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Thread: Eight shot in two Colorado church incidents. [The other Gun Free Zone]

  1. #1
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...22&sp=true


    DENVER, Colo. (Reuters) - At least four people were shot in the parking lot of a large Colorado evangelical church on Sunday in the second shooting in a day linked to a religious community in the state.

    Police said a gunman opened fire outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs after Sunday services and that three to five people had been taken to local hospitals. No fatalities were reported.

    Police said they had detained a suspect but gave no details about his condition or a possible motive.

    In an earlier incident, 70 miles away, two people were killed and two were wounded shortly after midnight when a gunman entered a training center for young missionaries in the Denver suburb of Arvada, police said.

    Police in the two cities said they were coordinating information but did not know whether the attacks were related.

    However Paul Filidis, a spokesman for the missionary group in Arvada, said the organization did rent space for an office from the New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

    The New Life Church, which has about 14,000 members, was founded by pastor Ted Haggard, who resigned in disgrace in 2006 after admitting to sexually immoral conduct.

    Police cordoned off the New Life Church and locked down several local buildings. Colorado Springs Police Lt. Fletcher Howard said police were not sure if a second gunman was at large. One eyewitness told CNN he saw a young man wearing combat boots and with an assault rifle and a handgun.

    Rob Brendle, associate pastor at the New Life Church, told Reuters by telephone: "It's been a dramatic day and we are participating with the police investigation right now but we are not at liberty to make a comment right now."

    In Arvada, two youth missionary staff members were shot and killed by a young man who came to the door of the Youth With a Mission dormitory asking for a place to stay, the group said in a statement.

    When he was told he could not be accommodated there, he pulled out a handgun and opened fire. Two other staffers, who were cleaning up after a Christmas party, were wounded before the gunman ran away.

    The Mission is an international and interdenominational organization that trains young people to work as missionaries.

    "Please pray for the families who are on their way to Denver for the critically injured young man undergoing surgery today for the staff and students who have been evacuated to another location for the apprehension of the gunman who fled the scene," Mission spokesman Filidis said in a statement

    Additional reporting by Steven Saint in Colorado Springs and Ed Stoddard in Dallas, writing by Jill Serjeant in Los Angeles, editing by Eric Walsh in Washington)

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    WOW.............

    I used to go to that church (New Life)when I was a kid. Man, have times changed.

    It's indeed scary how shootings like this occur in "Gun Free Zones". I wouldn't recommend going tochurch unarmed. I love the Lord, but I'll be damned if some schmuck tries to rob/kill me while I praise Jesus.


    Just another "good and sufficient reason" added to the list.


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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    "Gun Free Zones" : Not for the faint of heart.

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    Is carry in places of worship against the law in CO, or do those particular churches have a "no guns" rule? A co-worker and I were just discussing it and I can't find a statute prohibiting it.

    It is prohibited in VA "without good and sufficient reason", for which self defense may qualify. WY prohibits CC but not OC, and NC doesn't address it except for prohibiting carry in funeral processions.


    edited to make 'church' plural, grammar

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    jimwyant wrote:
    Is carry in places of worship against the law in CO, or does those particular churches have a "no guns" rule? A co-worker and I were just discussing it and I can't find a statute prohibiting it.

    It is prohibited in VA "without good and sufficient reason", for which self defense may qualify. WY prohibits CC but not OC, and NC doesn't address it except for prohibiting carry in funeral processions.


    edited to make 'church' plural
    Well, I know that it is perfectly legal to carry in churches here in KY (unless posted otherwise).

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    http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/...112100069/1001




    ARVADA, Colo. — Three persons were killed and six others were injured yesterday in separate attacks at two Colorado religious sites. A church security guard killed a suspect in one of the shootings.

    A suspect, identified only as a white man in his 20s wearing dark clothing, was killed shortly after he began firing at parishioners at about 1 p.m. in the parking lot of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. A church member, reportedly a teenage girl, was killed in the attack.

    Nearly 12 hours earlier, a gunman opened fire at Youth With a Mission in Arvada, an international missionary training center on the Faith Bible Chapel campus, killing two missionaries and wounding two others. In that incident, the shooter was described as a white man in his 20s wearing a black coat and black beanie-style cap.

    Police in Arvada and Colorado Springs said last night that they were working together to determine whether the two shootings were carried out by the same gunman. The mission training program has a small office at the church's World Prayer Center on the New Life campus.

    Arvada, a suburb of Denver, is about 70 miles away from Colorado Springs.

    Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter Jr. called in the Colorado Information Analysis Center, the Department of Public Safety, the Colorado State Patrol and the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to provide local authorities with assistance.

    "Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough, but when innocent people are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we must voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed commitment to keeping our communities safe," he said.

    Peter Warren, director of Youth With a Mission Denver, said the victims were cleaning up after a Christmas party at about 12:30 a.m. when the gunman arrived at the mission facility on the Faith Bible Chapel campus and asked whether he could stay the night.

    Tiffany Johnson, the facility"s hospitality director, told him the center was a dormitory, not a shelter, said Mr. Warren, who added that he received the account from students at the scene.

    "This is what I"ve got for you," Mr. Warren said the gunman replied before he began firing with an automatic handgun.

    Miss Johnson, 26, of Minnesota, and Philip Crouse, 24, of Alaska, were killed in the attack. Dan Griebenow, 24, of South Dakota, was hit in the neck and was in critical but stable condition. Charles Blanch, 22, was in fair condition after suffering a gunshot wound to the leg.

    "It"s a horrible event that has happened to innocent people," Arvada Police Chief Don Wick said at a press conference last night.

    He said Arvada police used a canine unit to follow tracks in the snow for several hours to search for the gunman. The search was called off when the footprints became "commingled" with others.

    Despite the similarities between the two incidents, Chief Wick called the investigation "active and ongoing."

    "Until we conclusively determine who"s responsible for this, we will continue to pursue all leads," he said.

    Hundreds of New Life parishioners attending the noon service were leaving the building and heading to their cars when gunfire erupted in the parking lot. The gunman, who also might have had a bomb or other incendiary device on him, ran into the church foyer.

    Police arrived within three minutes, but by then a church security guard killed the suspect.

    "When the officers arrived, they found the active shooter had been shot by a security squad member, a courageous security squad member who probably saved many lives," said Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers. "The suspect was subsequently found to be dead."

    A church member was killed in the attack. Four others were shot and taken to hospitals, although their names and information about their conditions were not released yesterday. Chief Myers said some of the wounded sustained "life-threatening injuries."

    The Rev. Brady Boyd of New Life Church said he called in additional security for yesterday"s services after learning of the Arvada shooting.

    "I"m proud of the way our team responded today," he said. "We had a plan in place ... and it worked well. Many, many lives were saved because of the quick action of some committed volunteers at our church."

    Mr. Boyd said he "watched the events unfold" from his second-floor office window after his secretary heard gunshots.

    "What I experienced watching from my window was surreal," he said.

    New Life, a 10,000-member mega-church and one of the state's largest, was founded by Ted Haggard, who resigned a year ago after admitting that he had paid for sex with a male prostitute. He also admitted to purchasing methamphetamine from the prostitute, though he said he never tried it. Mr. Haggard was replaced by Mr. Boyd in August.

    Police were searching the church building last night for explosives after finding "several suspicious devices," said Chief Myers.

    •This article is based in part on wire service reports.




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    http://www.newsdaily.com/TopNews/UPI...ings-4thld.xml

    now four dead.

    More than two thousand stories on Colorado Church Shootings at

    http://news.google.com/nwshp?tab=wn&...en&topic=h

    Strike up the band?? Will they danse macabre, or is the issue too conflicted for the PCPress, the lamestream media?

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    From the news report.
    Police arrived within three minutes, but by then a church security guard killed the suspect


    Which proves once again that a gun in the hand,beats a cop on the phone.
    Assault Weapon (N) Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians..

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    WCrawford wrote:
    Well, I know that it is perfectly legal to carry in churches here in KY (unless posted otherwise).
    Which immediately descends to the 'property owners' rights' argument ((not 'argumentative' - please differentiate)).

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

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    I agree SH... and the mall shooting in Omaha, it said the shooting there was over in 2 to 3 minutes. The police arrived SIX minutes after they recieved the first 911 call.

    Now take into consideration, that those six minutes were probably even longer. From my experience, most police departments post times when the officer radio's in that they are on the scene. This was a MALL.. I don't know how big this mall is but if it's like most malls, it probably fairly large.

    If the first officer on the scene radioed in and they arrived at the oppisite end of the mall from were the shooting was taking place...it could have taken several more minutes for the first officer to run the distance to were the shooting was actually happening.



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    I suspect, rather, that 'they' are becomming sensitized to the stereotypical 'six-minutes response time.' Try making a notification of required action phone call, the response will take a looong time.

    In my work we were required to regularly perform a federally required drill that included such as response time to an 'emergency' phone call.

    If the cops made it in 3 minutes then one was out in the parking lot.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

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    As sad as an event this was, I think it's huge that all of the reports I've been hearing on the radio indicate that credit is being given to the armed security guard whom, without her intervention, "countless others would have surely been killed."

    If only people could apply that logic to other shooting scenarios.

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    I propose we found the Second Amendment Armed-Guards Association and buy all the State dispensations of our gun-carry sin needed to be armed where we will.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

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    On the new's this morning here in Michigan they reported an armed church security guard killed the shooter.

    Also, here in Michigan if you have permission from the church you can carry @ the church.




    http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7474773

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    I saw the pastor being interviewed. He said the volunteer security guard went to the early service and helped out as a security person after she went to worship. She used her own personal weapon and had a license to carry. She was in plain clothes, not a uniform. Sounds like to me that she was a churchmember who did security for the church as an unpaid volunteer - basically a civilian!

    I hope the press picks up on this fact, that an ordinary church goer can be armed security.



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    The Omaha mall shooting thread went to nine pages and nearly 200 comments. Are we already seeing burn out, or the absence of one of our most prolix posters?

    I can and do avoid malls and shooter protection zones. I can't avoid Church so its status as a Gun Free Zone is much more material than commerce.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

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    XD Owner wrote:
    I saw the pastor being interviewed. He said the volunteer security guard went to the early service and helped out as a security person after she went to worship. She used her own personal weapon and had a license to carry. She was in plain clothes, not a uniform. Sounds like to me that she was a churchmember who did security for the church as an unpaid volunteer - basically a civilian!

    I hope the press picks up on this fact, that an ordinary church goer can be armed security.

    We should be so lucky for the media to pick up on it, but they won't.



    This in face of the statement from the mall rep who said something to the effect, that if the mall guards had been armed then the toll would have been 23.

    Here is a similar scenario and an ARMED civilian guard and only one dead at the church.



    Tarzan

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    jimwyant asks:

    "Is carry in places of worship against the law in CO?"

    No. It is a private property matter for the churches whether they prohibit firearms.

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    Michigunner wrote:
    On the new's this morning here in Michigan they reported an armed church security guard killed the shooter.

    Also, here in Michigan if you have permission from the church you can carry @ the church.




    http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7474773
    Here is an article on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/col...ngs/index.html

    Apparently the "Security Guard" was a female parishoner using her personal weapon. Kudos to her for stepping up when it counted.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I hate leaving my gun in the car when I go into church. This is more proof that carrying inchurch is a good idea, it saved lives in this circumstance.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewFlash.asp?Page=/ThisHour/Archive/NTH20071210t.html

    Security Guard 'Saved Over 100 Lives'

    (CNSNews.com) - Many people are expressing relief that a volunteer security guard used her own gun to stop a man on a shooting spree Sunday. "She probably saved over 100 lives," the Brady Boyd, the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said on Monday. The female guard, a church member dressed in plain clothes, killed the gunman after he opened fire at the mega-church. Boyd said she "rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway" as he entered the building. The shooting erupted around 1 p.m., at the end of a service, when 7,000 people were either inside the New Life Church or just leaving. "He was just walking and shooting," the Denver Post quoted one witness as saying. The gunman, still unidentified, shot at least eight people, killing two teenage sisters, the pastor said. The girls were 16 and 18 years old. Their father, also shot, is listed in father condition. The gunman is believed to be the same young man who shot and killed two people earlier the same day at a missionary training center in suburban Denver. In that case, the gunman opened fire, reportedly after he was refused permission to spend the night at the missionary center. The gunman was described as skinny, in his 20s, about 6 feet tall and dressed in black, police said. KUSA-TV reported that the gunman was wearing a "tactical helmet and body armor." The church's pastor said the New Life Church "prepared in advance" for a possible attack, after hearing about the shooting at the missionary training center.


  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.9news.com/news/top-articl...?storyid=82509

    "9Wants to Know has learned 24-year-old Matthew Murray was killed after opening fire at New Life Church on Sunday.

    Murray, who was home schooled, lived with his parents' home in unincorporated Arapahoe County at the same home investigators searched Sunday night. "

    "9Wants to Know has learned Murray lived with his family in the home for many years and his father, Dr. Ronald Murray, is a well-known doctor.

    Neighbors described Murray as a loner and as someone who was very quiet and didn't talk to neighbors.

    It is still unclear whether there is a connection between Murray and the shooting at an Arvada missionary training center. "


  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I know its idle speculation, but I wonder if this is somehow a copycat incident to the Omaha Mall Shooting.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I know its idyl speculation, but I wonder if this is somehow a copycat incident to the Omaha Mall Shooting.
    I would not be surprised. One outcast loner gets a lot of press and another wants some notoriety too.



    Tarzan

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    This is my new hero:



    (From Crimefilenews.com)

    New Life Evangelical Church, Colorado Springs, CO--42 year-old, Jeanne Assam is an angel and a genuine hero that may have saved as many as 100 lives. Assam volunteered to perform security duties during services when 24 year-old Matthew Murray began his murderous Sunday assault on worshipers.

    The plain clothed, security angel immediately sprang into action drawing her personal handgun, pursued and engaged the gunman killing him. Assam's heroic act ended any further injury or death.


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