• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Tired of inaction... any suggestions?

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

I have gone to school in thiscollege town for nearly 2 years now, and I have seldom OC'd. As many of you know, I was arrested and charged (Man arrested for open carry thread under Alabama forum) for OCing this summer, and am still a little "gun shy" about it.

Well, I'm tired of it. This winter has proven to be an extension of summer (it's 78 degrees outside right now), and it's just too hot to CC all the time when I know OC is perfectly legal.

When I get off work tonight around 9, I am going to draft a letter to the police chief and the Sheriff to find out what their respective departments' stances are on peacable open carry. Do any of you have any suggestions as to what I might need to include? I want to be as polite and non-confrontational as possible, but I also want to make it clear that I will not be pushed around by police harrassment and bullying. I am going to cite some Alabama laws and AG opinions to back up my assertions of its legality.

(I am going to post this in the Alabama forum as well, however, I feel that I can get good advice from people in other states on this too)
 

Legba

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
1,881
Location
, ,
imported post

Why "ask" them anything? State unequivocally that open carry is not illegal, ergo, it is legal, and you will thank them to respect your rights and to instruct their respective personnel to do the same. Just a thought.

-ljp
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

Agreed. Just do it.

And get some friends and/or like-minded neighbors to join you in educating the damn arrogant local boy cops.


If you still get hassled, take the story to the news media and make it public.Expose thebastards to public ridicule and make them explain/defend their harrassment of law-abiding citizens.

-- John D.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

cloudcroft wrote:
SNIP Expose thebastards to public ridicule and make them explain/defend their harrassment of law-abiding citizens.

-- John D.
Now, THIS could work in Alabama, perhaps.
 

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

Sgt. Scarbrough, Chief Everage, and the Troy Police Department,



My name is Victor Mathis. I am a life-long resident of Covington County, and spend a lot of time in Troy for various reasons. I have a few concerns I would like to discuss with you involving the peaceable and legal carry of firearms for self-defense in this city, particularly the standard police procedure involving a citizen who is openly carrying a firearm.



As I am sure you know, the “Code of Alabama 1975” (http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/coatoc.htm) does not expressly prohibit the peaceable open carry of firearms in public. Without such a prohibition, carrying in such a manner, with or without a permit, is legal. I understand that if you were to enter a vehicle, you would need a concealed pistol license, but a citizen on foot in the state of Alabama may legally carry a handgun openly, unless expressly prohibited by certain establishments, or upon entering an establishment, the citizen is asked to disarm or leave. This is my, and my attorney’s, understanding of this issue in this State.



There also exists an Alabama Attorney General’s opinion issued by Attorney General Graddick in 1984 (viewable at http://www.ago.state.al.us/oldopinions/8400205.pdf), which confirms that Alabama law does not prohibit openly carrying firearms in a peaceable manner.



While I am personally a concealed pistol license holder, for personal reasons, I have sometimes found it necessary to carry my pistol openly. These reasons may include a range of things from comfort to convenience. I’m sure you understand how it could be uncomfortable to tryto conceal a 2 pound .45 caliber pistol in the middle of July in Alabama. Unfortunately, it has come to my attention (through personal experience as well as research) that in the past, police have not responded well to citizens peaceably carrying firearms in plain view in this great state. Often there is a gross overreaction by police officers (as was my experience), which ultimately may lead to an unlawful arrest. It is my hope that the Troy Police Department does not handle such a situation in this manner. While I fully understand the need to check out anyone with a gun in public, if the person is behaving in a peaceful and otherwise lawful manner, there is no need for police officers to escalate the situation.



While you, or any of the officers on the police force in Troy may have your own opinions about open carry, I am simply inquiring as to the department’s official stance on this issue, and how any calls may be handled.



I intend to post our correspondence on an online discussion forum known as Open Carry dot Org (http://www.opencarry.com). I hope that you will take some time to look over this website if this issue interests you. My username is “vmathis12019” on this website, and any posts made by any other users using any other usernames may not necessarily share in my views or opinions about anything.



I am truly thankful for your time, and look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. I would also be happy to meet with you in person to further discuss this issue. You may reach me at the return email address in this message.



Sincerely,

Victor Mathis



This is the letter I just drafted. I'm exhausted from work, and listening to bluegrass music, so I may have trailed off a little, but I think it gets my point across. Again, I tried to sound as polite and sincere as possible, but I think I made it quite evident that I was not ignorant of the laws. I fully intend to post any replies I recieve from Sgt. Benny Scarbrough, the Public Information Officer with the Department.



Believe it or not, I could not find an email address for Sheriff Thomas. I will most likely drop this letter, with the obvious adjustments,off at the SD Monday. I would schedule a meeting face to face, but work is looking rough this week.

 

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

nofoa wrote:
I especially like the part about other people not sharing your views. This forum is made up of many characters, and views.

:D
Oh yeah, that was the first thing I thought about when I wrote that I'd be posting it on here. There are a few characters whose views/opinions I quite frankly don't want misinterpreted as my own....lol
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

I appreciate your pro-active position. It will be very interesting if/how the Sheriff responds to your inquiry. Normally, I don't see the benefit of such as this in advance of any real need but you have apparently had confrontations with his department. Would you not have made a better case by including these and asking for corrective action?
Yata hey
 

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
I appreciate your pro-active position. It will be very interesting if/how the Sheriff responds to your inquiry. Normally, I don't see the benefit of such as this in advance of any real need but you have apparently had confrontations with his department. Would you not have made a better case by including these and asking for corrective action?
Yata hey

It was actually not this department that I have had problems with. It was a department in my home county. While I "live" in Troy (Pike County), my official residence is in Covington County because of my student status. I have had no problems with this department because, as I have stated, I haven't OC'd here yet.

I have been held at gunpoint, thrown to the ground, and arrested/charged with a crime before because of this, and I don't want it happening again. This letter is what I would call a preventative strike. Idon't want to have to prove myself right through lawyers again. I want the chief and sheriff to admit to me that it's right. That's why I'm doing it in advance.

My request for "corrective action" with the problem department is being handled by my attorney.
 

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

color of law wrote:
I would cite your appeals case and I would CC your letter to county officials and the local paper.

As for the appeals case, I don't want to get too technical with it, as police officers are not lawyers. The Code and AG opinion should suffice, and if they are challenged, I will ask them to provide a statute/case that proves me wrong.

I think I am going to wait on my response from Sgt. Scarbrough of the city PD before I mail the letter to the sheriff. When I do though, I think I am going to send it to the Troy Messenger as well.
 

Comp-tech

State Researcher
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
934
Location
, Alabama, USA
imported post

vmathis12019 wrote:
color of law wrote:
I would cite your appeals case and I would CC your letter to county officials and the local paper.

As for the appeals case, I don't want to get too technical with it, as police officers are not lawyers. The Code and AG opinion should suffice, and if they are challenged, I will ask them to provide a statute/case that proves me wrong.
I would almost bet that they spout off sec 52 and tell you that the AG opinion is just that, an opinion....or something to that effect. I wonder if this is not what they are taught at the "academy" since it seems to go deeper than just one department/area....this seems to be the statewide opinion of LEOs.

I think I am going to wait on my response from Sgt. Scarbrough of the city PD before I mail the letter to the sheriff. When I do though, I think I am going to send it to the Troy Messenger as well.
 

vmathis12019

State Researcher
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
544
Location
Troy, Alabama, USA
imported post

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. It's 10:47 AM, and I sent the email to the city PD Saturday night, so I do not expect a reply until today or later this week, as the department is closed on the weekends. Still no reply, but as soon as I get the email, I will post it. Hopefully it will be a positive response. If not, my next move will be to contact the newspaper...
 

imperialism2024

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,047
Location
Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

78 degrees? After I finish scraping the 3 inches of ice off of my car, maybe I'll make a trip down there...

Actually I do plan on travelling down to Georgia for a few days next month. I obviously won't be OCing there, but as I understand it, I can OC without a license in Alabama as long as I'm not in a car (like here in PA).
 

dng

State Researcher
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
1,290
Location
, , USA
imported post

vmathis12019 wrote:
I When I get off work tonight around 9, I am going to draft a letter to the police chief and the Sheriff to find out what their respective departments' stances are on peacable open carry.
LEO's are not lawyers. Do NOT ask their opinion, because they will give you just that; their opinion. It is their job to uphold the law, not interpret it. I do not believe it is fair to ask them to play the part of a lawyer, when it is not what they are trained for. Consult a lawyer if needed, but do not base your actions on a LEO's opinion. OC is legal, and you want to OC,so practice those rights.
 

Comp-tech

State Researcher
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
934
Location
, Alabama, USA
imported post

dngreer wrote:
vmathis12019 wrote:
I When I get off work tonight around 9, I am going to draft a letter to the police chief and the Sheriff to find out what their respective departments' stances are on peacable open carry.
LEO's are not lawyers. Do NOT ask their opinion, because they will give you just that; their opinion. It is their job to uphold the law, not interpret it. I do not believe it is fair to ask them to play the part of a lawyer, when it is not what they are trained for. Consult a lawyer if needed, but do not base your actions on a LEO's opinion. OC is legal, and you want to OC,so practice those rights.
No offense intended dngreer but, down here, your advice would lead to being put face down, your weapon taken, and being arrested.....as vmathis has already experienced first hand.
 

acrimsontide

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
325
Location
, ,
imported post

Comp-tech wrote:
dngreer wrote:
vmathis12019 wrote:
I When I get off work tonight around 9, I am going to draft a letter to the police chief and the Sheriff to find out what their respective departments' stances are on peacable open carry.
LEO's are not lawyers. Do NOT ask their opinion, because they will give you just that; their opinion. It is their job to uphold the law, not interpret it. I do not believe it is fair to ask them to play the part of a lawyer, when it is not what they are trained for. Consult a lawyer if needed, but do not base your actions on a LEO's opinion. OC is legal, and you want to OC,so practice those rights.
No offense intended dngreer but, down here, your advice would lead to being put face down, your weapon taken, and being arrested.....as vmathis has already experienced first hand.

As Comp-Tech stated, OC is not a good idea here in Alabama. Although there is a favorable AG's "opinion" on OC, Alabama LEOs will stop and arrest you as they did vmathis. CC is legal WITH a CC license and Alabama has reciprocity with several states.PA is not on Alabama's reciprocity list. I would advise against OC in Alabama!!!!!!

This is the link to the list of states with which Alabama has CONCEALED CARRY reciprocity. http://www.ago.state.al.us/ag_items.cfm?Issue=64
 

DreQo

State Researcher
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
2,350
Location
Minnesota
imported post

I would FedEx a copy of it to the Chief, and give special instructions to FedEx that it must meet the Chief's hands and be signed off by him. Then you'll have confirmation that he has indeed received it.
 
Top