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Thread: Traveling to Florida... should I carry my gun?

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    I am going to be visting family in florida in early January. I am 19 years old, am working on obtaining a CC permit from Maine, and carry open in Idaho about 90% of the time.

    So my question is... Should I even bother to bring the gun with me to Florida? Does Maine have reciprocity or is there some way in which i could carry without a permit (i.e. Utah style, no mag in gun, in a locked case... etc)

    I don't like the thought of being without my weapon but I also don't want to get into a fight with officers from a state who's laws i'm not familer with. Any thoughts?

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    well, for starters, open carry is prohibited here in FL, and CC holders must be 21 years of age to carry concealed. As far as carrying in a locked case, etc. I don't think that's permitted unless you're carrying your gun to/from hunting, fishing, camping, or a target range.

    However, because I'm not a legal authority, and my knowledge is not 100% regarding this issue, I encourage you to look over Florida Statute 790 here: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0/titl0790.htm

    good luck, and hopefully someone else might be able to spread more light on the issue for you.

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    I think you would be able to keep a gun in the glovebox of your car, but you will not be able to carry. Even if you had your ccw in another state that FL has reciprocity with, FL law about only carrying if you're 21 would still apply. You cannot open carry in FL, and carrying it in a case with you around would be considered concealed.

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    Here's what I wrote on another thread:

    Pursuant to Florida Statute §790.015, Florida only recognizes licenses issued to residents of reciprocal states who are at least 21 years old. However, under §790.25(5), a person who is at least 18 years old may carry a "securely encased" firearm in a vehicle without a license. According to the Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services (Florida's CCW licensing agency) (FAQ #6 on the Florida reciprocity page:

    I am planning a trip to Florida shortly. I do not have a permit from my home state nor do I want to obtain a Florida permit. However, I would still like to have a weapon with me for self-protection. What are my options?
    Florida law does allow a citizen to transport a weapon in a private vehicle, even if that citizen DOES NOT HAVE a concealed weapon license. Note the following two key provisions in the law:

    Section 790.25(5), which deals specifically with possession in a private conveyance states that "it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012." (Emphasis added.)

    Section 790.001(17) defines the term "securely encased" to mean "in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."

    So, while you cannot carry the weapon on your person, you can at least have it nearby in your vehicle while traveling.
    You should bear in mind that unlawfully carrying a concealed firearm in Florida is a felony under §790.01(2) and open carry is unlawful under §790.053. With the exception of legal, "securely encased" car carry, you have no means of legally carrying a gun in Florida until you are 21 years old.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    Ok so if I am undestanding right, I can carry my handgun in the car with me so long as it is (at minimum) kept in either the glove box or in some type of hard holster. Does the gun have to be unloaded? (By loaded I mean mag in the gun and round in the chamber)

    If it needs to be unloaded, does that mean that i can keep the mag in the gun if the chamber is empty or do i need to remove the mag as well?

    Finally, if I do have to carry unloaded, does Florida have any statutes regarding carrying ammunition in a vehicle or about my person assuming that my gun is secured in a holster or in my glove box?

    Thanks for the help everyone!

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    I've never heard of having to keep the gun unloaded while in the car, as described in posts above. If I remember correctly, the reason for that is that a number of years ago, there was some car-jacking or kidnapping from a car (don't remember exactly what), so the state passed legislation to allow gun owners to carry loaded weapons in vehicle's glove compartments so that your ordinary citizen could fight back if the situation ever arose again.

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    There's a lot of real estate between Maine and Florida if your driving. I'd say yes but know the rules on CCW and OC before traveling. I take a handgun everywhere I go and always put it in my room/tent with me at night; even if daytime driving/carrying is not an option. But do check the laws.

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    Don't make it up just read the Law.

    Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 790 WEAPONS AND FIREARMS 790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--


    (5)POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

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    Reading on Fl. carry in vehicle, note that regs keep referring to "other than handgun" which means does not apply to handguns.

    Could someone clarify why handguns are excluded in Fl law statures or that is how I read it
    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
    Thanks
    Noel

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    Wulirider wrote:
    Reading on Fl. carry in vehicle, note that regs keep referring to "other than handgun" which means does not apply to handguns.

    Could someone clarify why handguns are excluded in Fl law statures or that is how I read it
    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
    Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
    Thanks
    Noel
    Handgun (without CWFL)- must be Securely Encased OR not Readily Available for Immediate Use ()

    Long Gun - You can have it anywhere in any condition. I drive around with my AR in my lap.



    790.001

    (16)"Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

    (17)"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

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    Wulirider wrote:
    Reading on Fl. carry in vehicle, note that regs keep referring to "other than handgun" which means does not apply to handguns.

    Could someone clarify why handguns are excluded in Fl law statures or that is how I read it
    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
    Thanks
    Noel
    Read each sentence separately. Handguns must be "securely encased" as defined in Fla. Stat. § 790.001(17) and not concealed on the person, unless the person has a concealed weapon license. Long guns transported for a legal purpose need not be "securely encased."
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    Thanks for your insights to the reading of the statute.

    I travel with a 9mm in a case, and carry concealed when walking, no license, just a natural 2nd Amendment action, as travel all over America visiting.

    Often carry my shotgun pump too, in rear in a case.

    thanks again
    Noel

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    Wulirider wrote:
    Thanks for your insights to the reading of the statute.

    I travel with a 9mm in a case, and carry concealed when walking, no license, just a natural 2nd Amendment action, as travel all over America visiting.

    Often carry my shotgun pump too, in rear in a case.

    thanks again
    Noel
    Felony in Florida...Just an FYI.

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    brboyer wrote:
    Wulirider wrote:
    Thanks for your insights to the reading of the statute.

    I travel with a 9mm in a case, and carry concealed when walking, no license, just a natural 2nd Amendment action, as travel all over America visiting.

    Often carry my shotgun pump too, in rear in a case.

    thanks again
    Noel
    Felony in Florida...Just an FYI.
    As it would be an illegal act in 48 states + D.C.

    Why not OC where legal? That is what this forum is about.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I have thought about that, felony in Fl, and elsewhere.

    I chagrin to know others feel my personal responsibility to myself, family and friends, to defend and protect is considered a crime, when circumstances, situations do arise where self defense is necessary; but I, without my firearm, left in the car or at home,---because of a law---does not protect me in said same situation.

    I will continue to carry here and anywhere as a natural right to self defense, knowing I am a man of sound mind and body and self responsible.

    Maybe even Florida, will move toward recognition of the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment, not in 'making it a law' but recognizing the right of any individual, at any time, that "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    That is a natural right of self preservation. I really do not see any words in the phase quoted that abdicate any of my self responsible behavior to another who is not present when harm comes my way outside my home or office.

    As a side note, it seems only in government controlled places, government schools, airports or planes, courtrooms, where the private citizen is disarmed, does the criminal with impunity seem to get away with murder.

    No, defending myself at home, work or out in the world, in neither of the three instances mentioned just mentioned, do I surrender my right to self defense.

    You asked, I tried to explain: self responsible behavior does not decrease just because another person or group makes self responsible behavior illegal. Explain to me how a thug attacking you in the streets, attempting to rape your daughter in the alley, should get away with such behavior, when if tried in the house or your office, you would---or she would (my daughter) shoot him dead. I will do the same---and she would, in the alley, with the same reasoning as if the criminal tried to do so in my house or vehicle!

    Liberty has a price and making self defense a felony does not negate the natural right to defend yourself or family at home, work or the world.

    Sincerely
    N



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    I understand fully the 2nd Amendment and what it should mean to all people and I comprehend the need to defend one self whereever and whenever the need might arise. I'll not argue those points.

    What I would hate to see happen is that you could loose your RKBA permanently through circumstances not of your choosing. Were the STHF one night, you might claim the doctrine of lesser evils as your defense but I would not wish to bet my future on it. What good are you to family and friends while you are incarserated?

    Principles are better defended by an activist outside the walls and razor wire than from within them.

    Better to OC where you can, have a permit for times you cannot and join the struggle to restore fully our rights under the 2nd Amendment.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I posted a few questions in officer.com about fss 790.25. Got some interesting repsonces.

    here's the link to the thread.

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=120401


    enjoy Woody,

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    woodyga wrote:
    I posted a few questions in officer.com about fss 790.25. Got some interesting repsonces.

    here's the link to the thread.

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=120401


    enjoy Woody,
    Welcome to our world - hope you enjoy and stay a spell.

    Interesting link and conversation, though I have to admit very few of us here would take a LEO's response as gospel. Not knocking LEOs when I say that either. There are some well intentioned that are simply misinformed and there are a few bad apples.

    Overall, I think it depends on the departmental leadership, their attitudes and current training. Most LEOs are good, responsible and hard working. Still what Officer Leo tells you won't help you in court.

    Better to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. This forum, maps and links will start you in the right direction.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks Grapeshot

    I concur, I wont take their opinions as gospel. There were a few rouges in there that wanted to prone me out. I believe I opened a can of worms for them. Most FL LEO's were unaware of the statute. Now there going oh S%^t Im gonna have a bunch of cowboys fishing from my piers. Causing them a bunch of paperwork.
    I thought it was interesting though.

    I have a MO CCW. I have open carried a few times in my home town of Jackson. I have kids/grandkids that live in GA were open carry is legal with a GFL. So hence my interest in open carry in Fl, they live right at the state line between GA and FL.

    Woody,

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    woodyga wrote:
    Thanks Grapeshot

    I concur, I wont take their opinions as gospel. There were a few rouges in there that wanted to prone me out. I believe I opened a can of worms for them. Most FL LEO's were unaware of the statute. Now there going oh S%^t Im gonna have a bunch of cowboys fishing from my piers. Causing them a bunch of paperwork.
    I thought it was interesting though.

    I have a MO CCW. I have open carried a few times in my home town of Jackson. I have kids/grandkids that live in GA were open carry is legal with a GFL. So hence my interest in open carry in Fl, they live right at the state line between GA and FL.

    Woody,
    There are a few other threads on OCing fishing in Florida.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ishing+florida

    Use the forum search button up top for "OC fishing Florida."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quick question,

    Can I open carry in Ga with My MO CCW permit? Going to visit in Sept, "a new grandbaby.... WA HOO".
    Thanks Woody,

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    woodyga wrote:
    Quick question,

    Can I open carry in Ga with My MO CCW permit? Going to visit in Sept, "a new grandbaby.... WA HOO".
    Thanks Woody,
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    :P Hello everyone. I lived in Florida for many, many years and just recently moved to Wisconsin (Feb 07). I had a Federal Firearms License in Florida and had to keep up with just about all the firearm laws state wide and Federal. Anyway, to specifically answer the question(s) about carrying a handgun in your vehicle you CAN legally do so as stated by several members already. The handgun can be in the seat next to you as long as it is "securely encased". The law gives you several examples of what that means but the best is on the seat in a holster WITH A SNAP THAT IS SNAPPED. I attended college in Orlando, Florida and one of my instructors was the Assistant D.A. for Orange County. He brought a loaded revolver to class one night and explained the legalities of possessing and transporting the handgun. One thing you don't want to do is NEVER put it under your seat. That is not allowed and you SHOULDN'T put it in your console next to you. That is not advisable. One other thing that was mentioned in class was actually mounting a holster on the transmission hump or console and keeping the handgun there. Uh, don't do it. The reason the law specifically says "securely encased" and gives you those examples is for this reason: A person MUST make a minimum of TWO actions to get the handgun and use it. For this reason that person has to THINK of what he/she is doing and therefore made a conscious decision to use that firearm". So if you actually use the firearm and murder someone it wasn't an accident because you THOUGHT about it first by going through two actions: One, you unsnapped the holster or removed the lid, opened the glovebox, etc...and TWO you fired the weapon. This is how you can and will be charged with pre-meditated murder in the first degree (if it actually was murder). On October 1st, 2005 the Florida Castle Doctrine law went into effect. It is probably the best in the nation! I loved living in Florida with that law protecting me. Look it up. It basically says you have the legal right to defend yourself ANYWHERE you are that you have the legal right to be with up to and including lethal force against attackers against yourself or a third party and you CANNOT be charged with a crime OR sued in civil court. Now that is a great law!
    OK. One more thing I have to point out that many people do NOT know about Florida firearm laws: You actually CAN open carry in Florida under certain circumstances. Think about it. If you are hunting in Florida how do you do it? How about target shooting? How about in your home? Here is the exception statute:



    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...n%2025#0790.25

    Here is part of the exception for us normal people for open carry:

    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (i)A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;

    (h)A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (j)A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

    (k)A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;

    (l)A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

    (m)A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

    When I lived in Florida I attended gunshows all over the state. We would openly carry our handgun(s) in holsters and carry our long arms into and out of the gun show building(s) to and from our vehicles in the parking lots. This is legal in Florida and the police in Florida are VERY friendly (in my opinion) to gun owners. I never had any issues with the police and I had many interactions with them over the years professionally. So think about it, if you are traveling to or from hunting, fishing, target shooting, etc...IAW the above statute you CAN openly wear your handgun in your vehicle. I did it for over 8 years when I lived in Plant City, Florida to and from the shooting range in Lakeland. I had five neighbors who were all police officers and they all knew I was the "gun nut" of the neighborhood. Hope this helps and sorry for such a long post!

    P.S. 790.053 Open carrying of weapons is a second class misdemeanor in Florida except as stated in the exception statute above.

    :celebrate




    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    rcawdor57 wrote:
    :P Hello everyone. I lived in Florida for many, many years and just recently moved to Wisconsin (Feb 07). I had a Federal Firearms License in Florida and had to keep up with just about all the firearm laws state wide and Federal. Anyway, to specifically answer the question(s) about carrying a handgun in your vehicle you CAN legally do so as stated by several members already. The handgun can be in the seat next to you as long as it is "securely encased". The law gives you several examples of what that means but the best is on the seat in a holster WITH A SNAP THAT IS SNAPPED. I attended college in Orlando, Florida and one of my instructors was the Assistant D.A. for Orange County. He brought a loaded revolver to class one night and explained the legalities of possessing and transporting the handgun. One thing you don't want to do is NEVER put it under your seat. That is not allowed and you SHOULDN'T put it in your console next to you. That is not advisable. One other thing that was mentioned in class was actually mounting a holster on the transmission hump or console and keeping the handgun there. Uh, don't do it. The reason the law specifically says "securely encased" and gives you those examples is for this reason: A person MUST make a minimum of TWO actions to get the handgun and use it. For this reason that person has to THINK of what he/she is doing and therefore made a conscious decision to use that firearm". So if you actually use the firearm and murder someone it wasn't an accident because you THOUGHT about it first by going through two actions: One, you unsnapped the holster or removed the lid, opened the glovebox, etc...and TWO you fired the weapon. This is how you can and will be charged with pre-meditated murder in the first degree (if it actually was murder). On October 1st, 2005 the Florida Castle Doctrine law went into effect. It is probably the best in the nation! I loved living in Florida with that law protecting me. Look it up. It basically says you have the legal right to defend yourself ANYWHERE you are that you have the legal right to be with up to and including lethal force against attackers against yourself or a third party and you CANNOT be charged with a crime OR sued in civil court. Now that is a great law!
    OK. One more thing I have to point out that many people do NOT know about Florida firearm laws: You actually CAN open carry in Florida under certain circumstances. Think about it. If you are hunting in Florida how do you do it? How about target shooting? How about in your home? Here is the exception statute:



    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...n%2025#0790.25

    Here is part of the exception for us normal people for open carry:

    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (i)A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;

    (h)A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (j)A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

    (k)A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;

    (l)A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

    (m)A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

    When I lived in Florida I attended gunshows all over the state. We would openly carry our handgun(s) in holsters and carry our long arms into and out of the gun show building(s) to and from our vehicles in the parking lots. This is legal in Florida and the police in Florida are VERY friendly (in my opinion) to gun owners. I never had any issues with the police and I had many interactions with them over the years professionally. So think about it, if you are traveling to or from hunting, fishing, target shooting, etc...IAW the above statute you CAN openly wear your handgun in your vehicle. I did it for over 8 years when I lived in Plant City, Florida to and from the shooting range in Lakeland. I had five neighbors who were all police officers and they all knew I was the "gun nut" of the neighborhood. Hope this helps and sorry for such a long post!

    P.S. 790.053 Open carrying of weapons is a second class misdemeanor in Florida except as stated in the exception statute above.

    :celebrate



    imo this is not open carry,nor is it even close to the 2nd Amendment,

    if anything it's state controled carry.i feel sorry for gun oners in fl.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    My understanding of Florida law (excepting the cited conditions) is that concealed means concealed - You can even be cited for printing! Basically, Florida does not allow OC.

    Don't think that being in a snapped holster beside you on the seat is going to qualify as "securely encased." OTOH - under the seat in a bolted to the floor gun safe would.

    As to the Asst. DA bringing a loaded revolver to class for demonstration purposes, I'm out of there. His employment/title doesn't make him safe or smart.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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