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Thread: Fairfax Police Roll Out High-Tech Fingerprint System

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    How many OC'ers do you think will be asked to provide a fingerprint? Any idea which database the will be using? I wonder if I would be in it, or if they will have to go the federal databases for me? Might be fun to see how they handle all the flags on my fingerprints - none of which could cause me any problems.

    http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=600&sid=1311113

    A $14 million federal homeland security grant in 2005 allowed Fairfax police to purchase 50 units of a new portable Automated Fingerprint Identification System. The tool can scan two index fingers and search for a match among the approximately 1 million fingerprints on file in northern Virginia and the District of Columbia, Fairfax Lt. John V. Byrd said. A match will come back in about 30 seconds, often with a photograph, if a person's fingerprints are on file.

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    I read an article earlier that also stated Fairfax will be sharing their unit with other counties in Northern VA. Allegedly, they have purchased these devices for about $2200 each. The unit also has the capability of taking a photograph and also comparing those against a database.

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    Anyone who asks for my fingerprint can kiss my ass and s*** ** *****!! If they want my fingerprints, they can arrest me and face a wronful arrest law suit.

    I'm telling you, folks....we're seeing the harm that this war on terror,mixed with Washington spending,is doing to our liberties.

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    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    I saw this article a few days ago on the WTOP web site and left a comment to the effect that people don't need to give up their rights if they're told to by the police and a link to the flexyourrights.com web site.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This technology has been in use in the UK for around a year now. Police can fingerprint people whom they've "traffic" stopped to see if a match comes up right on the spot. I am not at liberty to divulge too much information about this because I work for the company (and the project) that supplies the software for these systems, as well as all of the other software the UK uses in their fingerprint identification systems.

    Believe me, we do not want what is done in the UK to be done here in the US.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Anyone here see Gattica?

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    just a guy, with a Glock wrote:
    How many oc'er do I think will be asked to provide a fingerprint ?

    Who cares ?

    The answer should always be the same. NO !

    I'm I being detained ?

    If yes. On what reasonable articulable suspicion ?

    "Well we were called because you scared a few folks (nut jobs) by openly carrying a firearm."

    Your response should be:

    The Supreme Court has ruled unanimouslyin Florida v. J.L. (no. 98-1993) (2000) that this doesn't establish reasonable articulable suspension, thus as a matter of law I'm free togo. If not I would like to call and have a police supervisor brought down here (start dialing) and call my attorney. You are the one in violation of the law not me.
    So what?!! People don't know their rights and cops don't know/don't care half the time. People will consent to fingerprinting the same way they consent to unlawful searches. And cops will force them to give their fingerprints the same way they force unlawful searches.


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    ama-gi wrote:
    SNIP And cops will force them to give their fingerprints the same way they force unlawful searches.
    +1


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Can't wait to see the news story: "person tasered for not giving fingerprints, charged with resisting arrest, all charges dropped."


    --edit--

    And on the video, you'll see all the comments from the Hitler Youth: "If the police tell you to do something, DO IT WITHOUT QUESTION. He deserved it, the cop should've shot 'em"

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    Lets not forget the whole court of law side of things. The courts rule this on the use of thenewfigerprinting machines, the courts rule that on the new fingerprinting machines.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    ama-gi wrote:
    Can't wait to see the news story: "person tasered for not giving fingerprints, charged with resisting arrest, all charges dropped."
    Then 2 months later: "Officer Taserman promoted."

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    ama-gi wrote:
    Can't wait to see the news story: "person tasered for not giving fingerprints, charged with resisting arrest, all charges dropped."
    Then 2 months later: "Officer Taserman promoted."
    And we'll see LEO 299's smiling mug on the front page of the local section

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Anyone who asks for my fingerprint can kiss my ass and s*** ** *****!! If they want my fingerprints, they can arrest me and face a wronful arrest law suit. I'm telling you, folks....we're seeing the harm that this war on terror, mixed with Washington spending, is doing to our liberties.
    That pretty much sums it up...but just think how handy that would be for private firearm sales. You could have rent-a-nazi companies that would rent the machines for 12 hours. Go buy the gun and get the buyers and sellers prints.

    You could even have ceremonies.:what:

    Do you sheep seller, agree to sell and to warrant this firearm, to be honestly owned and free from encumbrances, till death do you part.:celebrate

    Do you sheep buyer, agree that you are you and no one else, to love honor and obey all the laws of the Commonwealth

    Why....anyone with an IQ over 60 can see the value of the things!



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I would be in it, or if they will have to go the federal databases for me? Might be fun to see how they handle all the flags on my fingerprints - none of which could cause me any problems.
    I don't know about you but I used to get stuck in the 48 hour Q when buying a gun because the Feds wouldn't respond to the request.

    The next morning I'd always get the same stupid question..."Did you get a ticket?"

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    ama-gi wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    ama-gi wrote:
    Can't wait to see the news story: "person tasered for not giving fingerprints, charged with resisting arrest, all charges dropped."
    Then 2 months later: "Officer Taserman promoted."
    And we'll see LEO 299's smiling mug on the front page of the local section
    Sweet!!! 15 more minutes of fame!!!

    I do not think that Fairfax is going to go around demanding people to be scanned. The purpose is more likely to be used during justified stops dealing with people suspected of being wanted, having no ID, and having fake ID cards.

    We will probably see some type of criteria soon as to when they will be used.

    What good are these units if the use is completely voluntary all the time.

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    The other bothersome thing about this story is that the money for this gadget comes from the feds.

    The federal government should not be sticking its nose into local law enforcement like this, but no one says anything because of the War on Everything.

    There was a case in the news a few monthsback about a guy who allegedly videotaped an act of vandalism against a city cop car in California somewhere, but he claimed that he was a journalist and didn't have to turn over his tape. Under state law he was in the rights, but because the police department accepted money from the federal government for its equipment, the guy was tried and convicted in a federal court! I can't remember the case or where I saw it, I'll post it if I can find it.

    But the bottom line was that if your local PD takes fed money, they are part of that much larger dragon. And since 911 DHS has been showering money on various state and local agencies.

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    Did the Govt say what Fairfax had to buy?? Or did they buy the units on their own?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I do not think that Fairfax is going to go around demanding people to be scanned. The purpose is more likely to be used during justified stops dealing with people suspected of being wanted, having no ID, and having fake ID cards.
    What about people like us who Open Carry and are stopped in what the officer THINKS is a justified stop, and then refuse to show ID? Are we going to be tased for not following what the cop was taught was "procedure?"

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Did the Govt say what Fairfax had to buy?? Or did they buy the units on their own?

    :shock::X

    A $14 million federal homeland security grant in 2005
    means that Fairfax County PD filled out paperwork asking the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity to give them $14 Million to buy those very specific machines for that very specific purpose. Use of the money for anything else is very bad juju and gets lots of people a trip to Club Fed.
    We will probably see some type of criteria soon as to when they will be used.
    That should have been in the grant application, which is available under FOIA. If, for some reason, the criteria for use of the technology was not listed in the grant application there were shennanigans going on. (For the record, the full grant application may or may not be available under FOIA, but the criteria for use should be.)

    What good are these units if the use is completely voluntary all the time.
    Now that is a question that should have been asked and answered before Fairfax County and Homeland Insecurity began tossing $14 Million around.
    The machines cost about $2,200 apiece
    OK, let's see now. 50 x $2,200 = $110,000. What are they going to do with the other $13,890,000? Just how much software interfacing do you get for $13,890,000?

    Based on the .gov & .mil plots to use some of the money appropriated for $700 toilet seats and $500 hammers, I wonder what else is behind that curtain the voice keeps telling us to ignore? [/tinfoil hat]

    Lots of questions. Not many answers. Kind of the way I like to leave things.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sweet!!! 15 more minutes of fame!!!

    I do not think that Fairfax is going to go around demanding people to be scanned. The purpose is more likely to be used during justified stops dealing with people suspected of being wanted, having no ID, and having fake ID cards.

    We will probably see some type of criteria soon as to when they will be used.

    What good are these units if the use is completely voluntary all the time.
    I think they will try to use them every chance they get. I would... It is how the officer handles it upon refusal that matters.

    Law Enforcement has every right to ask for the fingerprint under current laws - to ask. And in many cases, the citizen has every right to decline. At that point the officer should stop trying to fingerprint the citizen unless they are being arrested or detained. It is the duty of the citizen to invoke his or her rights, and the duty of the officer to accept the citizen invoking their rights.

    I see this being the same as searches. "You don't have anything in this bag do you? So you don't mind if I take a look.(?)" Said as if it was a statement, but it is really a question.

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    ama-gi wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I do not think that Fairfax is going to go around demanding people to be scanned. The purpose is more likely to be used during justified stops dealing with people suspected of being wanted, having no ID, and having fake ID cards.
    What about people like us who Open Carry and are stopped in what the officer THINKS is a justified stop, and then refuse to show ID? Are we going to be tased for not following what the cop was taught was "procedure?"
    If there is no crime.. I am not sure how you could be forced to do so.

    This will be interesting to see. I will have to find someone in Fairfax that knows about it.

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    possumboy wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sweet!!! 15 more minutes of fame!!!

    I do not think that Fairfax is going to go around demanding people to be scanned. The purpose is more likely to be used during justified stops dealing with people suspected of being wanted, having no ID, and having fake ID cards.

    We will probably see some type of criteria soon as to when they will be used.

    What good are these units if the use is completely voluntary all the time.
    I think they will try to use them every chance they get. I would... It is how the officer handles it upon refusal that matters.

    Law Enforcement has every right to ask for the fingerprint under current laws - to ask. And in many cases, the citizen has every right to decline. At that point the officer should stop trying to fingerprint the citizen unless they are being arrested or detained. It is the duty of the citizen to invoke his or her rights, and the duty of the officer to accept the citizen invoking their rights.

    I see this being the same as searches. "You don't have anything in this bag do you? So you don't mind if I take a look.(?)" Said as if it was a statement, but it is really a question.
    This is true....

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    This is for your own good! I'm from the Gov't and I am here to help!


  24. #24
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    This is for your own good! I'm from the Gov't and I am here to help!
    I going to sound like a parrot here, but...

    It is the DUTY of the CITIZENto invoketheir rights. The full blame cannot be placed on the government. CITIZENS must take responsibility to ensure their own rights, nobody is going to do it for them.

    It is the duty of the governmentto respect and protect those rights.

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    I am going to guess that the honest and law abiding citizens will not have a problem with the LEO asking questions and checking the prints of suspicious people.

    It is the duty of the Government to protect the people from becoming victims. They must balance the rights of the people while providing this protection. It does come at a cost.

    Would you be willing to let me scan your prints real quick?

    What do you have to hide? :celebrate

    OK, OK.. I know.. No Means No!!

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