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Question about carrying open around a "school" function.

L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

skidmark wrote:
Glad to provide it. See them all at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/supreme_cases.html

In each case the court used or accepted without challenge the defininition of a firearm as quoted by the OP. Please do let me know if you find any error in this statement, and be sure to state exactly where you found the error.

Also see: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031700/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr447.11.htm

beginning at page 90 where the term "firearm" is defined by the BATFE.

Hope you are not disappointed with these citations.

stay safe.

skidmark
Click to expand...
Both links were worthless!

Furthermore.... your second link CONFIRMS the term explosion when shooting a projectile..



[Page 90]

Firearms.

A weapon, and all components and parts therefor, not over
.50 caliber which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include
BB and pellet guns, and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms
(including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or
similar type of ignition system) or firearms covered by Category I(a)
established to have been manufactured in or before 1898.
 
L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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USA
imported post

mobeewan wrote:
A "bang heard after shooting a gun" is the result of 2 things happening. One, the bullit going supersonic and two, the gasses going supersonic, both of which are breaking the sound barrier and creating a sonic boom (the "bang" that is heard). Ever shoot a .22 rifle using low velocity, subsonic rounds? I have. There is no "bang". It sounds like a pellet gun being fired. So the "bang" is not the sound of an "explosion" if it was you would hear it when firing a .22 with low velocity, subsonic rounds. Sokeless powder is a propellant, not an explosive, it burns at a specific rate, not all at once, creating the gasses that push the bullit out the barrel.
Click to expand...

Yes... and the reason you even get that is because gases built up during the rapid burning of the gun powder that caused the explosion. The sound does not magically appear.



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/propellent

pro·pel·lant also pro·pel·lent



1. Something, such as an explosive charge or a rocket fuel, that propels or provides thrust.

2. A compressed inert gas, such as a fluorocarbon, that acts as a vehicle for discharging the contents of an aerosol container.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propellant

Propellant

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A propellant is a material that is used to move an object by applying a motive force. This may or may not involve a chemical reaction. It may be a gas, liquid, plasma, or, before the chemical reaction, a solid. Common chemical propellants consist of a fuel, like gasoline, jet fuel and rocket fuel, and an oxidizer.

Contents

1 Aerosol sprays

2 Solid propellant rockets and projectiles

3 Liquid propellant rockets

4 Sources and references

5 See also



Aerosol sprays

In aerosol spray cans, the propellant is simply a pressurized vapour in equilibrium with its liquid. As some gas escapes to expel the payload, more liquid evaporates, maintaining an even pressure. (See aerosol spray propellant for more information.)

Solid propellant rockets and projectiles

In ballistics and pyrotechnics, a propellant is a generic name for explosives used for propelling projectiles from guns and other firearms, in order to distinguish them from the more violent explosives as used in shells and mines to produce a blasting effect. Some explosive substances can be used both as propellants and as bursters, as for example gunpowder, and some of the ingredients of a propellant may be similar, though differently proportioned and combined, to those of a " high explosive."

A propellant burns very rapidly but controllably, to produce thrust by gas pressure and thus accelerate a projectile or rocket. In this sense, common or well known propellants include, for firearms, artillery and solid propellant rockets:

Gun propellants, such as:

Gunpowder (black powder)

Nitrocellulose-based powders

Cordite

Smokeless powders

Composite propellants made from a solid oxidizer such as ammonium perchlorate or ammonium nitrate, a rubber such as HTPB or PBAN, and usually a powdered metal fuel such as aluminum.

Some amateur propellants use potassium nitrate, combined with sugar, epoxy, or other fuels / binder compounds.

Potassium perchlorate has been used as an oxidizer, paired with asphalt, epoxy, and other binders.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosion

Explosion

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An explosion is a sudden increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases.

The most common artificial explosives are chemical explosives, usually involving a rapid and violent oxidation reaction that produces large amounts of hot gas. Gunpowder was the first explosive to be discovered and put to use.





http://www.answers.com/topic/explosion?cat=biz-fin

explosion



A release of mechanical, chemical, or nuclear energy in a sudden and often violent manner with the generation of high temperature and usually with the release of gases.

A violent bursting as a result of internal pressure.

The loud, sharp sound made as a result of either of these actions.
 
L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

OK.. Both links were not worthless.

One was useless and the other link proved the opposite of your claim.
 
paramedic70002

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
skidmark wrote:
Glad to provide it. See them all at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/supreme_cases.html

In each case the court used or accepted without challenge the defininition of a firearm as quoted by the OP. Please do let me know if you find any error in this statement, and be sure to state exactly where you found the error.

Also see: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031700/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr447.11.htm

beginning at page 90 where the term "firearm" is defined by the BATFE.

Hope you are not disappointed with these citations.

stay safe.

skidmark
Click to expand...
Both links were worthless!

Furthermore.... your second link CONFIRMS the term explosion when shooting a projectile..



[Page 90]

Firearms.

A weapon, and all components and parts therefor, not over
.50 caliber which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include
BB and pellet guns, and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms
(including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or
similar type of ignition system) or firearms covered by Category I(a)
established to have been manufactured in or before 1898.
Click to expand...
So I can carry a muzzleloader like the Ruger Old Army into a school?

Dang I wish I hadn't sold mine!
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.
Click to expand...
Objection: Relevance?
 
H

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

a question about the 1000 ft rule.

Say I live within a 1000 ft of a school. does that restict me from OC'ing in my parking lot of my complex? or due to the statute stipulating "fear" does the statue not apply, such as walking by the school, ect.
 
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
imported post

hsmith wrote:
a question about the 1000 ft rule.

Say I live within a 1000 ft of a school. does that restict me from OC'ing in my parking lot of my complex? or due to the statute stipulating "fear" does the statue not apply, such as walking by the school, ect.
Click to expand...

The Gun Free School Zone Act was ruled unconstitutional. Some of the objections to it were based on exactly the circumstances you describe.

You can walk, skip, hop, jump rope, waltz with your sweetie, take the grabage out to the dumpster, or just sit in your lawn chair while on the property of your apartmentcomplex, while OCing. After you do any pof those things that make you happy, you can go for a walk past the school, even when it is "in session" and school kids are out on the playground, while OCing.

You might get so "strange looks" from various and sundry folks, but even if the call the cops you have committed no crime.

Let's remember the difference between brandishing and merely OCing. Brandishing is the display of a weapon - display needs some act to call the attention of another to the weapon, and that act cannot be the mere wearing of a weapon in a manner that is not prohibitted. Soccer mommies and GFWs need to just get used to it, unless your actions are clearly threatening (intentionally calling attention to the fact that you are armed so as to induce fear in the observer, as opposed to merely being observed to be armed).

I need an excuse to be in the Va Beach area - my Lady Friend & I have a restaraunt there we like to go to. Invite us down for an afternoon of OClawnchair sitting, then we'll go to The Mayflower Cafe for dinner.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
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