Email I sent to Mayor Foutch

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sv_libertarian wrote:

On Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM, Mark Foutch <mfoutch@ci.olympia.wa.us> wrote:

Steve, I am not an "executive" type mayor. In Olympia (as in many other mid-size cities) we have the Council-Manager form of government. The city manager is the municipal corporation's CEO and the direct supervisor of the police chief (and all other department heads). The mayor is president of the Council, a legislative body, and the City's ceremonial/etc. representative.

In addition, I am leaving office as of midnight December 31. Councilmember Doug Mah is the mayor-elect. What with all my other official and family responsibilities this time of year, I'm not inclined to get involved in this issue and doubt whether my personal participation would be productive.

I would offer the following three opinions, though, for what they are worth:

First, Lt Wilson in my long experience here is a "down the line," objective and professionalofficer and an absolutely fine choice for the role he's in as the department's professional standards officer. From what I've read of your exchanges he is doing his level best to make sure our department has acted, and continues to act, in a way that meets all applicable laws, professional standards, and department policies, and to communicate with you honestly and completely and courteously.

Second, given the recent bloody history of school and shopping mall massacres elsewhere in the country, I imagine that theOlympia community and police department are by no means the only ones who would be extremely and professionally concerned by the sight of someone openly carrying firearms in an urban setting, no matter how much they may understandand support Constitutional rights and related case law. Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.

Third, I think we as citizens have to balance our desire to exercise all our Constitutional rights (for example topeaceably assemble to petition government for redress of grievances), with the needs of other citizens (for example to enjoy mobility on public rights of way.) If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.

But that's just my take on these issues, and as I'm a lame duck with just two weeks to go, take it for what it's worth. :>

Mark​

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What a police state enthusiast! The Mayor thinks its OK for the police to stop citizens non-consensually without reasonable suspicsion of any crime being committed. Disgraceful!

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ilbob wrote:

I think the mayor's response was quite acceptable. He seemed upfront about the situation. He is only in office for a few more weeks which is not much time in any case, and with the holidays in there he probably is not going to do much of anything.

You are trying to exercise a right that few people have exercised for quite some time. Its not surprising that a lot of people do not know the law. The law on a lot of things, especially firearms is very confusing. TV and the movies rarely get it right when they describe what the laws are, and a surprising number of people get most of their information on gun laws there.

You are on the front lines of protecting our vanishing civil liberties by actually using several of them at once.

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This from a guy fromIllinois where they have some real winner gun laws in a bunch of their cities that deny your Constitutional rights. But then you guys all thought Daly was a great mayor.

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Guess we know why he is a lame duck

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He didn't run for reelection. And Manger Hall isn't returning any of my emails. I asked Foutch to have Hall get in touch with me.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Here is Mayor Foutch's response:

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If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.


Mark

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That logic could be used to justify breaking the law.

"If we all insisted on obeying all laws, all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one being able to actually do anything intheir daily public lives."

Just look what happens when everyone obeys the speed limit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iskEUMRVuow


So I agree Mayor, sometimes you have to break the law in order to actually live your daily life.

:celebrate

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Perhaps the main reason sv-lib is getting so much grief from Oly rank & file is because HE is the face that's familiar. HE is the one who started Professional Standards pissing in everyone cornflakes. This could spell the end of OPD selectively enforcing only the laws they approve of and the end of their particular brand of "creative enforcement". They need to "convince" sv_lib to stop stirring thing up. They can accomplish this by either getting him to give up and go away or by branding him a trouble-maker. It seems that the same oild faces keep popping up whenever he gets stopped and harrassed. I suspect there is a small "group" of officers down Oly way that have had long discussions regarding sv_lib and his actions. Perhaps this group is being looked at a little too closely by Lt Wilson?

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FTR: I completely agree with a friendly 'hey, I noticed you were carrying, heading to the range?' kind've 'confrontation'..... An officer is 10x more likely to get info being mr friendly than mr badass.... 'They' would realize you're not a threat, apologize or thank you for your time, and say goodbye on good terms, IOTW, you should 'look forward' to officer friendly coming by and being 'politely concerned'...

Unfortunately, instead of officer friendly 'hey, how's it goin?'...... you're getting officer asshole 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU CAN"T CARRY THAT! COVER IT UP!'

I personally would have no problem taking a few minutes to introduce myself... I'm 'in the business' myself (I sell/install emergency vehicle lighting and equipment).. ONE officer saying 'that guys alright' gets spread to ALL officers... Just like 'That guy is a prick', gets spread to ALL officers......


I think the whole issue comes down to respect.....If you respect me, I'll respect you, and I'll respect you until you disrespect me......


An officer that you can walk away from, with a handshake and a smile, from BOTH parties, is the best encounter you can have..... Problem is, the current climate prevents that from happening, since a lot of officers have an 'us vs them' attitude... the 'you're not a cop, why are you carrying a gun?' attitude..

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I've bumped into a few LEO and all of them have been amiable. So i think weenie has it right. You get more out of people with the carrot, and less with the stick.