:
    I opened the door a little and told him that I wanted to step back inside and remove my weapon. He said to not worry about it as if he fully trusted me. I stepped out and crossed my arms so I wouldn't make him nervous and he seemed relaxed the entire time and even called off his backup who was parked out front.
    I don't understand the whole "remove my weapon thing" - I would of probably just had a cup of coffee in my carry side hand, said howdy, and invited him in or joined him on the porch.

    Not trying to flame you specifically, but generally, why make an issue of somthing when its not an issue?

    Consider the folks who complain when an officer disarms them at a traffic stop after the driver optionally decides to inform the officer he is armed or provides a carry permit - many of these cases would not happen if folks just acted "normal."

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    Just a note about impersonators

    Up here in Alleghany county we had a lady almost get abducted by a perp who had all appearances of being a cop... Dont ever let your guard down

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    It's just the way it unfolded. He was standing to the side of the door in such a way that I could not see him at first so I was approaching in a very cautious manner. If I had been concealing like I do most of the time then it would not have been an issue.

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    I say it was a great gesture.

    You did not know why the officer was there needing to speak with you and decided it might be best to put your gun away.

    Nothing wrong with that at all.

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    I have had two occasions when a police officer (and officers) came onto my property; one as a result of my 911 call and one who was looking for my youngest daughter to interview her about one of her friends. In both cases, I was armed and in neither case was there any sort of problem. And this was in God-foresaken Arlington, Va no less!

    The way I look at it is this. If an officer comes onto my property and I happen to be armed, that is both my right and my business (same thing if I am off of my property but just a bit more within the confines of my own curtilage). However, out of deference to the officer, I will most likely inform him or let him see that I am armed. The reason I take this position is because LEO's have to deal with most every type of human behavior and demographics, from the best to the worse. And the deal with more of the worse than the other simply because the better members of society are not as prone to confrontation as are those closer to the bottom of the barrel. Sure, he can see what type of house I live in and the neighborhood surrounding it. But he may not know me from Adam and has every right to expect bad things until proven otherwise. So I will "work" with him and make sure all is well in the ordinance department so he feels that I am not a threat or a loose cannon.

    And then there is this. I live in a very small town which has its own police force. Treat them right and get on their good side and it can work to your advantage should anything ever happen. I won't disarm, but I will make sure they are aware of my weapon so that there are no surprises.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Well said!

    Sure... you have every right to carry on your own property.... nobody can argue that. But for me.. it is just like when someone I stop tells me.. I have a CC permit and I am armed.

    They did not have to tell me and I do appreciate it. I will not order them out and remove it. You are just telling the officer.. so he will know that you are both armed.

    The cops have to worry enough now with kids shooting up malls with dad's AK-47 and such. When you call the police and have them respond to your address they have to worry about a setup or ambush too.



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    LEO229 wrote: SNIP "They did not have to tell me and I do appreciate it. I will not order them out and remove it. You are just telling the officer.. so he will know that you are both armed."


    Part of the problem is that police and well-meaning citizens sometimes over-look the fact that there are rude, abusive,rights-infringing, etc. police.

    Once the notification leaves your lips, you can't take it back if you only then discover its an abusive police officer.

    You have no way of knowing at the outset of an encounter if the niceofficer you're facing is going to become rude, mistreat you, seize your weapon, run the serial number, etc. later in the encounter, say, after you notify him you are carrying. Unless he is not a stranger, or perhaps its small-town USA where you reside.

    The bottom line is that it is dangerous to assume the cop is a good guy. The danger may be very mild, which would mean itis a small risk to take. It may be higher, for example if you have a third-hand gunthat was, unknown to you,reported stolen by a previous owner and the officer decides to run the serial number because its "just routine, you don't mind do you, sir?"

    Its up to each how much risk he wants to take in dealing with police. Part of the problem is thatyou may not have all the information you need at the beginning of an encounter to evaluate whether the risk is small or large.

    The 4th and 5th Amendment are there for our protection. Might as well practice using them. One can be very friendly while asserting one's rights.

    Courtesy when you are holding all the cards on your own property is one thing. Its a little different when you're not holding all the cards. Included isthat at the outset of an encounter, you may not even know which cardsyou and the officer are holding--except that you are always holding some aces: the 4th and 5th Amendment.

    Play them well.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Don't forget the 2nd and the 9th and 10th Amendments, too.

    You're right in your assessment. My take is quite simple. I want the police to think I am one of the good guys. I will not patronize them nor will I flaunt the carrying of my weapon in their face just because I have the right to carry. They have a difficult job, balancing the honoring of the rights of all citizens while separating the good ones from the not-so-good ones so that they can go home at night to their families. We do make strong demands upon them and that is as it should be. We do not want a police state nor do we need to have a vast chasm between our LEOs and we to whom they are accountable. I would hate to see what happened in New Orleans after Katrina take place here in Virginia.

    I have only run across one officer who I found to be arrogant and power-crazed appearing and he was an Arlington motor cop. All others have been just fine as far as I'm concerned.

    I have found that if I act and carry myself in the proper manner (respectful and civil), I have no problems with anyone when OC'ing. It just doesn't seem to be an issue.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Way back before I owned firearms,and was really on the second ammendment/self defense thing, I called the cops on my roommate (heard a bunch of banging,and he just happened to come home when it was going on.) and they asked if I had any weapons to put them away,and come let the officers in. It makes me mad now thinking about it, b/c I was locked in my room, but if I was to go unlock the door "disarmed" as they asked me to,and had a confrontation,....

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    Citizen wrote:
    The 4th and 5th Amendment are there for our protection. Might as well practice using them. One can be very friendly while asserting one's rights.
    Had the officer asked me about the legality of my weapon I would have immediately questioned his need to have that information based on everything you just said.

    I had an officer many years ago see my concealed pistol as I bent over. He asked if that was a weapon. I told him that it was and that I had a CCW permit and asked if he wanted to see it. He did and I showed it to him.

    What followed was a debate over the jurisdiction of that permit. Even after making two calls downtown, he was not convinced that it was legal in his county. He "let me go" and "let me keep my weapon" but told me that I needed to double check the accuracy of my understanding. I politely suggested that he do the same.

    He was abrand new officer so I figured that he got a little education eventually. He was decent but I was prepared to exert my rights.

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    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    Way back before I owned firearms,and was really on the second ammendment/self defense thing, I called the cops on my roommate (heard a bunch of banging,and he just happened to come home when it was going on.) and they asked if I had any weapons to put them away,and come let the officers in. It makes me mad now thinking about it, b/c I was locked in my room, but if I was to go unlock the door "disarmed" as they asked me to,and had a confrontation,....
    I think this is one of those situations where an honest error could have been made on the part of the dispatcher or the officers. You know--something like the dispatcher didn't quite tell the officers that a burglar might be inside the house, so when they arrive the officersradio the dispatcher to ask you to let them in.

    I think sometimes we have to assume someelement of the message didn't get through or wasn't recognized, and be patient about having to resend that part of the message.Anduse judgement about following police requests, even orders. "Get down, NOW!!" "Not on thathill of fire-ants, Officer."

    I do like the assumption that you might have aweaponfor home defense!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    HardChrome,

    Your profile says Newport News...so I am guessing it was the NNPD?

  24. #24
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    The two incidents I mentioned earlier regarding an officer (and officers) coming on my property were as follows.

    Incident #1

    In 1997 when my oldest daughter graduated with her master's from James Madison, she came home with us that evening. Her boyfriend (now husband) decided to go out with a friend and celebrate a little. So around 1:00am, my daughter was awakened by a scary sound. She came into our master bedroom and told my wife and I that it sounded like someone was throwing pebbles or stones against her window. Just as she was telling us this, several loud bangs/knocks occurred against a basement window.. the one I had always felt would be the one someone might break to enter the house.

    Immediately, I grabbed my gun (a Taurus PT92C) and a phone and headed to the living room where I had control over the basement stairs door. I called 911 and this is basically what transpired.

    Arl: 911, what is your emergency?
    Me: I think someone is trying to break into my house.
    Arl: What is your name and address?
    Me: <giving the info>
    Arl: Where is the noise coming from?
    Me: The basement.
    Arl: Ok, I've notified officers in the area and they're on the way. Do you have a weapon?
    Me: Yes.
    Arl: What is it?
    Me: A handgun.
    Arl: Do you have it with you?
    Me: Yes.
    Arl: Ok, that's fine. When the officers get there just don't shoot through the window.
    Me: (laughing a little) No, I wouldn't do that.

    When the officers got there, I opened the door and identified myself as the homeowner. I then took them around the side of the house to the window from where the loud banging had come from.

    It all turned out to be my daughter's boyfriend (who was gone from the scene). He and his friend had a little too much to drink and he decided he wanted to see my daughter.


    Incident #2

    Around 6:20am one Sunday morning, someone knocked loudly on my front door. I grabbed my gun (a Smith & Wesson 411) and headed to the living room. Leaning at an abrupt angle, I was able to see the officer through the door window without him seeing me. I opened the door and he identified himself and asked if my youngest daughter was in and if so, could he speak with her. I said she was and let him in. As I did, I put my gun on a speaker and motioned to him that it was there. He said, "that's fine.. no problem".

    Turned out that a close friend of my daughter had run away from home because of an argue between her and her mother, and she had not returned home. The mother was worried and called the police, giving my daughter's name as someone who might know where she was. Everything turned out fine.

    Both of these incidents occurred when we lived in Arlington, Va.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO229 wrote: SNIP "They did not have to tell me and I do appreciate it. I will not order them out and remove it. You are just telling the officer.. so he will know that you are both armed."


    Part of the problem is that police and well-meaning citizens sometimes over-look the fact that there are rude, abusive,rights-infringing, etc. police.

    Once the notification leaves your lips, you can't take it back if you only then discover its an abusive police officer.

    You have no way of knowing at the outset of an encounter if the niceofficer you're facing is going to become rude, mistreat you, seize your weapon, run the serial number, etc. later in the encounter, say, after you notify him you are carrying. Unless he is not a stranger, or perhaps its small-town USA where you reside.

    The bottom line is that it is dangerous to assume the cop is a good guy. The danger may be very mild, which would mean itis a small risk to take. It may be higher, for example if you have a third-hand gunthat was, unknown to you,reported stolen by a previous owner and the officer decides to run the serial number because its "just routine, you don't mind do you, sir?"

    Its up to each how much risk he wants to take in dealing with police. Part of the problem is thatyou may not have all the information you need at the beginning of an encounter to evaluate whether the risk is small or large.

    The 4th and 5th Amendment are there for our protection. Might as well practice using them. One can be very friendly while asserting one's rights.

    Courtesy when you are holding all the cards on your own property is one thing. Its a little different when you're not holding all the cards. Included isthat at the outset of an encounter, you may not even know which cardsyou and the officer are holding--except that you are always holding some aces: the 4th and 5th Amendment.

    Play them well.


    Come on...

    You can tell the moment the are at your window.

    Allow me to educate you...

    Boy... I need to see your License, Registration, Proof of insurance.... NOW!

    I stopped you for doin' 70 in a 65 and you got no front tag..... Give me your license and proof of insurance.

    You 'iz in my county now... Give me yo' license and keep 'dem hands where I can see 'um~!



    Better just keep your yap shut if you were this type of talk.

    If the officer walks up and does the following:


    • Greeting of the day
    • Provides name
    • Provides department name
    • Identifies why you were stopped
    • Asks if there is a valid reason you were breaking the law
    • Speaks in a normal tone of voice
    • Willing to hear you speak
    • Does not demand your license right away
    There you have a professional.

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