• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Email I sent to Mayor Foutch

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

Part of an email from Lt. Wilson read "Our community, including our police force, is not and probably never will never be at ease with people walking around with a gun or any other instrument capable of inflicting deadly force."

Now I believe we can all agree that the Washington State Constitution clearly protects the lawful bearing of arms.

I expressed before how I found this to be a disturbing statement. Is the OPD the only department in the City of Olympia that is "not at ease" with civil liberties, or are there others? Are there other civil liberties that the OPD or City of Olympia are "not at ease" with?

I would like to see an official clarification of this statement. Either the City and the OPD accepts all civil liberties and works with the community to protect and safeguard those liberties, or they oppress them. Which one is it?

All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken. There was an attempt at coercing me to act in a certain manner I was not legally obligated to do. Lt. Wilson's statement makes me wonder if there is a "culture" in the OPD that has a desire to keep armed citizens in "their place."

I have asked Lt. Wilson for a meeting with him, Chief Michel and yourself. Ideally I would like to see someone from the City Attorney's office as well, since I do not believe anyone else is a lawyer. I hope this meeting can come to pass, as there are some serious issues I would like to discuss, and I feel it would be best to do so in a single meeting, rather than play email tag.

I understand you have a lot of other issues right now as well, what with the protests and everything, and hope time can be found to accommodate my request. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx if you have any other questions or concerns.

Thank you,
Steve Coffman
 

G20-IWB24/7

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
886
Location
Tacoma, WA, ,
imported post

Sounds OK to me, and I like how you changed your location to "La-La Land." You should REALLY have legal representationthere, and it might have even been better if your lawyer had "requested" a meeting take place. They know you're not just blowing smoke at that point. Oh, and if you DO decide to contact any media, at any point w/in your struggle here, contact FOX new only. The rest, if you get any coverage at all, will turn you into an armed fanatical.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

I don't have a lawyer right now... Oh, and as far as media goes, my direct deposit check every week comes from McClatchey. They own two newspapers in the south sound. I am an authorized agent for the one where I live. I have found them to be respectful of gun rights.

As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.

Will you be down this weekend?

Steve
 

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.
Do you get tired of liberal crap by the media or suggestions that most of the big media are liberal and crap?

PS Great letter. Well done.
 

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken.
You probably should have said "All parties in this recent unfortunate encounter agree that no laws were broken by me.", since it is rather apparent that the officers did, indeed, break one or more laws and infringed on your civil rights "under color of law".
 

G20-IWB24/7

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
886
Location
Tacoma, WA, ,
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
I don't have a lawyer right now... Oh, and as far as media goes, my direct deposit check every week comes from McClatchey. They own two newspapers in the south sound. I am an authorized agent for the one where I live. I have found them to be respectful of gun rights.

As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.

Will you be down this weekend?

Steve

I wouldn't even suggest that ALL media is bad. In fact, it's neccessary to our liberty just as our 2nd Amendment rights are. I would only suggest that I have read and watched and heard more anti-gun propaganda pushed on to Americans as "fact" than I would have liked. I have a family friend that is an editor here in Tacoma at the TNT. I always give him a hard time, but he is a gun owner, and has legitimately asked a few questions regarding CCW and firearms transfers and such.

I'll try and be down, maybe only for dinner though, so keep us posted as far as when & where dinner will be, if plans change. I just gotta convince the wife to get the 2 kids to bed on her own, and find an alternate, because I'm on call that evening, too.
 

Wynder

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
1,241
Location
Bear, Delaware, USA
imported post

You should reword that to say, "Both party agrees that I broke no laws." As it's certainly debatable that the officers did.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

heresolong wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
As a sales agent, I get so sick and tired of liberal media crap. Sorry. Being a bit defensive. Glad you liked my letter. Just please don't suggest all media is bad.
Do you get tired of liberal crap by the media or suggestions that most of the big media are liberal and crap?

PS Great letter. Well done.

Both. There is a lot of liberal crap, but there are also mainstream media outlets that do not deserve that title. Anyway, that phrase "it's too liberal" is the bane of my existance :p

Steve
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

Here is Mayor Foutch's response, and mine. Read from the bottom up.

I understand you are not an "executive" type mayor. Lt. Wilson used the term "city executives" and I kind of ran with it.

I agree, Lt. Wilson is highly professional, and I believe he has a difficult balancing act to do right now.

You mention open carry in an urban enviroment, and this is what really frustrates me about Olympia. I do it all the time in the heart of downtown Seattle, never any problems. Here? Little 'ol Olympia? Problems. My problem is I do not believe I was contacted ina safe and courteous manner by the OPD in this stop. I may have mentioned, this is nearly unique in the annals of open carry stops in recent history.

As far as "exercising rights to the hilt" there is a difference between the recent protests, and peaceably carrying a weapon for personal defense. Part of the problem is some of the public does not understand the laws, and it appears there is much misinformation on the part of the police. The public is a large audience and it takes work to educate them. The Police are a small audience, and should be more easily educated, and have a firmer grasp of the law. I believe I have a duty to do my part in educating the public, but I also believe the Police have a duty to educate the public as well. I don't think either one of us want the police wasting their time on pointless "Man with a gun calls" I counted five officers either on scene or driving by. That is a considerable portion of the on duty force that could have been doing better things with better information from dispatch, and better contact procedures.

I appreciate that you are a "lame duck" :) But this did happen on "your watch" so to speak. Plus the City Manager has not replied to an email I sent him requesting copies of internal communications on this matter. If you could ask him to speak directly with me, I would be more than happy to pick this up with him.

Thanks,
Steve


On Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM, Mark Foutch <mfoutch@ci.olympia.wa.us> wrote:



Steve, I am not an "executive" type mayor. In Olympia (as in many other mid-size cities) we have the Council-Manager form of government. The city manager is the municipal corporation's CEO and the direct supervisor of the police chief (and all other department heads). The mayor is president of the Council, a legislative body, and the City's ceremonial/etc. representative.

In addition, I am leaving office as of midnight December 31. Councilmember Doug Mah is the mayor-elect. What with all my other official and family responsibilities this time of year, I'm not inclined to get involved in this issue and doubt whether my personal participation would be productive.

I would offer the following three opinions, though, for what they are worth:

First, Lt Wilson in my long experience here is a "down the line," objective and professionalofficer and an absolutely fine choice for the role he's in as the department's professional standards officer. From what I've read of your exchanges he is doing his level best to make sure our department has acted, and continues to act, in a way that meets all applicable laws, professional standards, and department policies, and to communicate with you honestly and completely and courteously.

Second, given the recent bloody history of school and shopping mall massacres elsewhere in the country, I imagine that theOlympia community and police department are by no means the only ones who would be extremely and professionally concerned by the sight of someone openly carrying firearms in an urban setting, no matter how much they may understandand support Constitutional rights and related case law. Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.

Third, I think we as citizens have to balance our desire to exercise all our Constitutional rights (for example topeaceably assemble to petition government for redress of grievances), with the needs of other citizens (for example to enjoy mobility on public rights of way.) If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.

But that's just my take on these issues, and as I'm a lame duck with just two weeks to go, take it for what it's worth. :>)

Mark
 

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Can you say "sidestep"?!?!?!

Holy cow that was the worst response I have ever seen come from a mayor regardless of the topic, well except for maybe Nichols.
 

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

Try it in most urban areas and see what response you get. I think (I hope) you'd be checked out by the local police, every time, in a courteous,safe and professional manner.

The mayor doesn't understand police work or know the law. You're wasting your time talking to him.
 

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.

"So yeah man, like come'on, give up some of your rights some of the time."

Mayor, which inalienable rights are YOU willing to give up?

Right to freedom of speech?

Right to be freedom of religion?

Right to be free from unreasonable search and seizures?

Right to due process and being free from double jeopardy?

Right to a jury trail?

Right to not being subjected to an excessively high bail, as well as cruel and unsual punishment?

Which rights will you give up Mr. Mayor, in order to let others "feel safe or secure in their daily public lives."

By the way, I would really appreciate you pointing out to me where it says ANY PERSON has a right to FEEL safe and secure as they go about living their life. I can't find that in the Constitution of the United States of America, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independance, the Washington State Constitution, etc.
 

compmanio365

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
2,013
Location
Pierce County, Washington, USA
imported post

So basically the response you got was:

"Well, everyone is great and professional.....except for you, you bad bad citizen! Shame on you for carrying an evil gun!Only us official guys get to do that, you hear me? Well, I'm busy with Christmas and all that, and even if I wasn't,I'm outta here...so....someone else's problem now. See ya!" *Gives you the middle finger as he walks away, laughing.....*

I could be wrong.....but I only worked in city government for the better part of a year.....with a mayor who sounded shockingly similar to this one......I bet they get together on the weekends and bathe themselves in the taxpayer money they've stolen from their constituents.......I guarantee you are wasting your breath and time here, you will find no allies in the Mayor's office.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:
SNIP
If we all insisted on exercising all of our rights all at once, to the hilt, we would end up with no one feeling safe or secure in their daily public lives.
I always like these hypocrites who say in one breath that you have a certain right, but say in the next breath that you shouldn't exercise it.

They're too stupid to even realize they're contradicting themselves.

Theycan't possibly agree with the existence of a particular right and then evidencetheir disagreement by saying it shouldn't be exercised.They disagreed with the right all along.
 

ilbob

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
778
Location
, Illinois, USA
imported post

I think the mayor's response was quite acceptable. He seemed upfront about the situation. He is only in office for a few more weeks which is not much time in any case, and with the holidays in there he probably is not going to do much of anything.

You are trying to exercise a right that few people have exercised for quite some time. Its not surprising that a lot of people do not know the law. The law on a lot of things, especially firearms is very confusing. TV and the movies rarely get it right when they describe what the laws are, and a surprising number of people get most of their information on gun laws there.

You are on the front lines of protecting our vanishing civil liberties by actually using several of them at once.
 

irfner

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
434
Location
SeaTac, Washington, USA
imported post

Someone would have to explain to me why their 'right' to feel safe is superior to your constitutionally protected right to be safe.



irfner
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

Sorry, but in the City of Olympia, with their City Manager form of Government, Mayors are not allowed to have testicles. The official carrier of the "nads" is the Manager. I would write a letter to HIM and see how well he carrys them.
 
Top