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Thread: First time handgun

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    As the title states I'm looking to get my first handgun and begin exercising my rights . I have grown up around guns and I've fired glocks, beretta's and sigs several times before so I am not a complete newbie.

    I've done some reading and I would like to settle on a .40 caliber gun if possible. I originally wanted a compact model (For concealed reasons) but the dealer I talked to convinced me that at the .40 level he would suggest I bump up to a "mid-sized" gun like the p2000 and XD if I want a decent "universal" gun. After looking at a few different types I really like the P2000 from H&K.

    I kind of want a DA/SA handgun because I like the idea of the first round being slightly tougher to pull then the rest (I'm a safety nut and want to lessen the chances of it going off in the holster).

    After reading more about H&K I really like the reviews of P30 but don't like how its 9MM only.

    I guess my questions are this:

    Is the P2000 a good weapon for concealed carry? Would it really matter about going with a .40 vs a 9MM for personal protection?

    Price really isn't a issue (I'm comfortable in the sub $900 range for this first purchase) as I do appreciate quality guns. I want something I can one day give to my son as a hand me down. My current gun, a browning gold hunter, has been with me for almost 12 years (I got one of the first production models)!

    I'd like to get the gun soon (ie in the next month or so) so I can have it with me for my training class needed for my permit. Thankfully with OC laws in Virginia I can still have it around while I wait :-)

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    I can't say enough good about the XD's -- I've shot several and wound up selling my S&W to purchase and XD9 Service model. While I can't make judgement on the P2000, I do know that some of the Compact XD's do have magazines with 'Grip Extenders' so you can make it pretty much close to a full sized model, so that might be the best of both worlds for you there.

    As for caliber, I think a single, well-placed hit with either will stop someone in their tracks... I could see a bit of concern about a .22, but .380 and up should suffice -- as long as you can shoot the weapon well enough to be accurate.

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    Wynder wrote:
    As for caliber, I think a single, well-placed hit with either will stop someone in their tracks... I could see a bit of concern about a .22, but .380 and up should suffice -- as long as you can shoot the weapon well enough to be accurate.
    That's a big "if" forsome people. Well, I guess there is no "if" in your post, but you get the idea! You are absolutely correct; a big gun isn't do much good if you can't hit anything with it.

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    Thanks guys for the replies. After some more browsing I am leaning more and more to the P30. My only concern is not having the ability to shoot one before I buy. I guess would there be a reason not to get this gun (Or the p2000 for that matter)?

    I'll take a closer look at the XD ... my step father was really raving about them and he's a glock guy.

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    I carry the .45 XD Compact in 4'' daily. It conceals well, and the grip extender on the 13 rd mag makes it into a full sized service model great for OC. It's also SA, and you said you want a DA/SA so it may not be the best option. I still cannot say enough good things about it either. Great move by Springfield for picking these things up from the Croats.

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    GoodOmens wrote:
    Thanks guys for the replies. After some more browsing I am leaning more and more to the P30. My only concern is not having the ability to shoot one before I buy. I guess would there be a reason not to get this gun (Or the p2000 for that matter)?

    I'll take a closer look at the XD ... my step father was really raving about them and he's a glock guy.
    I did not have the opportunity to fire it, but i was able to handle it and really like it! along with the sig p250!!

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    Yea there is a gun show in my area this weekend I think I am going to do some extensive browsing.

    Any suggestions? I didn't like the Sig229 I held (too heavy) and I want to avoid glocks if possible (Everyone has one and I don't like the low profile sights)

    Thanks again guys for the replies.

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    sig p250 very very smooth double action only trigger pull

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    Ehh I bought a P30 .... I'll let you guys know how it is when it arrives. Should have a chance to shoot it next week.

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    my step father was really raving about them and he's a glock guy
    It's been known to happen.

    I haven't fired a P30 but from multiple fondlings it kicks ass.

    The sig p250 blows.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    "Safety Nut"? Can't hardly beat a Smith & Wesson revolver when it comes to safety, simplicity & effectiveness. Load it with 125 gr. hollowpoints. I pack a 2 1/2" Model 66 most of the time.

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    I think the 40S&W is a good choice.can be bought close to the price of or less than 9 mil.rounds. If you have any shooting ranges around where you live talk to the manager or range officer and ask which weapons jam the most and you will not buy a HK for $900.When you can buy a sig or a 1911 style for $500 to $600.Better yet some ranges will let you watch and not be shooting and see for yourself.I do not like glock's have seen to many people get shot with them because of poor training.or shoot someone near them. search on internet the subject of cocked and locked and read all info found and practice a lot with your new weapon.

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    The .40S&W should be a fine choice, although I don't believe you'll really lose or gain much of anything by going to a 9mm or .45ACP either. Mostly what changes is magazine capacity and cost of ammo. All of them are similar in penetration and expansion with today's quality rounds. The .45ACP will tend to edge the others out slightly, but it's a very small difference.

    My point being, if you like the way a 9mm shoots, or you like a gun that's only offered in 9mm, don't think for one second that you're having to settle for a "weaker" gun. It's just as "powerful" (There isn't really very much power in any of them) as the other two super common handgun calibers. The .380 can also be just fine with the right ammunition.

    I'd say to stick with 9mm or .40S&W because those calibers tend to be cheaper to shoot. But know that the difference between a 9mm and a .40S&W is tiny, and other factors should probably be more important to you. Lots of folks in the stores don't know what they're talking about btw, although I'm not saying the people you spoke with don't.


    I do not like glock's have seen to many people get shot with them because of poor training.or shoot someone near them.
    Also take statements like this with a grain of salt. I seriosuly doubt Glock is the only gun that lacks a manual safety (As in I'm certain), and that's probably the only reason you're being told that "too many people get shot with them." The real key in that statement was "poor training." That leads me to believe it probably didn't matter what gun they had.

    You can shoot yourself with anything, so don't let the fact that you didn't buy one certain make of handgun get you all excited about it being impossible to shoot yourself. Any good handgun will fire when you pull the trigger, so keep that finger off of it and you should be fine. Thousands and thousands of people, including Police officers and military personnel in various countries, carry Glocks and other similar handguns with no issues. If it were so dangerous it would not be standard issue for that many people.

    Again, my point is, if you like a Glock, don't let this deter you from it. Make the decision based on the features you want in the handgun. Certainly listen to everything people have to say. Just consider that it's kind of odd when someone simply singles out a certain brand as "bad" rather than something specific about the gun, such as the lack of a manual safety. That's not just a Glock thing.

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    I would def. suggest a .40 S&W MP ...

    I own one and i love every bit of it...!!!!

    PS :

    You do get a slight kick out of it...

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    I just bought an XD-45 the other week after much deliberation on which would be the first handgun that I'd purchase (I've owned a old S&W that used to be carried by a cop for years and used others owned by family). Originally, I had floated between the Glock and the 1911, leaning toward the 1911 because I didn't like the feel of polymer. I also considered the Sig-Sauer P-220, but in the end the expense for the P-220 and the low mag capacity eliminated that idea. Low mag capacity eliminated the 1911. The "feel" of the Glock eliminated that one as a contender. I was lost and looking at having to settle for the low capacity of the 1911. I looked at other options, but none appealed to me.

    I came across an article for the XD-45 while browsing the internet. I looked for more reviews and after more than a dozen decided that I should at least hold one and take a look at it. I called up my local shop and drove over to see it. When I first held it, I fell in love. The feel was nothing like the Glock. It felt solid and formidable. I confirmed that it had ambidextrous magazine release, a plus for this ambi-shooter. The dealer showed me how to disassemble it for cleaning -- which turns out to be EXTREMELY SIMPLE. I bought myself an XD-45 (4") on that very day, on the spot.

    The first time I fired it, I had myself a nice little group of ten shots no bigger than 12" at about 20 yards. The shots were all about 12" low from the target, but I attribute that almost certainly to trigger pull rather than anything wrong with the firearm. I did have one feed problem on the 23rd shot, which I am still looking into. I suspect that it was a problem with the magazine. Anyway, I haven't had any problems with it since. I made corrections and now I'm putting all of shots right on target, with some errant shots -- again, trigger pull.

    All in all, my experience with the XD-45 has been excellent.

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    The three most important criteria of a defensive handgun are, in order of importance;

    1. Reliability.
    2. Practical accuracy.
    3. Power.

    Reliability. The gun must go bang when you pull the trigger.. every time, without fail. If it does not do this, the next two criteria are moot points.

    Practical accuracy. The ability of the gun and shooter to deliver a round to target. All guns have inherent accuracy. Practical accuracy takes inherent accuracy and marries it with the ability of a shooter to effectively hit a target. Guns which are "natural pointers", those which do not require a bunch of adjustments with your hand in order to find a comfortable position, are better suited to practical accuracy. If you cannot hit your target when the chips are down, the last criteria means nothing.

    Power. The caliber chosen should have sufficient power to disrupt and cease an assailant's actions in as short a time as possible. There is much discussion and argument regarding calibers and power, but the fact remains that power is a factor when selecting a defensive handgun and ammunition. A police sheriff, who also gave lectures to new CCW applicants, once said that you should carry the most powerful caliber with which you can effectively and consistently deliver rounds to target and which meets your carry and comfort levels.



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    GoodOmens wrote:
    As the title states I'm looking to get my first handgun and begin exercising my rights . I have grown up around guns and I've fired glocks, beretta's and sigs several times before so I am not a complete newbie.

    I've done some reading and I would like to settle on a .40 caliber gun if possible. I originally wanted a compact model (For concealed reasons) but the dealer I talked to convinced me that at the .40 level he would suggest I bump up to a "mid-sized" gun like the p2000 and XD if I want a decent "universal" gun. After looking at a few different types I really like the P2000 from H&K.

    I kind of want a DA/SA handgun because I like the idea of the first round being slightly tougher to pull then the rest (I'm a safety nut and want to lessen the chances of it going off in the holster).

    After reading more about H&K I really like the reviews of P30 but don't like how its 9MM only.

    I guess my questions are this:

    Is the P2000 a good weapon for concealed carry? Would it really matter about going with a .40 vs a 9MM for personal protection?

    Price really isn't a issue (I'm comfortable in the sub $900 range for this first purchase) as I do appreciate quality guns. I want something I can one day give to my son as a hand me down. My current gun, a browning gold hunter, has been with me for almost 12 years (I got one of the first production models)!

    I'd like to get the gun soon (ie in the next month or so) so I can have it with me for my training class needed for my permit. Thankfully with OC laws in Virginia I can still have it around while I wait :-)
    9mm is sufficiant for self defense. Remember that your intended target is the bad guy's heart, which is relative to the size of his fist. the difference between 9mm and .40 though a person's heart doesn't matter.

    Shot placement

    Shot placement

    Shot placement

    Shot placement...

    9mm generally carry more ammo than .40 anyway.

  18. #18
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    Well I like the .40 it is a good round. I am reading an article on rounds now, very long (56 pages) and it seems .40, and .45 are the best behind .357Mag.
    Well I own a XD .40 and a 1911 .45 Both are very good guns, I have never had a jam on either of them. Both have fired 100% every time I have taken it to the range. Both feels good in my hands and both were under $500.00 Oh and both are Springfield..

    Now to be honest, even with both of the pistols being so nice and accurate, and easy to shoot, I will live and (I hope not, but in case I do) I will die by my 1911. I mean that is the one pistol that, if I am carrying, it is the one I have on me. It is staged closest to me in my house when I am in relax mode, (other then my pocket pistol .357mag). Which is always with me 100%.

    BUT I am going to order a light for my XD, and that will be in my night stand when I sleep why, because If I have to jump out of bed at 300am and not thinking clearly I can just pull the trigger on my XD and not worry about a safety. I could stage my 1911 with the safety off locked and cocked, but I don't cause with such a short trigger pull on the 1911 I rather keep the safety on. anyway if you are use to keeping a pistol one way for so long I don’t think it is good idea to change the way it is stored, ( one could forget what's condition it is in.
    anyway The rails is a added pulse with the XD. However there are some 1911 that come with rails now. And there are 1911 with double stack 14 rounds. Para- Ordnance My 1911 hold 9+1 But when you train you wont need the other 6 or 7 rounds after you double or triple tap. But extra rounds are always good to have.

    For concealment, I don't carry my XD anymore, because the butt prints, unlike my 1911, it is so sleek and thin, I have no problems printing with it at all. Let me add this, I just order a Blackhawk for my XD, because I will OC that one form time to time, but I give up on CC for the XD. Haha. I am looking at getting another gun now. I was looking at the HK45 but after giving things serious thought, and I am going to go with another 1911. Oh I am a safety nut also. That is why I got the XD and I stay away from the GLOCK. I would not take a Glock is someone offered me one with $1000.00. With the XD it has the same grip safety as a 1911, and when I holster my XD I push on it by the slide and the butt, no way for it to engage the trigger if snagged. ( they now come with manual thumb safeties). They are good guns and I love my XD and I will carry it again, and use it for home defense (night time) when I get the light, but as for me the 1911 is the best design to date. I would like you to test some 1911s, and I think you will like it,

    Comparing the 1911 to the XD.
    Rails for accessories, XD, some 1911
    HI cap Mag. XD,1911 (Para Ordnance)
    Polymer frames, XD, 1911 (Wilson Combat)
    Accuracy XD,1911
    Manual thumb Safety, New XD, 1911
    Sleek, 1911
    most Color options, 1911
    Styling, 1911
    Quick trigger/adjustable with a simple tool, 1911
    Better concealment, 1911 At least for me without a large shirt. I can ware any shirt with my 1911. limited shirts with the XD
    SA/DA, 1911 (Para Ordnance)
    No dead space or play in triger, 1911

    1911 WINS

    I love the 1911s. Everyone that own guns should own one. Really…

  19. #19
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    You can read all the articles in the world, but the facts are simple: there just isn't a significant difference in 9mm and .40S&W with good ammo. The penetration and expansion are both quite similar. Penetration may be a bit higher with the .40S&W, simply because it will fire heavier rounds, but it's nothing major. Expansion on the otherhand is so close it's essentially identical. Neither of them are particularly powerful really.

    Don't get too caught up on "this caliber is better than that caliber is better than that caliber." Get good ammo within your caliber; this means taking a look at actual tests involving ballistic gelatin with and without various barriers. As long as you've got good ammo, the 9mm is just fine, as is the .40S&W, as is the .45ACP. The .357mag is certainly a step up in power from the other three, but it's also a step up in recoil and often a significant step down in capacity. Generally, if you're considering a .357 you usually aren't looking at the others because you're looking at revolvers, and vice versa. I do plan on owning a .357 myself, so I'm not saying it's bad in any way, and I do agree that in terms of power it's a step up from the other three.

    The key is to take a look at the actual performance of many different rounds in each caliber in ballistic gelatin. I think that once you look at the real evidence, rather than taking some magazine article's word for it, you might be surprised by what you find regarding the 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP.

  20. #20
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    40 S&W's are for people who are ashamed to be seen carrying a 9mm,But don't have what it takes to carry a .45...Col.Jeff Cooper”


    I kid, I kid!


  21. #21
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    and we are leaving out .357 sig because..........?

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    Mostly because it's a cross bred shyte rocket.

    I like it, sort of a slightly more super .38 Super.

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    Two words:

    Double Tap!

  24. #24
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    Two famous Rap "artist,"Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls were shot and killed on the Las Vegas strip with 9mm pistols.

    9mm is just fine.

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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    Two famous Rap "artist,"Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls were shot and killed on the Las Vegas strip with 9mm pistols.

    9mm is just fine.
    Tupac Shakur Murder
    A dozen or more shots, four of them hitting Shakur, one lucky richocet into his lung, which killed him. At that rate, a .22 would do just fine, as well.


    Biggie Smalls Murder
    A dozen or more shots, four of them hitting Mr. Wallace (Smalls) in the chest -- of course, how could you miss?!. He still did not die immediately.


    I am not saying that the 9mm isn't a good round, but using these two cases to prove the effectiveness of the 9mm round is probably not a good idea to anyone armed with Google.




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