View Poll Results: If you are forced to defend yourself against a 250+ lb attacker, what caliber do you choose?

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  • A. 9mm

    61 25.52%
  • B. .357 Magnum

    24 10.04%
  • C. .40

    31 12.97%
  • D. 10mm

    13 5.44%
  • E. .44 Magnum

    21 8.79%
  • F. .45 ACP

    89 37.24%
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Thread: Why do people always make fun of the 9mm?

  1. #1
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    Why do people feel the need to make fun of the 9mm? The ballistics on the round are excellent, especially when you are dealing with +P or +P+ Loads. I think that shot placement is more important. Stick with the old "2 in the chest, 1 in the head" mentality and everything will work out fine.

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    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    Why do people feel the need to make fun of the 9mm? The ballistics on the round are excellent, especially when you are dealing with +P or +P+ Loads. I think that shot placement is more important. Stick with the old "2 in the chest, 1 in the head" mentality and everything will work out fine.
    Probably lack of tact.

    If a fella chose a 9mm, he must have had his reasons. Maybe for him it was, "the largest caliber he could comfortably control." Maybe it was another reason. Maybe, like me, he wasn't aware of other important considerations.

    Either way, its a little silly to laugh at another's choice of caliber. Especially if he happens to be wearing something in that caliber.
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  3. #3
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    I carry a Sigma in 9mm sw9ve9mm...

    The ammo is quite reasonable, ballistics are good, I shoot it well, it holds 17 rounds.

    Can I shoot .45 well.... yes, just as good on the first shot, on follow up shots in quick succession I am much better with 9mm. I can fire off all 17 in rapid succession hitting a target at 25 feet with ease, most SD situations happen within this range...

    Most people will bring up stopping power... once you get into 9mm and up, I think stopping power isn't as big of an argument as people make it out to be, especially if you carry a good 9mm load, it becomes more of an issue of shot placement.

    Then you also have the tradeoff of caliber vs. capacity, personally I prefer the capacity of my firearm, 17 rounds, with a good 9mm round.

    Stopping power can be a much more relevant issue when talking about a .45 vs. a .22, but people can be seriously injured and killed with a .22 as easily as a .45...

    People are always going to argue that bigger is better, espcially if they own the bigger. Most of the time you can gain some type of advantage with a .45 over the 9mm but if you have good shot placement this difference is negligible.

    I think the best round though is the .357, even though I carry a 9mm.



  4. #4
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    Shot placement is obvious, and those +p, some sort of special hollowpoints, hmm, ok...

    Head shot....lol

    Now, is the 250 pound BG high on meth or crack or on PCP? I think the .44 mag will do LOL, even better the .500 or .50AE.

    But otherwise if you must- .45 acp from an XD 45 with those 13 round mags...

    I would have maybe gotten an XD45 but the .40 was used and alot cheaper, all they had in the .45 was brand new and expensive, plus this gun is mostly for target shooting ( though its sitting next to me right now-in case some dingleberry scumbag breaks in here), and those .45's are a bit more pricy... and the results of the .40 hp's in the deer neck meat satisfied me too. If a .40 is to a human as a .22 is to a fox or raccoon, then it would be pretty nasty, because I tell you those .22's make a lil mess inside with those lil critters. It doesn't take long for a dbl lung shot red fox to die either.

    again if all else fails...head shots LOL

  5. #5
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    XD40coyote wrote:
    Shot placement is obvious, and those +p, some sort of special hollowpoints, hmm, ok...

    Head shot....lol

    Now, is the 250 pound BG high on meth or crack or on PCP? I think the .44 mag will do LOL, even better the .500 or .50AE.

    But otherwise if you must- .45 acp from an XD 45 with those 13 round mags...

    I would have maybe gotten an XD45 but the .40 was used and alot cheaper, all they had in the .45 was brand new and expensive, plus this gun is mostly for target shooting ( though its sitting next to me right now-in case some dingleberry scumbag breaks in here), and those .45's are a bit more pricy... and the results of the .40 hp's in the deer neck meat satisfied me too. If a .40 is to a human as a .22 is to a fox or raccoon, then it would be pretty nasty, because I tell you those .22's make a lil mess inside with those lil critters. It doesn't take long for a dbl lung shot red fox to die either.

    again if all else fails...head shots LOL
    Hey XD, I've got my Glock 30 sitting here with me by the computer in case some dingleberry tries to break in here, too. Good to see that other people have the same mentality about being safe no matter where you are

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't say the ballistics are excellent. But I do not have a problem using a 9mm as a defensive cartridge. For the time being, 357Sig is my preferred cartridge.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    Shot placement is obvious, and those +p, some sort of special hollowpoints, hmm, ok...

    Head shot....lol

    Now, is the 250 pound BG high on meth or crack or on PCP? I think the .44 mag will do LOL, even better the .500 or .50AE.

    But otherwise if you must- .45 acp from an XD 45 with those 13 round mags...

    I would have maybe gotten an XD45 but the .40 was used and alot cheaper, all they had in the .45 was brand new and expensive, plus this gun is mostly for target shooting ( though its sitting next to me right now-in case some dingleberry scumbag breaks in here), and those .45's are a bit more pricy... and the results of the .40 hp's in the deer neck meat satisfied me too. If a .40 is to a human as a .22 is to a fox or raccoon, then it would be pretty nasty, because I tell you those .22's make a lil mess inside with those lil critters. It doesn't take long for a dbl lung shot red fox to die either.

    again if all else fails...head shots LOL
    Hey XD, I've got my Glock 30 sitting here with me by the computer in case some dingleberry tries to break in here, too. Good to see that other people have the same mentality about being safe no matter where you are
    I seem overly paranoid lately. I live waaay off the road and in the house are 4 dogs, 2 of them very protective. However I am not in the house right now, but one of my buildings, no dogs here. Nothing has ever happened back here and the doors are unlocked when we are all home, vehicles always unlocked. But some dumsh!ts in the area have been breaking into houses and stuff and ransacking, and generally not stealing anything. But police response out here could be forever, so... years back some dumb neighbors had some dumb friends of theres over for target shooting, and they weren't watching where they were aiming. My mother heard a bullet fly by her and got pissed and called the cops ( after ducking down and making her way back to the house). These were not neighbors you could have a friendly chat with such as " uhh could you shoot thataways and not over here?". Cops took FOREVER ( like 2 hours) to get here and by then the dumb neighbors friends had finished and left. I imagine if the 911 call had been " our neighbors just shot someone", the response would have been a hell of alot quicker. But in true self defense situations ... when seconds count...

  8. #8
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    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    Why do people feel the need to make fun of the 9mm?
    Honestly---because they've never been shot with one.

    (Or they've never seen someone on a coroner's table because of the 9mm.)

  9. #9
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    Ask SGTJensen what I think about 9mm

  10. #10
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    I choose 45acp. My hand doesn't fit hi-capacity double stack guns well. I have always shot best with 1911 45's. I shoot them better than my 22 magnum. So for me, accurate shot placement and the stopping power of a 45 is best. Also I don't have to worry about over-penetration like 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 10mm, or even +p+ 9mm.

  11. #11
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    I chose .45 ACP as well. I've always carried this caliber, and I've been guilty in the past of riding my buddies who pack 9mms. In all honesty though, I plan on buying a KT PF9 in the very near future, and I wouldn't be willing to buy it and carry it if I didn't think it was an effective defensive round.

  12. #12
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Ask SGTJensen what I think about 9mm
    HA! Can anybody guess what caliber of round did NOT go through the wood in a box spring matress that is less than one inch thick? (No, it wasn't a .50 BMG) :P


    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Ask SGTJensen what I think about 9mm
    HA! Can anybody guess what caliber of round did NOT go through the wood in a box spring matress that is less than one inch thick? (No, it wasn't a .50 BMG) :P

    Better reconsider my choice of caliber for when I shoot at those guys made out of the same things as your mattress...

  14. #14
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    openryan wrote:
    Better reconsider my choice of caliber for when I shoot at those guys made out of the same things as [your] mattress...
    Insert - UTOC-45-44 :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Better reconsider my choice of caliber for when I shoot at those guys made out of the same things as [your] mattress...
    Insert - UTOC-45-44 :P
    So you guys were shooting his mattress?!

  16. #16
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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    I choose 45acp. My hand doesn't fit hi-capacity double stack guns well. I have always shot best with 1911 45's. I shoot them better than my 22 magnum. So for me, accurate shot placement and the stopping power of a 45 is best. Also I don't have to worry about over-penetration like 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 10mm, or even +p+ 9mm.
    Same with me....I voted .45acp although I carry 9mm most often now. I gave up 9mm a few years back when all the reports of overpenetration were out, LE switching cal etc...just didn't want to worry about it on top of everything else that you have to think about when carrying.
    More recenntly, it has been determined that a heavier, slower round is preferable in 9mm for stopping power and after doing some research bought my Sigma SW9gve....it's the only 9mm sidearm I have although I do have a KelTec carbine.
    I wanted to have a 9mm for one main reason...if/when SHTF, what will be the most available pistol round?
    If military is involved, they carry 9mm, at least most militaries of the world do. If it comes down to an "internal struggle" of some sort, most "gangstas" etc. also seem to prefer 9mm.
    I figured 9mm would be a good cal to have....just my thought.

  17. #17
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    Trick is to stock up for the zombie uprising now... > ) Then it doesn't matter what caliber you decide on for ammo availability.
    -Unrequited

  18. #18
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    Comp-tech wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    I choose 45acp. My hand doesn't fit hi-capacity double stack guns well. I have always shot best with 1911 45's. I shoot them better than my 22 magnum. So for me, accurate shot placement and the stopping power of a 45 is best. Also I don't have to worry about over-penetration like 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 10mm, or even +p+ 9mm.
    Same with me....I voted .45acp although I carry 9mm most often now. I gave up 9mm a few years back when all the reports of overpenetration were out, LE switching cal etc...just didn't want to worry about it on top of everything else that you have to think about when carrying.
    More recenntly, it has been determined that a heavier, slower round is preferable in 9mm for stopping power and after doing some research bought my Sigma SW9gve....it's the only 9mm sidearm I have although I do have a KelTec carbine.
    I wanted to have a 9mm for one main reason...if/when SHTF, what will be the most available pistol round?
    If military is involved, they carry 9mm, at least most militaries of the world do. If it comes down to an "internal struggle" of some sort, most "gangstas" etc. also seem to prefer 9mm.

    I figured 9mm would be a good cal to have....just my thought.
    If you take any pistol rounds from somebody (say an enemy you shot) couldn't you just as easily take thier pistol? Of course I'd rather use one of my own, but that option could still be available.

  19. #19
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    As far as what caliber I carry, it is usually .40. I do own a .45 and have carried a .357. I think all of those are dependable calibers. I've even have a .22 Mag mini revolver that I carry sometimes as a BUG or for very discreet concealment.

    I think the main point is shot placement like the OP said. But if I had to choose between any of the calibers I have owned I would choose .40 because of the extra capacity. 15 rounds vs. 6 (.357) or 8 (.45).

  20. #20
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    I used to carry .45acp. Let me explain why I carry 9mm. Once upon a time, I worked in the night club industry. The club I worked at was in a bad part of town, and attracted a gangsta element that frequently flashed guns and not so frequently fired them (although it did happen from time to time). Our club didn't serve alcohol, so our bouncers carried concealed firearms, and there were a couple of them that wore vests. I wasn't a bouncer, but I carried a Sig P220 (carried 7+1 in the gun, and 7 more in a spare mag) anyway.

    One night, a gangsta decided that he had "beef" with some of the rival gangstas in our parking lot. I saw people yelling and running across the parking lot back toward the club, followed by this gangsta, who was holding what looked like a Mac-11 with a 30-something round magazine. The group of about 30 people was crowded together and cornered at the end of the parking lot, while this guy proceded to yell at them in gansta-ese. I saw this all happening, but he hadn't seen me. I was about 15-20 yards away. I took cover behind a mini-van, puting the front axel between me and the potential shooter, and took aim (side-note, trijicons were very nice in this dimmly lit parking lot, but not necessary). I saw the bouncers stacking up against a wall, guns drawn, but it didn't appear to me that they had any intention of coming around the wall unless they absolutely had to (as in the guy starts shooting).

    For several reasons,I didn't take the shot. First of all, I had to get an immediately disabling shot, such as a headshot, since I didn't want him to react by emptying his machine pistol into the crowd. I didn't trust the accuracy of 45acp to accomplish this from this range. Now this is probably just my perception of the round, not it's actual characteristics. Second, there was an SUV full of people behind me, and if I ended up missing and the guy enganged me in a firefight, they would almost certainly be victims of it. And finally, there were about 5 guys standing 25 yards away from me, behind the shooter, who were obvously his fellow gangstas. I didn't know if they were armed, and I didn't want to be stuck in a shootout with 6 people and only have 15 rounds total.

    Fast-forward to now. I carry a 9mm which I trust to place a hydrashok in a skull at 15-20 yards, and I carry enough ammo to engage 6 targets. I am much more confident in my abilities with a 9mm, having shot both. I also now know the value of a carbine, although I've yet to buy one. My rifle will do fine for now.

    Another side note: I told this story to a british guy and he told me that I should have shot the gun out of his hand. I laughed at the thought, because a Mac11 fires from an open bolt. Putting a hole in the wrong place couldn't be a good thing.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    ....Because a 9mm is just a .45 set on "stun"!

    I own both. The ballistics for the 9mm have WAY more penetration than the .45 (like twice as much). It is the actual channel the bullet makes that causes the wound. The actual process of bleeding and losing oxygen to the brain.

    Even though the 9mm penetrates deeper, all you really need is more than 8 inches. The .45 caliber bullet leaves a larger hole, therefore, has the POTENTIAL to incapacitate faster.

    The .44 mag has the best chance of stopping the BG, but along with the 9mm it has the unfortunate tendency to OVERPENETRATE.

    You do not want to shoot the neighbors too.

    No matter what caliber you use, ANY penetration will incapacitate with a shot to the head or heart.

    So, technically, a .45 is much better if you plan on missing. Shot placement is the key to "stopping power".

    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to guarantee a head or heart shot if I'm unfortunate enough to get into a gunfight. I'm not planning on missing, but in that stressful of a situation, I'm probably not going to take the time to take a deep breath, double check my sight picture, and slowly squeeze the trigger maintaining proper trigger control.

    Nope. I'm using a .45 just in case I don't get a direct heart shot. You can use a 9mm all you want, but I'm hedging my bet.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    expvideo wrote:
    One night, a gangsta decided that he had "beef" with some of the rival gangstas in our parking lot. I saw people yelling and running across the parking lot back toward the club, followed by this gangsta, who was holding what looked like a Mac-11 with a 30-something round magazine. The group of about 30 people was crowded together and cornered at the end of the parking lot, while this guy proceded to yell at them in gansta-ese. I saw this all happening, but he hadn't seen me. I was about 15-20 yards away. I took cover behind a mini-van, puting the front axel between me and the potential shooter, and took aim (side-note, trijicons were very nice in this dimmly lit parking lot, but not necessary). I saw the bouncers stacking up against a wall, guns drawn, but it didn't appear to me that they had any intention of coming around the wall unless they absolutely had to (as in the guy starts shooting).

    For several reasons,I didn't take the shot. First of all, I had to get an immediately disabling shot, such as a headshot, since I didn't want him to react by emptying his machine pistol into the crowd. I didn't trust the accuracy of 45acp to accomplish this from this range. Now this is probably just my perception of the round, not it's actual characteristics. Second, there was an SUV full of people behind me, and if I ended up missing and the guy enganged me in a firefight, they would almost certainly be victims of it. And finally, there were about 5 guys standing 25 yards away from me, behind the shooter, who were obvously his fellow gangstas. I didn't know if they were armed, and I didn't want to be stuck in a shootout with 6 people and only have 15 rounds total.

    So? What happened at the parking lot? Finish your story damn it!
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  23. #23
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    Superlite27 wrote:
    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to guarantee a head or heart shot if I'm unfortunate enough to get into a gunfight. I'm not planning on missing, but in that stressful of a situation, I'm probably not going to take the time to take a deep breath, double check my sight picture, and slowly squeeze the trigger maintaining proper trigger control.
    That's why I don't practice like that at the range. I shoot as quickly as I can regain sight picture. I never understand how people can wait 1-2 seconds between shots. I shoot 2-3 shots per second, sometimes faster. I practice at about 7-9 yards, because most encounters will not happen past that. I also practice at greater distances with 1-2 shots per second, or as fast as I can regain sight picture. I don't worry about proper breath control. I only worry about making sure that the way I hold the gun and the way I squeeze the trigger are correct, and that I work on making correct them (along with stance) feel natural, so that I will actually use them when the SHTF.

    The fact is, the smaller the caliber, the better you have to shoot. I'm pretty content with my ability to shoot well. I think I'm pretty handy with a gun, so I'm not worried about carrying 9mm. Practice good shot placement, and you will have good shot placement.

  24. #24
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    ChinChin wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    One night, a gangsta decided that he had "beef" with some of the rival gangstas in our parking lot. I saw people yelling and running across the parking lot back toward the club, followed by this gangsta, who was holding what looked like a Mac-11 with a 30-something round magazine. The group of about 30 people was crowded together and cornered at the end of the parking lot, while this guy proceded to yell at them in gansta-ese. I saw this all happening, but he hadn't seen me. I was about 15-20 yards away. I took cover behind a mini-van, puting the front axel between me and the potential shooter, and took aim (side-note, trijicons were very nice in this dimmly lit parking lot, but not necessary). I saw the bouncers stacking up against a wall, guns drawn, but it didn't appear to me that they had any intention of coming around the wall unless they absolutely had to (as in the guy starts shooting).

    For several reasons,I didn't take the shot. First of all, I had to get an immediately disabling shot, such as a headshot, since I didn't want him to react by emptying his machine pistol into the crowd. I didn't trust the accuracy of 45acp to accomplish this from this range. Now this is probably just my perception of the round, not it's actual characteristics. Second, there was an SUV full of people behind me, and if I ended up missing and the guy enganged me in a firefight, they would almost certainly be victims of it. And finally, there were about 5 guys standing 25 yards away from me, behind the shooter, who were obvously his fellow gangstas. I didn't know if they were armed, and I didn't want to be stuck in a shootout with 6 people and only have 15 rounds total.

    So? What happened at the parking lot? Finish your story damn it!
    Oh, my bad. Somebody called the police and they had a quick response time. The guy heard sirens and took off. No shots fired, no criminal apprehended. Cops took statements and said that they would look for the guy, but I doubt anything came of it. It's SPD, afterall.



    Like most stories, this one just ends with the bouncers talking to eachother about "what they did" and making each of their own stories sound heroic. The fact of the matter was, a bunch of armed guys in bulletproof vests stood behind a wall, too affraid to confront one guy with a gun, but you wouldn't think that hearing the stories.

  25. #25
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    First, I'd choose a .729 caliber

    In lieu of that, 10mm, followed by either a .45 or .40 - das macht nichts.

    9mm? Nothing wrong with hot loads that expand well. I wouldn't make fun of anyone for what they carry.Some people can be more deadly with a .22, or for that matter-- a knife, than others could ever hope to be with a .45

    Usually the most critical part of the equation is the person, not the weapon.
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