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Thread: Unincorporated territory and Loaded Open Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Maybe you should remove the magazine/ammunition from your weapon before driving in the boonies.

    12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory[/b].

    Even in the unincorporated territory there are certain restrictions on loaded open carry. The followingPenal Codes look to me like they make the inside of your car a “prohibited area” andany public road or highway a “prohibited area” as defined in: PC12031 (f) "As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon."

    PC 12034 (b). Unlawful to discharge a firearm from a motor vehicle.

    PC 374c. Unlawful to discharge a firearm from or upon any public road or highway.


    DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney, and my interpretation of the above noted cites are purely speculative statements based on my own limited understanding and should not be confused in any way with legal advice of any kind.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    I was well aware of 374c, but had not noticed 12034(b). Although it's basically moot, because 374c triggers 12031(f) on any road you're on in your vehicle anyway. I suppose if you were driving off-road in unincorporated territory, you'd better be aware of 12034(c) triggering 12031(f). I will update this minor detail on my carry flyerfor completeness sake.





  3. #3
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    MudCamper wrote:
    I was well aware of 374c, but had not noticed 12034(b). Although it's basically moot, because 374c triggers 12031(f) on any road you're on in your vehicle anyway. I suppose if you were driving off-road in unincorporated territory, you'd better be aware of 12034(c) triggering 12031(f). I will update this minor detail on my carry flyerfor completeness sake.
    Or as is my case, my neighborhood is made up of "Private" roads. These are not maintained by the county or state, and wouldn't trigger a 374c violation, it would be a violation of 12034(c). This is because even though the roads are technically owned by the residents who live by them, they are public easements, so aren't treated like private property. Wouldn't want to get arrested for driving down my own street.

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory[/b].
    We are defining "prohibited area".A public place or public streetis not in your car! Your car is also not an"area" of unincorporated territory. Being in your car doesn't activate 12031.If you happen to be in your car, on a horse, or riding a bikeon a public street or on a public place in an unincorporateddischarge prohibited place (like a street courtesy of 374c)it does. IMO.
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    We've debated this to some extent in another thread.

    While I don't think the law restricts loaded carry in vehicles, I don't want to be the test case.
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  6. #6
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory[/b].
    We are defining "prohibited area".A public place or public streetis not in your car! Your car is also not an"area" of unincorporated territory. Being in your car doesn't activate 12031.If you happen to be in your car, on a horse, or riding a bikeon a public street or on a public place in an unincorporateddischarge prohibited place (like a street courtesy of 374c)it does. IMO.
    The exact wording of the PC in defining a "prohibited area" is any "place" where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.
    I believe that any LEO would reasonable define you car as a "place" i.e. location,

    PC12031 (f) "As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon."

    Q: "Where did you find the loadedfirearm?" i.e. "At what exact place or location did you find the loaded firearm?"

    A: "In the defendent's vehicle."

    Not trying to start a debate on the minutia of the law, just bringing something to everyones attentionthat may or may not be used by an anti-OC LEO to bust someone.

    Forewarned is forearmed.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Well, like I already said, it's moot most of the time, since 99% of the time that most people are in their vehicle they are also on a public road. Even a dirt road in the NF is a public road.

    12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm[/b] when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city[/b] or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.[/b]

    12031(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

    374c. Every person who shoots any firearm from or upon a public road or highway is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    12034(b) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly permits any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in state prison for 16 months or two or three years.

    Seems pretty clear to me. Although if you want to get really insane, look how it says "any other person".Doesn't look like that includesthe driver.



  8. #8
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    What is a car? In basic terms, it is a noun (person, place, or thing). I hope we can all agree a car is a thing. While all things must be in a location, that does not make those things also become places.

    Consider this: I'm sitting in my vehicle - in my garage - with the garage door closed. Is this location, which is part of my home, a 'prohibited place' due to me being in my car? If so, this would create a conflict within the law. Therefore, we can infer that 12034(b) is intended to prohibit a way of shooting, not a location.

    While I am certain that this is the proper interpretation of the law, we know the judges and juries in this state are prone to misinterpret this easily. Until we get these stupid laws repealed, I would not recommend loaded carry in your vehicle... even if you're parked in your garage with the door shut.
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