Why do people always make fun of the 9mm?

imported post

....Because a 9mm is just a .45 set on "stun"!

I own both. The ballistics for the 9mm have WAY more penetration than the .45 (like twice as much). It is the actual channel the bullet makes that causes the wound. The actual process of bleeding and losing oxygen to the brain.

Even though the 9mm penetrates deeper, all you really need is more than 8 inches. The .45 caliber bullet leaves a larger hole, therefore, has the POTENTIAL to incapacitate faster.

The .44 mag has the best chance of stopping the BG, but along with the 9mm it has the unfortunate tendency to OVERPENETRATE.

You do not want to shoot the neighbors too.

No matter what caliber you use, ANY penetration will incapacitate with a shot to the head or heart.

So, technically, a .45 is much better if you plan on missing. Shot placement is the key to "stopping power".

I don't know about you, but I'm not going to guarantee a head or heart shot if I'm unfortunate enough to get into a gunfight. I'm not planning on missing, but in that stressful of a situation, I'm probably not going to take the time to take a deep breath, double check my sight picture, and slowly squeeze the trigger maintaining proper trigger control.

Nope. I'm using a .45 just in case I don't get a direct heart shot. You can use a 9mm all you want, but I'm hedging my bet.

imported post

expvideo wrote:

One night, a gangsta decided that he had "beef" with some of the rival gangstas in our parking lot. I saw people yelling and running across the parking lot back toward the club, followed by this gangsta, who was holding what looked like a Mac-11 with a 30-something round magazine. The group of about 30 people was crowded together and cornered at the end of the parking lot, while this guy proceded to yell at them in gansta-ese. I saw this all happening, but he hadn't seen me. I was about 15-20 yards away. I took cover behind a mini-van, puting the front axel between me and the potential shooter, and took aim (side-note, trijicons were very nice in this dimmly lit parking lot, but not necessary). I saw the bouncers stacking up against a wall, guns drawn, but it didn't appear to me that they had any intention of coming around the wall unless they absolutely had to (as in the guy starts shooting).

For several reasons,I didn't take the shot. First of all, I had to get an immediately disabling shot, such as a headshot, since I didn't want him to react by emptying his machine pistol into the crowd. I didn't trust the accuracy of 45acp to accomplish this from this range. Now this is probably just my perception of the round, not it's actual characteristics. Second, there was an SUV full of people behind me, and if I ended up missing and the guy enganged me in a firefight, they would almost certainly be victims of it. And finally, there were about 5 guys standing 25 yards away from me, behind the shooter, who were obvously his fellow gangstas. I didn't know if they were armed, and I didn't want to be stuck in a shootout with 6 people and only have 15 rounds total.

Click to expand...

So? What happened at the parking lot? Finish your story damn it!

imported post

Superlite27 wrote:

I don't know about you, but I'm not going to guarantee a head or heart shot if I'm unfortunate enough to get into a gunfight. I'm not planning on missing, but in that stressful of a situation, I'm probably not going to take the time to take a deep breath, double check my sight picture, and slowly squeeze the trigger maintaining proper trigger control.

Click to expand...

That's why I don't practice like that at the range. I shoot as quickly as I can regain sight picture. I never understand how people can wait 1-2 seconds between shots. I shoot 2-3 shots per second, sometimes faster. I practice at about 7-9 yards, because most encounters will not happen past that. I also practice at greater distances with 1-2 shots per second, or as fast as I can regain sight picture. I don't worry about proper breath control. I only worry about making sure that the way I hold the gun and the way I squeeze the trigger are correct, and that I work on making correct them (along with stance) feel natural, so that I will actually use them when the SHTF.

The fact is, the smaller the caliber, the better you have to shoot. I'm pretty content with my ability to shoot well. I think I'm pretty handy with a gun, so I'm not worried about carrying 9mm. Practice good shot placement, and you will have good shot placement.

imported post

ChinChin wrote:

expvideo wrote:

One night, a gangsta decided that he had "beef" with some of the rival gangstas in our parking lot. I saw people yelling and running across the parking lot back toward the club, followed by this gangsta, who was holding what looked like a Mac-11 with a 30-something round magazine. The group of about 30 people was crowded together and cornered at the end of the parking lot, while this guy proceded to yell at them in gansta-ese. I saw this all happening, but he hadn't seen me. I was about 15-20 yards away. I took cover behind a mini-van, puting the front axel between me and the potential shooter, and took aim (side-note, trijicons were very nice in this dimmly lit parking lot, but not necessary). I saw the bouncers stacking up against a wall, guns drawn, but it didn't appear to me that they had any intention of coming around the wall unless they absolutely had to (as in the guy starts shooting).

For several reasons,I didn't take the shot. First of all, I had to get an immediately disabling shot, such as a headshot, since I didn't want him to react by emptying his machine pistol into the crowd. I didn't trust the accuracy of 45acp to accomplish this from this range. Now this is probably just my perception of the round, not it's actual characteristics. Second, there was an SUV full of people behind me, and if I ended up missing and the guy enganged me in a firefight, they would almost certainly be victims of it. And finally, there were about 5 guys standing 25 yards away from me, behind the shooter, who were obvously his fellow gangstas. I didn't know if they were armed, and I didn't want to be stuck in a shootout with 6 people and only have 15 rounds total.

Click to expand...

So? What happened at the parking lot? Finish your story damn it!

Click to expand...

Oh, my bad. Somebody called the police and they had a quick response time. The guy heard sirens and took off. No shots fired, no criminal apprehended. Cops took statements and said that they would look for the guy, but I doubt anything came of it. It's SPD, afterall.



Like most stories, this one just ends with the bouncers talking to eachother about "what they did" and making each of their own stories sound heroic. The fact of the matter was, a bunch of armed guys in bulletproof vests stood behind a wall, too affraid to confront one guy with a gun, but you wouldn't think that hearing the stories.

imported post

First, I'd choose a .729 caliber

In lieu of that, 10mm, followed by either a .45 or .40 - das macht nichts.

9mm? Nothing wrong with hot loads that expand well. I wouldn't make fun of anyone for what they carry.Some people can be more deadly with a .22, or for that matter-- a knife, than others could ever hope to be with a .45

Usually the most critical part of the equation is the person, not the weapon.

imported post

I choose a 9mm as my primary carry piece at work mostly because of magazine capacity. I need something that holds a lot of rounds in case I get accosted by a gang of armed shitheads intent on strong-arm robbery (I use hollow points to mitigate overpenetration). I also have small girly hands and can't use 1911s and such fuller-framed pieces to good effect. I like small James Bond-like .380s as well, partly because I've smashed a lot of bones and my hands hurt if I shoot a larger caliber handgun. I have long guns for power when I need it...

-ljp

imported post

50or 500lb attacker, 10mm is my choice.
why??
Because that is whatI carry, going on almost 18yrs now.
Caliber choice is personal preferrence much like what type of car you drive.
People make fun of things because they can and sometimes it is FUNNY

Check out the great graphic design and detail


To prove my point
found this yesterday and thought it was funny:lol:, remember this is humor not slamming anyones caliber choice.
[url=http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Caliber-wars-t22247.html]http://http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Caliber-wars-t22247.html]http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Caliber-wars-t22247.html]http://http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Caliber-wars-t22247.html [/url]

imported post

vmaxanarchist wrote:

I choose 45acp. My hand doesn't fit hi-capacity double stack guns well. I have always shot best with 1911 45's. I shoot them better than my 22 magnum. So for me, accurate shot placement and the stopping power of a 45 is best. Also I don't have to worry about over-penetration like 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 10mm, or even +p+ 9mm.

Click to expand...

I have never been able to shoot well with a 1911 .45. I carry a 9mm with high cap mag. I can control my print group better with a 9mm and I like the fact that I have lots of rounds. I carry hollow point personal defence rounds and I am confident that they will do the job. My only fear is being in a situation where I don't have enough rounds. Now, if I had a "wheel" gun I might carry something bigger (i.e., .357 or.44) because I can print well with a six shooter, but I prefer a nice semi-auto 9mm with lots of ammo.

imported post

I carry an XD9... Simply because I'm not the best shot in the world and 9mm ammo is cheap. I hit the range 3-4 times a month and generally expend upwards of 200 rounds of ammunition. Because I want to be proficient with my weapon, I chose the chambering that would allow me the affordability to shoot and enough stopping power to put someone down.

imported post

Agent19 wrote:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4026/joketj7.jpg

Click to expand...

I almost fell out of my chair. I especially liked the .40 :lol:

imported post

Wynder wrote:

I carry an XD9... Simply because I'm not the best shot in the world and 9mm ammo is cheap. I hit the range 3-4 times a month and generally expend upwards of 200 rounds of ammunition. Because I want to be proficient with my weapon, I chose the chambering that would allow me the affordability to shoot and enough stopping power to put someone down.

Click to expand...

I reload. So, cost of practice ammunition isn't much of a consideration for me.

imported post

vmaxanarchist wrote:

Wynder wrote:

I carry an XD9... Simply because I'm not the best shot in the world and 9mm ammo is cheap. I hit the range 3-4 times a month and generally expend upwards of 200 rounds of ammunition. Because I want to be proficient with my weapon, I chose the chambering that would allow me the affordability to shoot and enough stopping power to put someone down.

Click to expand...

I reload. So, cost of practice ammunition isn't much of a consideration for me.

Click to expand...

I'm getting my press for Christmas, but still, the price between 1000 bullets for 9mm and .45 acp is about $30. Not all that much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm really anxious to get my press -- I have about 5000 casings saved up, heh.

imported post

During my law enforcement career (25+ years) I have qualified with and carried a .38 special, a .357 magnum, a 9mm, a .40s&w, and a .45acp.

Every one of them has it's strength and weaknesses. However, every one of them is, in my research, perfectly acceptable, and reliable as a man stopper. Including the 9!

As of right now I'm carrying a Glock 26. I had carried a Glock 27, but I prefer the lighter shooting 9mm over the .40 in small frame pistols.

imported post

I carry the 45 normally, 9mm when I have to rely on absolute concealment above all else, due to the ability to carry a smaller, thinner weapon. Although the Bersa 45 seems like it might take the place of my current 45 as my concealed and sometimes open carry weapon in the future.

Not saying that the 9mm can't do the job.....with the right HP ammo and the heavier the grain, the better, it does do a good job. But with the 9mm you must have HP ammo, or you end up over-penetrating and killing the kid or mother behind the bad guy you are trying to shoot. With a 45, with ball ammo, it's still possible, but not as likely.

The 45 has been proven time and time again to be an effective "manstopper". As effective as a handgun round can be, while still being controllable in a combat situation, and despite popular opinion, I do not feel that the 45ACP round causes that much recoil; in fact I have less perceived recoil with the 45 than the 9mm round.

There are multiple stories told about the 9mm round not stopping the threat immediately, but taking multiple hits and time to completely stop said threat. It has been proven before, and will be proven again that a slower, bigger bullet has a greater effect on a man-sized target than a smaller, faster bullet.

There is a reason for the military now looking to switch away from the 9mm round, despite losing NATO compatibility, to a heavier round such as the .45 or .40 for handguns that will be more effective against a determined attacker. I know they are looking somewhat seriously for a replacement for the .223 (a varmint round, BTW), but I don't happen to know what they are looking at to replace it. Perhaps the .308 that is already common on AR style rifles? Maybe they should just bring back the Thompson SMG...

imported post

compmanio365 wrote:

Although the Bersa 45 seems like it might take the place of my current 45 as my concealed and sometimes open carry weapon in the future.

Click to expand...

Could just be the one I saw at one particular gun store, but from my experience, Bersa's medium-large frame handguns have NICE triggers. Very smooth, somewhat light pull. I couldn't believe it was an affordable gun, since it was pretty much the nicest trigger I've ever pulled. They point pretty well, too. If you get it, I want to shoot a mag through it next time you come up this way

imported post

expvideo wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

Although the Bersa 45 seems like it might take the place of my current 45 as my concealed and sometimes open carry weapon in the future.

Click to expand...

Could just be the one I saw at one particular gun store, but from my experience, Bersa's medium-large frame handguns have NICE triggers. Very smooth, somewhat light pull. I couldn't believe it was an affordable gun, since it was pretty much the nicest trigger I've ever pulled. They point pretty well, too. If you get it, I want to shoot a mag through it next time you come up this way

Click to expand...

If anyone is interested in a 9mm with a VERY thin frame but still has high cap mag (15+1), try handling a Browning BDM. I have one and it shoots great.

imported post

expvideo wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

Although the Bersa 45 seems like it might take the place of my current 45 as my concealed and sometimes open carry weapon in the future.

Click to expand...

Could just be the one I saw at one particular gun store, but from my experience, Bersa's medium-large frame handguns have NICE triggers. Very smooth, somewhat light pull. I couldn't believe it was an affordable gun, since it was pretty much the nicest trigger I've ever pulled. They point pretty well, too. If you get it, I want to shoot a mag through it next time you come up this way

Click to expand...

Well, it won't be anytime soon, as we're looking at buying a house, so the gun budget just all but disappeared, but Mary's has the 45 for $300 out the door, so if I get a new pistol, that will be the one.

EDIT: Oh, and you have to reciprocate by letting me shoot your AK if I don't have one by then.... Those things are damn fun to shoot, I'm hooked on the idea of one now......

imported post

I have carried a .22 LR as a primary defensive weapon and felt safe with that choice.

I currently carry a .45 ACP or a .357 Mag, with a .22 LR as a BUG.

I don't care what you carry. Practice, Practice, Practice and work on shot placement.

That I do care about.



Tarzan

imported post

EXPO, i LMAO when i came across it.

If 10mm dried upI would switch to 45acp, .357 mag or 9mm+p+, 9x25, 9x23,40SW, .357Sig in that order in a semi auto.

If I went back to using a wheel gun it would be 10mm, .357mag, 44mag, 45ACP, 44spl/45LC and finally .38spl.

imported post

For what it is worth:

My opinion of a 9mm was tainted by what my buddy had told me of when he was in Fallujah, Iraq in November of 2004. He was engaged in house to house combat in Operation Phantom Furry. His team made entry into a house and he was the lead man. M16 was in hand and as soon as he entered the door he was so close to an insurgent that he couldn't get to the ready without muzzle thumping him, so instinctively he weapon enxchanged (extremely fast) to his 9mm Beretta and shot the guy six times in the chest. THE GUY DIDN'T STOP until my friend's buddy got him in the head (over my buddy's shoulder -can you say "loss of hearing") with his M16. I know that sounds kinda "John Wayne"... but that battle is said to be the bloodiest since Hua City, in Vietnam.

Granted a lot of those insurgents were piped up with Adreniline... Often our BG's are piped up on crack and the other crap infesting our society.