imported post
Neplusultra wrote:
Freeflight wrote:
Never Ask permission, ALWAYS carry. don't ask Don't Tell... Especially in Gun free Zones...thats where you need it the most.
I agree with that. But let's take it one more step. Private property rights! I think a reconsideration needs be. A public mall where "anyone" can enter without security is much different than say my home where I invite people I know to a party. I can restrict what people bring into my home but I also know everyone there. A mall, even though it is private property is not "private", like my home. I actively regulate who comes into my house, they do not! (Did you notice the photos from the shopping mall shooting story, they "beefed up" security. Added more guards, all of whom are unarmed!!! HA!)
Because they do not actively regulate those who enter (security check points) they give up their rights to regulate my behaviour because they are not and cannot protect me. With all these shootings a reality, whose rights trump the others? My right to life or their right to control their property? Since I was not invited specifically and the mall is open to everyone, effectively including those who have guns with ill intent, then I say my right to life supercedes their rights of private property. Rights cannot contradict one another. One of the two has to give up their rights. Are they really saying I'm giving up my right to life when I enter their mall?????
Sounds like a SCOTUS case to me
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Private property HOME is different from Private Property/Public Access IMO.
All my friends know I am armed,yet I do "Ask" permission for entry into the home. Every time... I just don't assume. (All my Friends know it’s a package deal…Love me, Love my gun)
Entry into a "Private Property" that is open to the public is not a Home, I never ask, I never tell, (except here on Opencarry.org) They can put all the signs up they want I will still ignore them.
Take this scenario: there may be holes in it, keep in mind I'm writing as is occurs to me.
Enter in a Mall,Private property that exists for the sole purpose of drawing customers to spend money at shops that pay rent (its more like a public street than private property)
Security guards see you enter, they "Believe" you are Armed... (perhaps you did a security feel/adjustment of weapon, they can see a bulge) so they descend on you...
The things in () ARE NOT SAIDthey are there as commentary. All your statements must display both Friendliness confidence and calm
SG: Sir.... sir!!!! a moment with you if we can....
You: May I help you gentlemen? (What do you idiots wan't now!!!?)
SG: Yes, do you have a gun?
You: I have nothing illegal on my person. (2nd amendment says Keep and BEAR arms... not just keep at home... but to Bear them hence nothing "Illegal")
SG: well you won't mind if we check then???
You: Yes I mind,I do not consent to any searches.
SG: Then you will have to leave...
You: For what reason???
SG: We believe you are armed....
You: Well if you don’t want my business,I will leave then... (Everything can end here... just leave... But lets play the game some more....)
You: You Must be mistaken... (DONT say I'm not armed... Just that they are mistaken...)
SG: we are not mistaken,come with us.
you: Why?
SG: We are calling the police....
you: oh... (Don’t say OKAY but go with them…aint this fun!!?_)
SG (somewhere in the back of the mall) We are going to search you now...
you: ah well you can't. Searching me violates my rights, to search me you will have to single me out and that would be profiling/Prejudice/Wrong.. and that will be very bad for you and the management company that runs the mall.
SG... we will let the Cops Search you then...
you.. They will not be able to search me either. They will need articulatable probable cause that a CRIME has been or is about to be committed before they can search me.
SG, we see a bulge under your clothes.
you, that is a very PRIVATE and CLOSE PERSONAL MATTER (infer with body language that is very embarrassing... Alot can be done with inflection. They will believe it could be a colostomy bag or other gross something…)
SG we think its a gun...
you: I have told you it is a very PRIVATE and close PERSONAL MATTER and I will not discuss it nor let you see it. Are we done here???
(the same can be done with the POLICE....)
The police can't search you without Articulatable probable cause or if you give them permission… (JUST SAY NO).
the Private security company can't search you unless they search EVERYONE and being searched is a condition of entry PRIOR TO ENTRY.
This whole scenario is firmly in the grey area and based on the 4th and 5th
Anyway... feel free to join in the game if you have a Mind to... I don't purport to be the final say on any topic. I think it may be fun to explore all the takes on this kind of misdirection games.
FreeFlight