Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Email I sent to Mayor Foutch

  1. #1
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Part of an email from Lt. Wilson read "Our community, including our police force, is not and probably never will never be at ease with people walking around with a gun or any other instrument capable of inflicting deadly force."

    Now I believe we can all agree that the Washington State Constitution clearly protects the lawful bearing of arms.

    I expressed before how I found this to be a disturbing statement. Is the OPD the only department in the City of Olympia that is "not at ease" with civil liberties, or are there others? Are there other civil liberties that the OPD or City of Olympia are "not at ease" with?

    I would like to see an official clarification of this statement. Either the City and the OPD accepts all civil liberties and works with the community to protect and safeguard those liberties, or they oppress them. Which one is it?

    All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken. There was an attempt at coercing me to act in a certain manner I was not legally obligated to do. Lt. Wilson's statement makes me wonder if there is a "culture" in the OPD that has a desire to keep armed citizens in "their place."

    I have asked Lt. Wilson for a meeting with him, Chief Michel and yourself. Ideally I would like to see someone from the City Attorney's office as well, since I do not believe anyone else is a lawyer. I hope this meeting can come to pass, as there are some serious issues I would like to discuss, and I feel it would be best to do so in a single meeting, rather than play email tag.

    I understand you have a lot of other issues right now as well, what with the protests and everything, and hope time can be found to accommodate my request. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx if you have any other questions or concerns.

    Thank you,
    Steve Coffman

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, WA, ,
    Posts
    886

    Post imported post

    Sounds OK to me, and I like how you changed your location to "La-La Land." You should REALLY have legal representationthere, and it might have even been better if your lawyer had "requested" a meeting take place. They know you're not just blowing smoke at that point. Oh, and if you DO decide to contact any media, at any point w/in your struggle here, contact FOX new only. The rest, if you get any coverage at all, will turn you into an armed fanatical.

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    I don't have a lawyer right now... Oh, and as far as media goes, my direct deposit check every week comes from McClatchey. They own two newspapers in the south sound. I am an authorized agent for the one where I live. I have found them to be respectful of gun rights.

    As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.

    Will you be down this weekend?

    Steve

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Blaine, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,315

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.
    Do you get tired of liberal crap by the media or suggestions that most of the big media are liberal and crap?

    PS Great letter. Well done.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Redmond, Washington, USA
    Posts
    618

    Post imported post

    What a great letter Steve! Very strongly worded, yet still polite to a degree. MUCH better than I could have done. I have no tact

  6. #6
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken.
    You probably should have said "All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken by me.", since it is rather apparent that the officers did, indeed, break one or more laws and infringed on your civil rights "under color of law".
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, WA, ,
    Posts
    886

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    I don't have a lawyer right now... Oh, and as far as media goes, my direct deposit check every week comes from McClatchey. They own two newspapers in the south sound. I am an authorized agent for the one where I live. I have found them to be respectful of gun rights.

    As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.

    Will you be down this weekend?

    Steve
    I wouldn't even suggest that ALL media is bad. In fact, it's neccessary to our liberty just as our 2nd Amendment rights are. I would only suggest that I have read and watched and heard more anti-gun propaganda pushed on to Americans as "fact" than I would have liked. I have a family friend that is an editor here in Tacoma at the TNT. I always give him a hard time, but he is a gun owner, and has legitimately asked a few questions regarding CCW and firearms transfers and such.

    I'll try and be down, maybe only for dinner though, so keep us posted as far as when & where dinner will be, if plans change. I just gotta convince the wife to get the 2 kids to bed on her own, and find an alternate, because I'm on call that evening, too.

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bear, Delaware, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    You should reword that to say, "Both party agrees that I broke no laws." As it's certainly debatable that the officers did.

  9. #9
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    Great letter.


  10. #10
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    heresolong wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.
    Do you get tired of liberal crap by the media or suggestions that most of the big media are liberal and crap?

    PS Great letter. Well done.
    Both. There is a lot of liberal crap, but there are also mainstream media outlets that do not deserve that title. Anyway, that phrase "it's too liberal" is the bane of my existance :P

    Steve

  11. #11
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Here is Mayor Foutch's response, and mine. Read from the bottom up.

    I understand you are not an "executive" type mayor. Lt. Wilson used the term "city executives" and I kind of ran with it.

    I agree, Lt. Wilson is highly professional, and I believe he has a difficult balancing act to do right now.

    You mention open carry in an urban enviroment, and this is what really frustrates me about Olympia. I do it all the time in the heart of downtown Seattle, never any problems. Here? Little 'ol Olympia? Problems. My problem is I do not believe I was contacted ina safe and courteous manner by the OPD in this stop. I may have mentioned, this is nearly unique in the annals of open carry stops in recent history.

    As far as "exercising rights to the hilt" there is a difference between the recent protests, and peaceably carrying a weapon for personal defense. Part of the problem is some of the public does not understand the laws, and it appears there is much misinformation on the part of the police. The public is a large audience and it takes work to educate them. The Police are a small audience, and should be more easily educated, and have a firmer grasp of the law. I believe I have a duty to do my part in educating the public, but I also believe the Police have a duty to educate the public as well. I don't think either one of us want the police wasting their time on pointless "Man with a gun calls" I counted five officers either on scene or driving by. That is a considerable portion of the on duty force that could have been doing better things with better information from dispatch, and better contact procedures.

    I appreciate that you are a "lame duck" :-) But this did happen on "your watch" so to speak. Plus the City Manager has not replied to an email I sent him requesting copies of internal communications on this matter. If you could ask him to speak directly with me, I would be more than happy to pick this up with him.

    Thanks,
    Steve


    On Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM, Mark Foutch <mfoutch@ci.olympia.wa.us> wrote:



    Steve, I am not an "executive" type mayor. In Olympia (as in many other mid-size cities) we have the Council-Manager form of government. The city manager is the municipal corporation's CEO and the direct supervisor of the police chief (and all other department heads). The mayor is president of the Council, a legislative body, and the City's ceremonial/etc. representative.

    In addition, I am leaving office as of midnight December 31. Councilmember Doug Mah is the mayor-elect. What with all my other official and family responsibilities this time of year, I'm not inclined to get involved in this issue and doubt whether my personal participation would be productive.

    I would offer the following three opinions, though, for what they are worth:

    First, Lt Wilson in my long experience here is a "down the line," objective and professionalofficer and an absolutely fine choice for the role he's in as the department's professional standards officer. From what I've read of your exchanges he is doing his level best to make sure our department has acted, and continues to act, in a way that meets all applicable laws, professional standards, and department policies, and to communicate with you honestly and completely and courteously.

    Second, given the recent bloody history of school and shopping mall massacres elsewhere in the country, I imagine that theOlympia community and police department are by no means the only ones who would be extremely and professionally concerned by the sight of someone openly carrying firearms in an urban setting, no matter how much they may understandand support Constitutional rights and related case law. Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.

    Third, I think we as citizens have to balance our desire to exercise all our Constitutional rights (for example topeaceably assemble to petition government for redress of grievances), with the needs of other citizens (for example to enjoy mobility on public rights of way.) If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.

    But that's just my take on these issues, and as I'm a lame duck with just two weeks to go, take it for what it's worth. :&gt

    Mark

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    Can you say "sidestep"?!?!?!

    Holy cow that was the worst response I have ever seen come from a mayor regardless of the topic, well except for maybe Nichols.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  13. #13
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.
    The mayor doesn't understand police work or know the law. You're wasting your time talking to him.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,227

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.
    "So yeah man, like come'on, give up some of your rights some of the time."

    Mayor, which inalienable rights are YOU willing to give up?

    Right to freedom of speech?

    Right to be freedom of religion?

    Right to be free from unreasonable search and seizures?

    Right to due process and being free from double jeopardy?

    Right to a jury trail?

    Right to not being subjected to an excessively high bail, as well as cruel and unsual punishment?

    Which rights will you give up Mr. Mayor, in order to let others "feel safe or secure in their daily public lives."

    By the way, I would really appreciate you pointing out to me where it says ANY PERSON has a right to FEEL safe and secure as they go about living their life. I can't find that in the Constitution of the United States of America, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independance, the Washington State Constitution, etc.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

  15. #15
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    So basically the response you got was:

    "Well, everyone is great and professional.....except for you, you bad bad citizen! Shame on you for carrying an evil gun!Only us official guys get to do that, you hear me? Well, I'm busy with Christmas and all that, and even if I wasn't,I'm outta here...so....someone else's problem now. See ya!" *Gives you the middle finger as he walks away, laughing.....*

    I could be wrong.....but I only worked in city government for the better part of a year.....with a mayor who sounded shockingly similar to this one......I bet they get together on the weekends and bathe themselves in the taxpayer money they've stolen from their constituents.......I guarantee you are wasting your breath and time here, you will find no allies in the Mayor's office.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    SNIP
    If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.
    I always like these hypocrites who say in one breath that you have a certain right, but say in the next breath that you shouldn't exercise it.

    They're too stupid to even realize they're contradicting themselves.

    Theycan't possibly agree with the existence of a particular right and then evidencetheir disagreement by saying it shouldn't be exercised.They disagreed with the right all along.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Arlington, Washington, USA
    Posts
    374

    Post imported post

    Intersting how nobody (except us!) seems concerned about your right to "feel" safe.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    778

    Post imported post

    I think the mayor's response was quite acceptable. He seemed upfront about the situation. He is only in office for a few more weeks which is not much time in any case, and with the holidays in there he probably is not going to do much of anything.

    You are trying to exercise a right that few people have exercised for quite some time. Its not surprising that a lot of people do not know the law. The law on a lot of things, especially firearms is very confusing. TV and the movies rarely get it right when they describe what the laws are, and a surprising number of people get most of their information on gun laws there.

    You are on the front lines of protecting our vanishing civil liberties by actually using several of them at once.



  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SeaTac, Washington, USA
    Posts
    434

    Post imported post

    Someone would have to explain to me why their 'right' to feel safe is superior to your constitutionally protected right to be safe.



    irfner

  20. #20
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953

    Post imported post

    Sorry, but in the City of Olympia, with their City Manager form of Government, Mayors are not allowed to have testicles. The official carrier of the "nads" is the Manager. I would write a letter to HIM and see how well he carrys them.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    On Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM, Mark Foutch <mfoutch@ci.olympia.wa.us> wrote:

    Steve, I am not an "executive" type mayor. In Olympia (as in many other mid-size cities) we have the Council-Manager form of government. The city manager is the municipal corporation's CEO and the direct supervisor of the police chief (and all other department heads). The mayor is president of the Council, a legislative body, and the City's ceremonial/etc. representative.

    In addition, I am leaving office as of midnight December 31. Councilmember Doug Mah is the mayor-elect. What with all my other official and family responsibilities this time of year, I'm not inclined to get involved in this issue and doubt whether my personal participation would be productive.

    I would offer the following three opinions, though, for what they are worth:

    First, Lt Wilson in my long experience here is a "down the line," objective and professionalofficer and an absolutely fine choice for the role he's in as the department's professional standards officer. From what I've read of your exchanges he is doing his level best to make sure our department has acted, and continues to act, in a way that meets all applicable laws, professional standards, and department policies, and to communicate with you honestly and completely and courteously.

    Second, given the recent bloody history of school and shopping mall massacres elsewhere in the country, I imagine that theOlympia community and police department are by no means the only ones who would be extremely and professionally concerned by the sight of someone openly carrying firearms in an urban setting, no matter how much they may understandand support Constitutional rights and related case law. Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.

    Third, I think we as citizens have to balance our desire to exercise all our Constitutional rights (for example topeaceably assemble to petition government for redress of grievances), with the needs of other citizens (for example to enjoy mobility on public rights of way.) If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.

    But that's just my take on these issues, and as I'm a lame duck with just two weeks to go, take it for what it's worth. :>

    Mark
    What a police state enthusiast! The Mayor thinks its OK for the police to stop citizens non-consensually without reasonable suspicsion of any crime being committed. Disgraceful!

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    ilbob wrote:
    I think the mayor's response was quite acceptable. He seemed upfront about the situation. He is only in office for a few more weeks which is not much time in any case, and with the holidays in there he probably is not going to do much of anything.

    You are trying to exercise a right that few people have exercised for quite some time. Its not surprising that a lot of people do not know the law. The law on a lot of things, especially firearms is very confusing. TV and the movies rarely get it right when they describe what the laws are, and a surprising number of people get most of their information on gun laws there.

    You are on the front lines of protecting our vanishing civil liberties by actually using several of them at once.

    This from a guy fromIllinois where they have some real winner gun laws in a bunch of their cities that deny your Constitutional rights. But then you guys all thought Daly was a great mayor.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lake Stevens, ,
    Posts
    25

    Post imported post

    Guess we know why he is a lame duck

  24. #24
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    He didn't run for reelection. And Manger Hall isn't returning any of my emails. I asked Foutch to have Hall get in touch with me.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,227

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Here is Mayor Foutch's response:
    If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.


    Mark
    That logic could be used to justify breaking the law.

    "If we all insisted on obeying all laws, all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one being able to actually do anything intheir daily public lives."

    Just look what happens when everyone obeys the speed limit:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=iskEUMRVuow


    So I agree Mayor, sometimes you have to break the law in order to actually live your daily life.

    :celebrate
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •