Wheelgunner
Regular Member
imported post
This Sunday sounds good. Maybe a lunch meet. I don't know oly, so where do you recommend?
This Sunday sounds good. Maybe a lunch meet. I don't know oly, so where do you recommend?
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Stopped, AGAIN in Oly, this time had a gun pulled on me...
- Thread starter sv_libertarian
- Start date
Trigger Dr
Regular Member
imported post
45-1911
Preston,
Did you see the table with the Marlin Rifle collection? The jolly fat guy setting there is my attorney friend referred to SV Lib.
Is he gun friendly
Jim
45-1911
Preston,
Did you see the table with the Marlin Rifle collection? The jolly fat guy setting there is my attorney friend referred to SV Lib.
Is he gun friendly
Jim
thebastidge
Regular Member
imported post
I think I would have told them that I would not cover up. No offense, and you have to do what you think is right (and fits your circumstances), but I believe they were bluffing, and if they actually did take it, it would be illegal siezure. Not just a crime under Washington law, WA consitution, but also Federal Constitution. Since they apparently drew a weapon, and you were undoubtedly detained, it would seem to qualify as an arrest also, quite possibly a false arrest.
But anyway, the seizure of your property, that would definitely get a case going. Right now, it's still he-said he-said bullshit.
I think I will most definitely be getting one of these before I open carry at home:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=158384
I think I would have told them that I would not cover up. No offense, and you have to do what you think is right (and fits your circumstances), but I believe they were bluffing, and if they actually did take it, it would be illegal siezure. Not just a crime under Washington law, WA consitution, but also Federal Constitution. Since they apparently drew a weapon, and you were undoubtedly detained, it would seem to qualify as an arrest also, quite possibly a false arrest.
But anyway, the seizure of your property, that would definitely get a case going. Right now, it's still he-said he-said bullshit.
I think I will most definitely be getting one of these before I open carry at home:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=158384
cato
Newbie
imported post
Past time for formal complaints for all your stops. Make the brass monkeys do some work. When they get tired of some real work they'll make sure the rank and file leave you alone or suffer the consequences (initially with letters in their files then days off if it continues). And get a tape recorder or use your cell phone in some creative way, etc... This all makes me want tosling a shot gun and get some coffee up in Washington. :cuss:
Past time for formal complaints for all your stops. Make the brass monkeys do some work. When they get tired of some real work they'll make sure the rank and file leave you alone or suffer the consequences (initially with letters in their files then days off if it continues). And get a tape recorder or use your cell phone in some creative way, etc... This all makes me want tosling a shot gun and get some coffee up in Washington. :cuss:
Attachments
sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
Wow. Thanks again guys, advice and suggestions always welcome.
I am still at this moment waiting to hear back from Lt. Wilson. I had to go up to Lynnwood last night, and will be leaving Seattle back for Oly shortly. When I get downtown, I plan to pay the OPD another visit if I have not heard back from them.
An audio recorder is definately on my purchase list now, and possibly a camcorder.
I refused to cover up, and my other option was to have my weapon taken from me. I decided to take a route that would get it over with quickest, given O'Neil's attitude and possibly instabilities I chose a more peaceful ending.
I agree, vendetta is a possibility. Why the rank and file OPD are not happy with OC is beyond me, but they are going to have to learn to live with it.
I am going to ask for a meeting with Lt. Wilson, either the Chief or watch Commander, the Mayor or City Manager, and someone from the City Attorney's Office. I emailed Trigger Doc's lawyer friend, and inquired as to consultation rates, and the possibility of getting a letter written.
I don't think Lt. Wilson was paying me lip service yesterday. We really didn't address the weapon being drawn, as that has to wait fora report to be filed. That I will accept as long as is dealt with quickly. He did tell me right off the bat that having my ass chewed (my words) for OC was improper behavior. I believe I pulled him out of something else, as the front desk initially told me that neither Lt. Wilson, the Chief, or Commander was available, and I would have to wait half an hour for a Sgt. When I told the front desk I had a weapon drawn on me, Lt. Wilson came out a couple of minutes later. He checked the call logs and was able to verify at least on call about me walking across the 4th Ave bridge OCing.
I will be requesting call logs, 911 call(s), etc, etc, etc...
I am really tempted to talk to a reporter, but want to wait a bit and see what happens.
This crap has got to end. O'Neil was very hostile and very unprofessional. I am going to start making noise as soon as I get downtown.
Steve
Wow. Thanks again guys, advice and suggestions always welcome.
I am still at this moment waiting to hear back from Lt. Wilson. I had to go up to Lynnwood last night, and will be leaving Seattle back for Oly shortly. When I get downtown, I plan to pay the OPD another visit if I have not heard back from them.
An audio recorder is definately on my purchase list now, and possibly a camcorder.
I refused to cover up, and my other option was to have my weapon taken from me. I decided to take a route that would get it over with quickest, given O'Neil's attitude and possibly instabilities I chose a more peaceful ending.
I agree, vendetta is a possibility. Why the rank and file OPD are not happy with OC is beyond me, but they are going to have to learn to live with it.
I am going to ask for a meeting with Lt. Wilson, either the Chief or watch Commander, the Mayor or City Manager, and someone from the City Attorney's Office. I emailed Trigger Doc's lawyer friend, and inquired as to consultation rates, and the possibility of getting a letter written.
I don't think Lt. Wilson was paying me lip service yesterday. We really didn't address the weapon being drawn, as that has to wait fora report to be filed. That I will accept as long as is dealt with quickly. He did tell me right off the bat that having my ass chewed (my words) for OC was improper behavior. I believe I pulled him out of something else, as the front desk initially told me that neither Lt. Wilson, the Chief, or Commander was available, and I would have to wait half an hour for a Sgt. When I told the front desk I had a weapon drawn on me, Lt. Wilson came out a couple of minutes later. He checked the call logs and was able to verify at least on call about me walking across the 4th Ave bridge OCing.
I will be requesting call logs, 911 call(s), etc, etc, etc...
I am really tempted to talk to a reporter, but want to wait a bit and see what happens.
This crap has got to end. O'Neil was very hostile and very unprofessional. I am going to start making noise as soon as I get downtown.
Steve
Wynder
State Researcher
imported post
Strong police presence, hostile attitude and (supposed) gun drawn on you. You, my friend, were technically under arrest. Had they confiscated your gun without your consent, you would of had a fairly strong civil rights suit against them -- I know that not many people want to be a test case, but this ticks me off all the way to the east coast.
You probably still do have Fourteenth Amendment suit... If you're fiscally able, I'd probably look into getting an attorney.
Strong police presence, hostile attitude and (supposed) gun drawn on you. You, my friend, were technically under arrest. Had they confiscated your gun without your consent, you would of had a fairly strong civil rights suit against them -- I know that not many people want to be a test case, but this ticks me off all the way to the east coast.
You probably still do have Fourteenth Amendment suit... If you're fiscally able, I'd probably look into getting an attorney.
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
imported post
sv_libertarian wrote:
Before you talk to a reporter, maybe talk to:
Dave Workman
Lonnie
Someone at CCRKBA in Bellevue.
Someone from the NRA.
Someone from GOA.
Someone from JPFO.
A pro-2A attorney in WA.
An Anti-cop attorney in WA (there are quite a few, look for who handledWTO cases in Seattle).
It might be good to have several people talk to the media about this issue/incident.
Then think about a press confrence (maybe with yourself and people from the above list). Actually, what you'd normallydo is write a press release and have it sent out nationallyby a professional firm (cost about $200).
Then members from this forum can email specific local reporters expressing an interest in the story and point the reporters to the press release.
When writing thepress release, think about using 'google keywords' i.e. Wilson's name, the mayors name, anti-gun, weapons, school shootings, shopping mall, church. That will 1) spark interest and 2) make it hit at the top of the search engine results and 3) put some pressure on Wilson and mayor -- since that press release will show up ANYTIME someone searches for their name on the internet.
sv_libertarian wrote:
Before you talk to a reporter, maybe talk to:
Dave Workman
Lonnie
Someone at CCRKBA in Bellevue.
Someone from the NRA.
Someone from GOA.
Someone from JPFO.
A pro-2A attorney in WA.
An Anti-cop attorney in WA (there are quite a few, look for who handledWTO cases in Seattle).
It might be good to have several people talk to the media about this issue/incident.
Then think about a press confrence (maybe with yourself and people from the above list). Actually, what you'd normallydo is write a press release and have it sent out nationallyby a professional firm (cost about $200).
Then members from this forum can email specific local reporters expressing an interest in the story and point the reporters to the press release.
When writing thepress release, think about using 'google keywords' i.e. Wilson's name, the mayors name, anti-gun, weapons, school shootings, shopping mall, church. That will 1) spark interest and 2) make it hit at the top of the search engine results and 3) put some pressure on Wilson and mayor -- since that press release will show up ANYTIME someone searches for their name on the internet.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
I've only had time to skim thethread. I'll chip in some random thoughts. Use or ignore as appropriate.
1) I agree with Mike. Unlawful Terry Stop. 4th Amendment violation. Essentially an unlawful weapon seizure. What's the word? "contructively" seized? Even though youconsented to it being placed in your backpack, consent under duress (threat of seizure) and at gun point is hardly consent.
2) Great analysis onLt. Wilson's letter, guys.
3)I think Lt. Wilson is part of the problem. As I recall, in your first or previous encounter with OPD, Lt. Wilson seemed a nice guy and on-board, but then was disappointing in an e-mail. Ditto this time.
4) Time to take the gloves off. They've proventheir attitude in multiple ways. Hit them (figuratively) as hard as you can.
I've only had time to skim thethread. I'll chip in some random thoughts. Use or ignore as appropriate.
1) I agree with Mike. Unlawful Terry Stop. 4th Amendment violation. Essentially an unlawful weapon seizure. What's the word? "contructively" seized? Even though youconsented to it being placed in your backpack, consent under duress (threat of seizure) and at gun point is hardly consent.
2) Great analysis onLt. Wilson's letter, guys.
3)I think Lt. Wilson is part of the problem. As I recall, in your first or previous encounter with OPD, Lt. Wilson seemed a nice guy and on-board, but then was disappointing in an e-mail. Ditto this time.
4) Time to take the gloves off. They've proventheir attitude in multiple ways. Hit them (figuratively) as hard as you can.
sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
I emailed Trigger Doc's friend, am waiting on a reply. I have also requested a meeting with Lt. Wilson, Chief Michel, or the Commander, either the city manager or mayor, and someone from the city attorney's office.
I may talk to a reporter, I am going to mull that over tonight. Will figure it out by the time I go to work.
I emailed Trigger Doc's friend, am waiting on a reply. I have also requested a meeting with Lt. Wilson, Chief Michel, or the Commander, either the city manager or mayor, and someone from the city attorney's office.
I may talk to a reporter, I am going to mull that over tonight. Will figure it out by the time I go to work.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Lt. Wilson,
Since you read this thread, I know you will come across this sooner or later.
There is absolutely no reason your 911 call-takers can't discuss with a 911-caller what is going on and explain to them that what they see occurring is both legal, Constitutionally protected, and not reflective of criminal intent.If you would like, I can produce for you a 911 call recording where a dispatcher quietly informed a caller that citizens openly carrying were legal. In fact, here it is: http://tinyurl.com/2ywzox
There is no law, to myknowledge,requiring or obligating you or any LEO to investigate such a call. If you do, you are mixing your community caretaking function with criminal investigation. Certainly, performing a Terry Stop and weapon seizure mixes it. There is absolutely no reason your officers can't observe from a distance and attempt to find articulable facts giving rise to a reasonable suspicion.
Separately, I do not buy your cooperative attitude. I think you are working in conjunction with the Chief and the City Attorney at damage control. Given the nature of the incident, I'd be surprised if you weren't.
I find your response to Mr. Coffman to be incredibly condescending; but, thank you forrevealing your attitude.
Lt. Wilson,
Since you read this thread, I know you will come across this sooner or later.
There is absolutely no reason your 911 call-takers can't discuss with a 911-caller what is going on and explain to them that what they see occurring is both legal, Constitutionally protected, and not reflective of criminal intent.If you would like, I can produce for you a 911 call recording where a dispatcher quietly informed a caller that citizens openly carrying were legal. In fact, here it is: http://tinyurl.com/2ywzox
There is no law, to myknowledge,requiring or obligating you or any LEO to investigate such a call. If you do, you are mixing your community caretaking function with criminal investigation. Certainly, performing a Terry Stop and weapon seizure mixes it. There is absolutely no reason your officers can't observe from a distance and attempt to find articulable facts giving rise to a reasonable suspicion.
Separately, I do not buy your cooperative attitude. I think you are working in conjunction with the Chief and the City Attorney at damage control. Given the nature of the incident, I'd be surprised if you weren't.
I find your response to Mr. Coffman to be incredibly condescending; but, thank you forrevealing your attitude.
gregma
Regular Member
imported post
sv_libertarian wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
Maybe it's time to really get the NWCDL up and running full bore. Setup a paypal account to accept donations for a legal defense fund. Start getting letter head and start sending letters from an "official" organization...
just_a_car
Regular Member
imported post
gregma wrote:
gregma wrote:
Maybe even register it as an "official" non-profit organization?... I saw that we have http://www.nwcdl.org, but I'm not sure if we're actually registered as such.
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
imported post
just_a_car wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
Simple and easy to do, basically just like starting a corp unless you want 501c.
gregma
Regular Member
imported post
Dave_pro2a wrote:
Dave_pro2a wrote:
Well, we don't want to hijack this thread. Can we continue this discussion over there? I think it's getting critical to get the ball moving and prepare for the fight that Lt. Wilson (and his ilk) has put before us.
gregma
Regular Member
imported post
just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
Even one of those ear thingies for cell phones, or a cell phone itself would in all likelyhood be removed from you during the "stop".
However, a recorder in your pocket, with a lapel mic could not even remotely be justified in having it confiscated. There is no way it could be used as any kind of weapon so they won't have that excuse.
You can get an 8 hour model and have it running the entire time you're out and about and thus never have to worry about "starting it".
It's what I do.
just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
Unless you have someone with you that can use the camcorder, I would not recommend one. There is no way a cop is going to allow you to use one when he is "investigating" you. It will be the first thing you are told to drop. Probably with some cowardly excuse like "officer safety".
Even one of those ear thingies for cell phones, or a cell phone itself would in all likelyhood be removed from you during the "stop".
However, a recorder in your pocket, with a lapel mic could not even remotely be justified in having it confiscated. There is no way it could be used as any kind of weapon so they won't have that excuse.
You can get an 8 hour model and have it running the entire time you're out and about and thus never have to worry about "starting it".
It's what I do.
Preston1911
New member
imported post
Trigger Dr wrote:
Hey Trigger Dr.
I don't specifically recall the Marlin collection. I should though, because I spent enough time there to see everything at least twice. It was a great show. Hope SV LIb decides to take some kind of action with poor behavior of Officer Oniel.
take car Jim,
preston
Trigger Dr wrote:
45-1911
Preston,
Did you see the table with the Marlin Rifle collection? The jolly fat guy setting there is my attorney friend referred to SV Lib.
Is he gun friendly
Jim
Hey Trigger Dr.
I don't specifically recall the Marlin collection. I should though, because I spent enough time there to see everything at least twice. It was a great show. Hope SV LIb decides to take some kind of action with poor behavior of Officer Oniel.
take car Jim,
preston
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
I guess my only real question is when did Olympia become a seperate country and police state where Washington State law and the Washington State Constitutionisn't applicable anymore?
I guess my only real question is when did Olympia become a seperate country and police state where Washington State law and the Washington State Constitutionisn't applicable anymore?
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
Trigger Dr wrote:
Trigger Dr wrote:
Ah, so you know Randy huh? Been shooting with him and a number of other Marlin fanatics for quite some time now. FYI, he is also an ex-LEO and a part time judge and very smart too.45-1911
Preston,
Did you see the table with the Marlin Rifle collection? The jolly fat guy setting there is my attorney friend referred to SV Lib.
Is he gun friendly
Jim
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
I lied, the other question that comes to mind is; What law says that officer safety comes before Constitutional Rights, state and federal?
I lied, the other question that comes to mind is; What law says that officer safety comes before Constitutional Rights, state and federal?
