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Thread: Safely carrying a hot chamber

  1. #1
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    I am considering an Open Carry pistol. I want it to be either .40 or .45 caliber, and I want to be able to safely carry a hot chamber.

    I am currently looking at the Walther P99AS .40S&W, and I think I like the concept of its DA/SA operation. I think the Beretta Px4 uses the same method. Something about the first round being DA and all remaining firings being SA?

    I don't want to spend more than $800.

    I've always liked the 1911s, but I don't want to carry hammer back cocked-and-locked in public.

    I prefer a semi-automatic over a revolver.

    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.



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    I'm not sure whata "hot chamber" is. Are you concerned about thermal discharge from rapid-firing rounds and then leaving a live one in the barrel? Or do you mean something that will take "hot loads" of +P type ammo? Or just walking around with a live round "in the pipe" generally?

    -ljp

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    I'd carry what you want. If you prefer a 1911 go ahead an carry that. Somebody who would get upset about you 'having the hammer back' wouldn't care if it's a 1911 or a Glock.

    Glocks have a 'weird' trigger. It's techincally DAO iirc. But it's really kindof like a DA/SA, you just have to practice with it. The trigger 'resets' before it actually completely comes to rest. So if you practice you can get the reset point into muscle memory and shoot from there.

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    shamalama wrote:
    ...I've always liked the 1911s, but I don't want to carry hammer back cocked-and-locked in public...

    Are you concerned about public perception or safety? If it's the former, then most wouldn't be able to tell the difference (and who cares anyway). If it's the latter, there are two external safeties. If you still don't want to carry a 1911, then I can suggest a Springfield XD .45. Good luck.

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    I'd go with a Beretta 92 or 96. (92 is 9mm, 96 is 40S&W).

    The Beretta is a good Double Action / Single Action pistol. You could do like the US Military does when they carry it.

    1. Rack the slide chambering a round. The pistol is now in Single Action
    2. Depress the decock/saftey lever and flip it back up
    3. The pistol is now in Double Action and will take a long hard trigger pull to fire a round.
    4. The next shots will take a light quick single action trigger press.

    Berettas are well made and very accurate.

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    soloban wrote:
    I'd go with a Beretta 92 or 96. (92 is 9mm, 96 is 40S&W).

    The Beretta is a good Double Action / Single Action pistol. You could do like the US Military does when they carry it.

    1. Rack the slide chambering a round. The pistol is now in Single Action
    2. Depress the decock/saftey lever and flip it back up
    3. The pistol is now in Double Action and will take a long hard trigger pull to fire a round.
    4. The next shots will take a light quick single action trigger press.

    Berettas are well made and very accurate.
    That's exactly what I do w/ my Bersa...I can't comprehend why anybody w/ a DA/SA pistol would carry w/out a round in the chamber.

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    First double-tap...my bad

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    shamalama wrote:
    I am considering an Open Carry pistol. I want it to be either .40 or .45 caliber, and I want to be able to safely carry a hot chamber.

    I am currently looking at the Walther P99AS .40S&W, and I think I like the concept of its DA/SA operation. I think the Beretta Px4 uses the same method. Something about the first round being DA and all remaining firings being SA?

    I don't want to spend more than $800.

    I've always liked the 1911s, but I don't want to carry hammer back cocked-and-locked in public.

    I prefer a semi-automatic over a revolver.

    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    Most Sig Sauer versions use DA/SA and have no safety. I love my P229, it loves me, and is the best gun I've ever owned. Don't overlook them, however they are slightly more expensive than other brands and are just out of your price range.

    My brother-in-law is Slovakian and swears up and down for CZ. CZs are a slightly cheaper equivalent to SIGs. Like SIGs, they also have steel frames, are DA/SA, reliable, and have almost identical weights, size, structure, and trigger pulls.

    I think the CZ 75 Compact is the equivalent to the SIG p229. Though its being succeeded by the CZ 75 P01.

    CZ 75 P01:
    http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=28


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    I'll second that, CZ's are good looking guns. American Handgunner had an article on the CZ 75 in the Sept/Oct 07 Edition.

    http://www.cz-usa.com/data/downloads...talog%2007.pdf

    CZ75 in Stainless is a pretty good looking gun. Kind of looks like a HiPower.

    According to their 2007 Product Brochure the CZ75 goes for $500-$600



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    I carry a 1911 in Condition 1 all the time - although I've met one or two people who were uncomfortable about somebody having a gun in the first place, I've never had anybody express concern about the cocked hammer. Honestly, if somebody is so ignorant about guns that they'd be frightened of a cocked hammer on a 1911, they probably wouldn't even be sufficiently knowledgeable to visually identify the gun's condition anyway.

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    nickerj1 wrote:
    shamalama wrote:
    I am considering an Open Carry pistol. I want it to be either .40 or .45 caliber, and I want to be able to safely carry a hot chamber.

    I am currently looking at the Walther P99AS .40S&W, and I think I like the concept of its DA/SA operation. I think the Beretta Px4 uses the same method. Something about the first round being DA and all remaining firings being SA?

    I don't want to spend more than $800.

    I've always liked the 1911s, but I don't want to carry hammer back cocked-and-locked in public.

    I prefer a semi-automatic over a revolver.

    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    Most Sig Sauer versions use DA/SA and have no safety. I love my P229, it loves me, and is the best gun I've ever owned. Don't overlook them, however they are slightly more expensive than other brands and are just out of your price range.

    My brother-in-law is Slovakian and swears up and down for CZ. CZs are a slightly cheaper equivalent to SIGs. Like SIGs, they also have steel frames, are DA/SA, reliable, and have almost identical weights, size, structure, and trigger pulls.

    I think the CZ 75 Compact is the equivalent to the SIG p229. Though its being succeeded by the CZ 75 P01.

    CZ 75 P01:
    http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=28
    When I read the original post, I immediately thought of either a Sig P229 (.40) or a P220 Carry (.45). They are perfectly safe to carry with a loaded chamber, and fire the first round DA, then subsequent shots are fired from a SA position, due to the slides motion cocking the hammer on those shots. Handy decocking lever helps safely lower the cocked hammer after charging the gun, or in between strings of shots. I have owned a P245 in the past and it did everything I ever told it to do. Great guns. It's fairly easy to find a lightly used P229 for around $550-600 and then a holster and some good defensive ammo, and you'd still be within your $800 range.

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    Legba wrote:
    I'm not sure whata "hot chamber" is. Are you concerned about thermal discharge from rapid-firing rounds and then leaving a live one in the barrel? Or do you mean something that will take "hot loads" of +P type ammo? Or just walking around with a live round "in the pipe" generally?

    -ljp
    One in the pipe generally. Having the ability to un-holster and fire with as little extra motion as possible while having a safe weapon.

    My concealed gun is double action only, with a long stiff trigger pull that disengages a hammer block about 3/4 of the way through the pull before the gun can even think about firing. So as long as the trigger is not accidently pulled then the firing pin cannot touch the round. No "bump" is going to accidently fire the weapon nor disengage the DAO safety.


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    soloban wrote:
    I'd go with a Beretta 92 or 96. (92 is 9mm, 96 is 40S&W).

    The Beretta is a good Double Action / Single Action pistol. You could do like the US Military does when they carry it.

    1. Rack the slide chambering a round. The pistol is now in Single Action
    2. Depress the decock/saftey lever and flip it back up
    3. The pistol is now in Double Action and will take a long hard trigger pull to fire a round.
    4. The next shots will take a light quick single action trigger press.

    Berettas are well made and very accurate.
    That's EXACTLY what my Marine son told me. Personally he owns a Glock in .40 and a Springfield 1911, but in the Corps he used a Beretta.



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    I own several Glocks and highly recommend them along with the Serpa Blackhawk holster. The only way that you can fire a Glock is to pull the trigger. I have a book on Glocks and one of the torture tests these guys did was fire a Glock with a primered round in the chamber out of a cannon. After it was launched 900 feet they retrieved it, pulled the trigger, and fired the primer on the round. I recommend the Serpa because it is a solid polymer holster that locks the gun in place and you cannot affect the trigger when it is in the holster. Plus to retrieve it, you simply press a button on the side with your trigger finger and it releases smooth as glass. Also, Berettas are excellent guns. I have a 90-Two and in addition ot a manual safety/decocker, it also has a half-cocked safety so that say you wanted to cock the hammer and your finger slipped on the hammer, it would stop before striking the firing pin so long as your finger is not pulling on the trigger. Happy Hunting!

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    shamalama wrote:
    I am considering an Open Carry pistol. I want it to be either .40 or .45 caliber, and I want to be able to safely carry a hot chamber.

    To safely carry a "hot chamber", don't pull the trigger.

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    You might want to look at the Paraordnance Light Double Action. It is a 1911 style gun that has an action similar to a Glock. Like any 1911 it has two safeties the thumb safety and a grip safety. It also has an internal device that holds the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. It is a double action onlydesign that you carry with the hammer down, but internally the mainspring is pre-cocked. So, it's trigger pull is light.

    I have the CCO version which is the same size as Colt officer's. I personally think it is one off the safest designs out there. I got it to carry on a motorcycle. Because if I ended up thrown off the bike the last thing I need is for my gun to go off adding to my injuries. I prefer 1911 style guns however I didn't think they were safe enough for this use. This gun shoots much like a 1911 with a light trigger pull that is longer then a regular single action. Being double action only the trigger pull on every shot is the same unlike the DA/SA design.

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    K I couldn't focus long enough to read all the responses, but I didn't see anyone else mention that the P99 is a dang good pistol. I carry the SW99 in .40, which is almost identical to the P99. They're great guns. I like the SA/DA as well...in fact I really don't like the DOA actions. You first double action shot should not be any less accurate than your following shots as long as you practice appropriately, and the heavier trigger pull helps prevent accidental discharges.

    As far as the 1911 goes, everyone else already said it. The gun is meant to be carried SAFELY hammer back, safety on. If someone questions you about that, than they don't know crap about guns in the first place and need to shut their mouths.

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    Get a Sig 220. DA/SA with a decocker. Has a firing pin disconnect, so the trigger MUST be back for it to fire.

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    shamalama wrote:
    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    The way I've been taught about Glocks is put a set of quality night sights on it and leave the rest alone.

    I keep my 19 w/a round in the chamber all of the time & have never had an issue.

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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    shamalama wrote:
    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    The way I've been taught about Glocks is put a set of quality night sights on it and leave the rest alone.

    I keep my 19 w/a round in the chamber all of the time & have never had an issue.
    I know a lot of Glock lovers will argue this one with me.But, every LEO negligent discharge I have heard about has been a Glock or Glock clone (S&W Sigma or M&P).

    I know they can't fire without putting your finger inside the trigger guard. But, this is exactly what happened in these ND incidents. Having a light trigger pull and no external safeties they are very easy to fire while handling with your finger on the trigger.

    I know this is a rule you are never supposed to break. But these incidents do show that it does happen even among supposedly highly trained professionals. This iswhy I think guns with external safeties like 1911's or heavy DA trigger pulls are safer to carry with a loaded chamber.

    MY Utah CCW instructor chose to carry his Glock unloaded by UT law. He was very familiar with Glocks and was considered kind of strange for this. But, he chose the extra safety of carrying it without a round in the chamber over the speed of having it quicker to fire. He also practiced cocking drills including one where he purposely chose snag type sights and was able to cock one handed quickly by snagging the sight on his belt.

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    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    I hope this is a joke, if not your instructor NEEDS instruction.
    Not a joke.

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    I know a lot of Glock lovers will argue this one with me.But, every LEO negligent discharge I have heard about has been a Glock or Glock clone (S&W Sigma or M&P).

    I know they can't fire without putting your finger inside the trigger guard. But, this is exactly what happened in these ND incidents. Having a light trigger pull and no external safeties they are very easy to fire while handling with your finger on the trigger.

    I know this is a rule you are never supposed to break. But these incidents do show that it does happen even among supposedly highly trained professionals. This iswhy I think guns with external safeties like 1911's or heavy DA trigger pulls are safer to carry with a loaded chamber.

    MY Utah CCW instructor chose to carry his Glock unloaded by UT law. He was very familiar with Glocks and was considered kind of strange for this. But, he chose the extra safety of carrying it without a round in the chamber over the speed of having it quicker to fire. He also practiced cocking drills including one where he purposely chose snag type sights and was able to cock one handed quickly by snagging the sight on his belt.

    My "worst nightmare" is having a DA/SA-trained officer "disarm" me of my 1911 for "officer safety" during a traffic stop or otherwise. "So to put it on safe, I'll just push this lever down on the side and pull the trigger. " (BOOM)

    Being an LEO DOESN'T mean you're automatically a gun-expert.

    As for your "instructor:" if that's his mindset, I don't think I could "learn" SQUAT from that guy. Does he empty his gas tank every time he gets out of his car, too?

    And thus we see again, how someone's twisted view of reality has been submitted, instructed, and accepted as doctrine, no matter if it's right or not. I was told once by an "instructor" that I would be an expert on how to clear auto malfunctions, (because I was carrying a GLOCK 20 at the time) and I replied that I've never had a malfunction in ANY Glock. This was coming from a blackpowder shooter that "needs to fully clean his gun after every 6-8 rounds." You should have seen the look on his face when I told him that one of our rental G17's hadn't been cleaned (besides the outside wiped down) in 15K+ rounds and still hadn't experienced a malfunction. But I was there to be insulted-----er, sorry "instructed" by HIM. Yeah, uh huh!


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    I'm not sure I'd trust an instructor who understands training methods so little he can't train himself to not put his finger in the trigger guard unless he intends to fire. Sad, in a way.

    For anyone whose instructor lacked ability in this direction, or is having trouble,it is just a matter of deliberately practicing it in a deliberate practice session for that one thing. Nothing else is needed--no magic chants,no trances,no psuedo-scientific mumbo-jumbo needed.Its quite easy.

    One had to learn sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control and practice them from some initial point of zero knowledge and experience, right? Finger placementis no different.

    Just deliberately practice handling the weapon while keeping the forefinger on the frame. Put it down, pick it up, put it down in a new spot, pick it up, etc. Keep doing it until you've got it. You'll possibly find the old habit wanting to creep back in during the succeeding week. Justgive yourselfanother practice session.

    The same thing worksfor keeping it pointed in a safe direction. Spendten minutes making the outlines of large capital letters in the air, angling your wrist so the weapon is always pointedstraight and level"down-range."Give yourself a few practice sessions of this until you've got it.

    Dislaimer: It goes without saying that the practice weapon needs to be unloaded, checked for clear, and re-checked for clear before commencing practice.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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  24. #24
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    shamalama wrote:
    I am considering an Open Carry pistol. I want it to be either .40 or .45 caliber, and I want to be able to safely carry a hot chamber.

    I am currently looking at the Walther P99AS .40S&W, and I think I like the concept of its DA/SA operation. I think the Beretta Px4 uses the same method. Something about the first round being DA and all remaining firings being SA?

    I don't want to spend more than $800.

    I've always liked the 1911s, but I don't want to carry hammer back cocked-and-locked in public.

    I prefer a semi-automatic over a revolver.

    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    I carry a Springfield XD-40 Service and have alwayscarry witha round in the chamber. I've never felt that I was being unsafe either.

    As for your concerns/requirements for a carry pistol:

    The XD has a long initial take-up on the trigger and after the first shot the trigger has a short reset so it is similar to a DA/SA in that respect. The trigger also has a trigger safety similar to the one on a Glock.

    It's under $600 for a new XD. The XD comes in 9mm,357SIG,.40SW, and .45 caliber and sub-compact (3"), service (4")and tactical (5")models

    There is no hammer as it is a striker fired weapon. If you like the 1911 you will like the XD's grip angle and the grip safety. I really like the grip safety because many of the Glock NDs I have heard about were caused by something snagging the trigger during re holstering. With the XD all you have to do is placethe thumb of your shooting hand on the back of the slide and the grip safety is disengaged so it will not fire.

    Check them out and see if you like them.

  25. #25
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    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    shamalama wrote:
    I know absolutely nothing about Glocks.

    The way I've been taught about Glocks is put a set of quality night sights on it and leave the rest alone.

    I keep my 19 w/a round in the chamber all of the time & have never had an issue.
    I know a lot of Glock lovers will argue this one with me.But, every LEO negligent discharge I have heard about has been a Glock or Glock clone (S&W Sigma or M&P).

    I know they can't fire without putting your finger inside the trigger guard. But, this is exactly what happened in these ND incidents. Having a light trigger pull and no external safeties they are very easy to fire while handling with your finger on the trigger.

    I know this is a rule you are never supposed to break. But these incidents do show that it does happen even among supposedly highly trained professionals. This iswhy I think guns with external safeties like 1911's or heavy DA trigger pulls are safer to carry with a loaded chamber.

    MY Utah CCW instructor chose to carry his Glock unloaded by UT law. He was very familiar with Glocks and was considered kind of strange for this. But, he chose the extra safety of carrying it without a round in the chamber over the speed of having it quicker to fire. He also practiced cocking drills including one where he purposely chose snag type sights and was able to cock one handed quickly by snagging the sight on his belt.
    I hope this is a joke, if not your instructor NEEDS instruction.
    +1 my Glock shooting brother!

    Most officers only go to the range when it's time to do the qualifications, so they've got very little weapon system knowledge.

    Without a round in the chamber, one is very likely to just pull the trigger when the stuff goes south. Then when the gun goes click, you've just wasted how much time?

    Even the Israelis don't "Israeli-carry" anymore.

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