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Thread: Everett Events Center

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    I was just reading a post from a member about no fire arms allowed in the Everett
    Events Center. I went to there web site and it say no fire arms twice. Is this legal?
    We all know the restrictions (Jails, court rooms, post offices, air ports, schools and taverns ETC.)
    But nowhere it says event centers. Am I wrong? Will I be arrest if I concealed carry. Of course it will be concealed and I have a CCP. But if I bend the wrong way and some one sees my gun what will happen to me? Thanks

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    They can ask you to leave. If you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing. This is the same question about malls, colleges, and private businesses. Its not illegal to possess a weapon in public places. But a private business owner can refuse service to anyone for any reason. That is his right.

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    nofoa wrote:
    They can ask you to leave. If you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing. This is the same question about malls, colleges, and private businesses. Its not illegal to possess a weapon in public places. But a private business owner can refuse service to anyone for any reason. That is his right.
    Thats what I thought, Then why the no firearms in the rules? Who are they tring to fool? You did mention colleges is that the same as a public school K 12 grades.

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    With a CWP you can legally carry on school grounds if you are dropping off or picking up a child. Anyone can throw up a no weapons allowed sign. It doesn't mean you'll get arrested for carrying on their property. Like nofoa said, if they find out and they ask you to leave and you don't they can charge you with tresspassing. In Washington state a sign holds no legal weight, unless it's a specific area that you aren't allowed to carry in like bars, and restricted areas of jails, courthouses and the such.

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    +1 G27

    To expand more on college carry.

    "(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:"


    Wikipedia has this to say on secondary education

    As part of education in the United States, secondary education comprises grades 5,6, 7, 8, or 9 through 12. This depends on the school district and how it is comprised. 9th-12th grade is the most common grade structure for high school.

    Or

    Secondary school is a term used to describe an institution where the final stage of compulsory schooling, known as secondary education, takes place.

    In other countries secondary education is used to refer to college and technical schools.

    This topic has been discussed before. Schools don't want guns on campus and they will expell you if your found with one. It is not however illegal. So concealed carry is the only way to go.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ington+college



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    One of my buddies was security at that Events Center. They pat down sometimes depending on the event. Some of those concerts can get rowdy. If they don't want guns in the building thats their choice, but they also take responsiblity if someone does get in with one and shoots at unarmed people. They had some fights break out there before. Of course their security is not armed, so its not going to do much if someone really wanted in and wanted to kill, like the Omaha Shooter.

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    phone guy wrote:
    I was just reading a post from a member about no fire arms allowed in the Everett
    Events Center. I went to there web site and it say no fire arms twice. Is this legal?
    We all know the restrictions (Jails, court rooms, post offices, air ports, schools and taverns ETC.)
    But nowhere it says event centers. Am I wrong? Will I be arrest if I concealed carry. Of course it will be concealed and I have a CCP. But if I bend the wrong way and some one sees my gun what will happen to me? Thanks
    I think the big question here is who operates the center? If it is operated by the city of Everett then they have no right at all to ask you to leave or to restrict you. If it is a private center operated by a non-municipality then they can, as has been previously stated, do whatever they want.

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    I visited the site of the Everett events center. It is owned by a municipal corporation. It is managed by a private corporation. I don't know which one "operates" it; that is what will determine if it can legally ban guns.

    I sent this message, via their website:

    Hi,

    I have a quick question concerning the operation of the Everett Events center.

    In the Revised Code of Washington there are specific rules and exceptions to rules concerning the banning of firearms in convention centers and stadiums, particularly concerned with whether a corporation operating one can do so or not.

    If you could please answer this question: Is the Everett events center operated by a city, a county ,or other municipal corporation? (if so, which one?)

    I see on the website that it is managed by a third party, but I want to know if that is synonymous with operated by. And, more specifically, what the role of the board is if it is not to operate the facility while the third party manages the events, etc?

    Thanks!



    I was very careful in the way I crafted the explanation of the desire to know. To the casual reader who is unfamiliar with gun laws, it will appear as though a corporation can't ban a gun while a city/county can. Hopefully, this will cause them to answer that it is, in fact, operated by the city corporation. If anyone wants, they would then have a great case to challenge the ban. I have never been to Everett, nor do I really care much, but thought it was interesting to find out. I will post the reply when I recieve it.

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    heresolong wrote:
    phone guy wrote:
    I was just reading a post from a member about no fire arms allowed in the Everett
    Events Center. I went to there web site and it say no fire arms twice. Is this legal?
    We all know the restrictions (Jails, court rooms, post offices, air ports, schools and taverns ETC.)
    But nowhere it says event centers. Am I wrong? Will I be arrest if I concealed carry. Of course it will be concealed and I have a CCP. But if I bend the wrong way and some one sees my gun what will happen to me? Thanks
    I think the big question here is who operates the center? If it is operated by the city of Everett then they have no right at all to ask you to leave or to restrict you. If it is a private center operated by a non-municipality then they can, as has been previously stated, do whatever they want.
    It is operated by a subsidiary of Comcast that deals in arena/coliseum management therefore they are allowed to ban firearms.

    Code:
    they also take responsiblity if someone does get in with one and shoots at unarmed people.
    I happen to know that this is BS. First off their is no law that creates a liability for them, second I have talked to thier legal dept on an issue and were told that they are not liable for anything that goes on inside because the company holding the event carries liability insurance for negligences that happen.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Code:
    they also take responsiblity if someone does get in with one and shoots at unarmed people.
    I happen to know that this is BS. First off their is no law that creates a liability for them, second I have talked to thier legal dept on an issue and were told that they are not liable for anything that goes on inside because the company holding the event carries liability insurance for negligences that happen.

    Liability insurance covers their ass if they get sued and lose. It does not mean that they pay everyone who was around when a shooting happened unless they were negligent/reckless (depending on many many factors)in causing the harm. There is simply no liability for an injury that happens on your property that is no fault of yours.

    Therefore, without the gun free zones liability act (a pie-high dream in the sky), there would not be liability unless there was the ommission of an act/duty to the level of negligence/recklessness. An example could be something likean employee, with knowledge of management or in accordance with company policy, allowing gangs to enter with firearms for a $50 dollar fee while having everyone else go through metal detectors. Something that is off the wall likely to cause/permit a problem.

    Generally, you are only liable to a customer/vistor when you breach a DUTY. They have no DUTY to protect you from shooters. Absent metal detectors, they have not even pretended to provide this duty. Therefore, without an act in the legislature (or amajor shift ofthe courts)creating a new duty, there is simply no liability for creating a victim rich zone. (This could be different if they were failing to properly enforce a ban they claim to actually enforce vis-a-vis metal detectors, etc... that is only speculative and I know of no case law to support it, nor am I a lawyer.)


    edited: some grammatical errors

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    Very well said Josh.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    The Everett Events center is WHOLLY OWNED by the CITY OF EVERETT. It is OPERATED by a private company under contract to the city. It it not LEASED to this company, it is only MANAGED AND OPERATEDby them.

    I beleive that in this case, State Pre-Emption should apply along with the stadium rule... they can ban firearms with the EXCEPTION of LE and CPL holders.

    I'm getting tired of cities finding ways AROUND pre-emption.

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    Great letter Josh!

    Only thing I would've changed would be to leave out the reference to firearms or bans of firearms entirely. The question we have is "is it operated by the city, county or municipal entity?" so once we get that answered, we then know the answer if they can ban legally carried firearms.

    By leaving out reference to firearms, you can sometimes get a much more open and cordial response and still get the sameinformation you were looking for... sometimes more. The general public and especially public officials will tend to 'pucker-up' and start thinking about the legal consequences of their statements when they see the word firearms.

    Just something to think about for the next time you want to put forth some much-appreciated effort to the OC/CC cause.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

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    I was just going to ask the question without the mention of firearms, but then I figured the receptionist would just fire back a quick answer that yes we operate it or no we don't.

    I carefully worded it to hopefully construe an opposite answer. (IE: the implication that only a city could ban firearms and as a corporation they can't.)

    This way, knowing it is a policy issue, I am hoping the question will get handed to the manager before being answered. Then, if all goes as hoped for,the manager will be on record claiming they do not operate it.We can then fire back another email showing that because they acknowledge that it is operated by a municipal corporation, that in fact, state preemption applies and they need to amend the rules.

    In general though, I agree, when asking it is better not to specify the why, but here, I am under the impression the answer would be less than useful if they didn't at least feel there was a legitimate need for an answer based on policy. At this point, they may think I am a brady campaigner concerned that they aren't set up like the Mariners!

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    The Everett Events center is WHOLLY OWNED by the CITY OF EVERETT. It is OPERATED by a private company under contract to the city. It it not LEASED to this company, it is only MANAGED AND OPERATEDby them.

    I beleive that in this case, State Pre-Emption should apply along with the stadium rule... they can ban firearms with the EXCEPTION of LE and CPL holders.

    I'm getting tired of cities finding ways AROUND pre-emption.
    To clarify even further, according to the website it is only managed by the private company, not operated. The law specifically says "operated by" for state preemption. The city is operating this under the Everett Public Facilities District, a municipal corporation. The "management" of this facility is by a private company for the city. It is not, as stated above, leased out to someone else but just managed by them. So who lives in Everett and is going to write a letter to the DA?

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    I already know the answer to this. I asked when they first opened and was told that Global Spectrum is in charge of the day to day operations of the events center. I wish I had kept the reply but that was many BSOD's and a few formats ago.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060;

    This seems pretty clear to me. If it is owned by the city, they operate it. They may have a subcontractor, but it is still thiers. They cannot stop anyone who has a cpl from carrying.

    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?

    Alan

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    Misguided Child wrote:
    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?



    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms — Penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.


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    Is the Everett Events Center an indoor venue?

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    nofoa wrote:
    Is the Everett Events Center an indoor venue?
    Yes

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    Misguided Child wrote:
    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060;

    This seems pretty clear to me. If it is owned by the city, they operate it. They may have a subcontractor, but it is still thiers. They cannot stop anyone who has a cpl from carrying.

    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?

    Alan
    It is owned by them but the day to day operations and management are by Global Spectrum. That is how they get around the RCW, which in my opinion is crap.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    Misguided Child wrote:
    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?
    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms — Penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.
    Outdoors - bad,indoors - good? Sheesh.

    For my enlightenment - does WA have an RKBA association?

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    We are trying to get one formed but it is a slow process so far.

    http://nwcdl.org
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    Misguided Child wrote:
    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?



    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms — Penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.
    RCW 70.108.150 was written for the Gorge site.

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    Misguided Child wrote:
    But I seem to remember reading that it was illegal to carry in a concert. Anybody know where that might be written?
    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms — Penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.
    This is a VERY specific law. It is designed to affect the gorge. Read the definitions clearly. While it is possible for it to affect some other venue, it is highly unlikely. This was written as a response to concerts like summer jam.

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