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Encounter at 7-11

Xeni

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
243
Location
Dumfries, Virginia, USA
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Some background first. Wearing jeans and a nice pullover vneck shirt. G23 in a Blackhawk holster on my hip. Wife stayed in car because it was cold and she loves the seat warmer.

Sat evening we were on the way home and I wanted to stop by 7-11 to pick up a Big Gulp and maybe a samich. Pulled into the 7-11 parking lot and noticed a marked cruiser. Thought nothing of it and parked my vehicle. Went inside and straight to the BG machine. Next to it was a uniformed PWC police officer. Started filling up my BG and he went to the counter to pay for his sammich. Collected mine. Turned around and saw him walking towards me. He said:

Excuse me, can I ask if your law enforcement?

Nope, just a civilian.

Then, why are your carrying a handgun?

Mostly for self defense.

Why do you need one?

Because I live in Prince William County.

Well, how do I know you're not gonna pop off any rounds?

I won't. But, I don't know if your gonna pop off rounds either.

I won't, I've gone through background checks to wear this uniform and badge.

...

Can I see your ID?

Huh?

Can I see your ID and make sure your not a felon?

No.

Don't you want to help out law enforcement and help me to verify that your not wanted or your a felon?

No. I don't consent to a search nor will I show you my ID.

Why do you have an issue with me seeing your ID?

Because, I'm not required by law to show you and I don't consent to a search. I'm not doing anything wrong or illegal.

If your not doing anything wrong, you shouldn't have a problem letting me see your ID. Your already scaring people by openly carrying a pistol in public.

I don't consent. Thanks tho and have a good night.

<walked over to counter and paid for my drink and samiich. Left 7-11 and went towards my car. Officer followed me out and wrote down my license plate numbers. I waved to the officer, started my engine and left.>

Thoughts on how this went?

Even critisisms (of myself) are welcome.

Thanks,

-X
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
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I think you handled it perfectly. You were polite, you made your point, but you didn't make a huge issue of it. You wished him a good evening and went about your business. You didn't hassle him with your knowledge.

I can't see any points to criticize (except your spelling, and I'm trying not to be a spelling/grammar nazi <grin>).
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
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No criticisms! I suggest someone look into the circumstances of the cop running your plates. The conversation had nothing to do with your automobile operation but was only a backdoor ID check that may not even be correct.

If the plate check led to a crime, mightn't the evidence be fruit of a poisoned tree?
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Unless he is an active member of the armed services, he is a "civilian" too.

Sounds like you did fine.
 

vt357

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
490
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
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I think you did great. I only have one small complaint that you might need an electron microscope to see as it is so small. Next time instead of saying "just a Civilian," instead say "just a Citizen." The word civilian makes it sound like he is better than you just because he is in law enforcement. But this critique is coming from someone typing on a keyboard - I hope to be as assertive while staying as polite as you were if I encounter a similar situation.
 

Xeni

Regular Member
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Sep 12, 2007
Messages
243
Location
Dumfries, Virginia, USA
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Yup, I can see the point in that. Unfortunatly with theline of workthat I do I'm used to hearing the word Civilian tossed around and got out of practice of saying, Citizen.

I will admit though when I left, I couldn't help feeling like I was doing something wrong or illegal when I knew I wasn't. I think it's the point he brought up of, if your not doing anything wrong - show me your ID. I guess it's just years of saying yes without a second thought.
 

ufcfanvt

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
431
Location
NoVA, Virginia, USA
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I agree w/ saying citizen instead. I would have also taken his badge #, cruiser # and name of his CO, AFTER he decided to press for my ID and doing the back-door ID check w/ the license plate.

The cop went WAY over the line.
 

vrwmiller

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
1,043
Location
Virginia, USA
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I think it was handled well, personally. I might be inclined to write Chief Charlie Deane (if it was indeed, Prince William County) and express concern over the encounter.
 

TEX1N

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
842
Location
Northern VA, Virginia, USA
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ufcfanvt wrote:
I agree w/ saying citizen instead. I would have also taken his badge #, cruiser # and name of his CO, AFTER he decided to press for my ID and doing the back-door ID check w/ the license plate.

The cop went WAY over the line.
I would tend to argue that going "WAY over the line" is when the officer illegally detains you, illegally disarms you, and/or illegally arrests you. This officer did none of those things, and because of the professional way that Xeni handled the situation, the officer might not even bother to question the next OC'er that he comes across.
 

Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
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Well Done, I too agree with the Citizen comment.. and have one more suggestion for ALL of us..

It's not ..Just a Citizen...

it is ...I AM a Citizen...

The words just a citizen implies that we are somewhat less than they...



JMHO
 

SicSemperTyrannis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
537
Location
Henrico County ,
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You did great.

The officer was within his rights to ask you to voluntarily show ID, and you were within yours to refuse. Alls well that ends well.

Sure, the officer writing down your license plate leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But still, this is about as good as it gets - no one violated any rule or law or policy, you stood up for yourself, and the officer knew what limitations he was under. Call the Chief if you really want for clarification, but lets save "way over the line" talk for times when, well, someone actually goes way over the line!

We want to be known for our clear-headedness and rationality... and your actionswent a long way in that regard!
 

Thors_Mitersaw

Regular Member
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Jul 17, 2006
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299
Location
, ,
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hsmith wrote:
you should have been demanding his information! Clearly out of line on his part kudos to you.

Yes I would definetly have asked for his badge number and name.
 

Mainsail

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Apr 24, 2007
Messages
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Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
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Wow, police mind games- and he was very very good at them too. Good job on standing your ground. The only thing I might have done differently is ask "Are you detaining me?"

Can I see your ID?

Huh?

Can I see your ID and make sure your not a felon?

No.


LOL! That's fantastic!
 

ScottNH

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
140
Location
Live Free or Die, ,
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I'm very impressed with your ability to keep the situation from escalating. Congratulations. I hope I could be as calm and polite in a similar situation.

As far as the license plate goes, probably not a lot different than a police officer "running" the plate of random cars he sees on the road, which I assume they do from time to time.

Good job.
 

xd.40

Regular Member
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Apr 28, 2007
Messages
399
Location
Manassas, Virginia, USA
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I agree with the license plate thing. He is well within his right to write down your plate number, but what he does WITH that information is where I might take issue with. (i.e. harassing you next time he saw you, or, heaven forbid, showing up on your door step)
 

TEX1N

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
842
Location
Northern VA, Virginia, USA
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ScottNH wrote:
I'm very impressed with your ability to keep the situation from escalating. Congratulations. I hope I could be as calm and polite in a similar situation.

As far as the license plate goes, probably not a lot different than a police officer "running" the plate of random cars he sees on the road, which I assume they do from time to time.

Good job.
They do. On the ride-alongs that I've been on, the officers would run plate #'s for many different reasons, and boredom seemed to be one of the main reasons.
 

vrwmiller

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
1,043
Location
Virginia, USA
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TEX1N wrote:
ScottNH wrote:
I'm very impressed with your ability to keep the situation from escalating. Congratulations. I hope I could be as calm and polite in a similar situation.

As far as the license plate goes, probably not a lot different than a police officer "running" the plate of random cars he sees on the road, which I assume they do from time to time.

Good job.
They do. On the ride-alongs that I've been on, the officers would run plate #'s for many different reasons, and boredom seemed to be one of the main reasons.
This may be an incorrect belief, but I had once heard that it was unlawful for LEO to run a driver's plate unless they were suspected in a crime or had been observed violating a driving law. Is this a correct assumption?
 
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