MN - Wrong house raided; shots exchanged

color of law · Jan 20, 2008

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html

The cops are 110% at fault. They can't pass the buck. Their job is to get it right, period. It's always the other guys fault. We didn't know the con informant gave us bad info. Cops lie all the time. The magistrate judge wants to believe the cops, because they would never lie. Bull, happens all the time.

"I don't think it was a mistake on our part, you know, we did everything correctly. We did everything in good faith, we followed the search warrant, we did everything correctly. It turns out some of the information that was given on the front end from the informant, just wasn't right," said Garcia. :cuss:

nathan · Jan 20, 2008

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ijusam wrote:

these officers should be commended for resolving the incident without killinganyone in the house. It took great restraint on their part not to respond to shots being fired at them (and hitting them) by killing the homeowner.

just MO, YMMV

They did try to kill the homeowner, they just missed.

Heartless_Conservative · Jan 21, 2008

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nathan wrote:

ijusam wrote:

these officers should be commended for resolving the incident without killinganyone in the house. It took great restraint on their part not to respond to shots being fired at them (and hitting them) by killing the homeowner.

just MO, YMMV

Click to expand...

They did try to kill the homeowner, they just missed.

Got to it before I did.

LEO 229 · Feb 23, 2008

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nathan wrote:

ijusam wrote:

these officers should be commended for resolving the incident without killinganyone in the house. It took great restraint on their part not to respond to shots being fired at them (and hitting them) by killing the homeowner.

just MO, YMMV

Click to expand...

They did try to kill the homeowner, they just missed.

From the news article:
"But police said that they learned later that bad information led them to that house."

The policewere at the right house and were unaware the information they had been given was bad.

They were shot at so they shot back.

So what we have here is two sides each trying to defend themselves. They did not want to kill the home owner... they wanted to stop the shooting and escape with their lives.

Keeping in mind that it was the homeowner that started the shooting at officers who were making entrylegally. The only thing is that the information was bad and had they know.. this would not have happened.

They really should have done some type of verification first.

Marco · Feb 23, 2008

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Keeping in mind that it was the homeowner that started the shooting at officers

these officers should be commended for resolving the incident without killinganyone in the house.

In his mind they were invaders.
Those officers should be grateful he didn't have a more powerful weapon, wasn't a more determined adversary and a better shot.

Those officer and the City's Officials should be grateful those officer didn't kill anyone in that home.
The city would most likely be bankrupt from the pending civil suit.

I'm glad no one was seriously injured or killed.

The person providing the bad intel should be arrested for numerous crimes to include attempted murder.

Thundar · Feb 23, 2008

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What kind of lame hunting gun does not go through the vest?

imperialism2024 · Feb 24, 2008

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Back when this was first posted, I selected the third option. The police had a responsibility to verify facts, and they failed to do that. But if it were not for the legislators and other politicians who want to be "tough on crime" by any means possible, the police would not be put in this position.

swillden · Feb 24, 2008

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Several problems here.

1. The War on Drugs has cost us more freedom and safety than anything else, including the War on Terror. Has anyone ever seen a no-knock entry error that wasn't for a drug-related investigation?

2. Judges issue way too many no-knock warrants. They're extremely dangerous and should be reserved for special circumstances.

3. Because of the high danger involved in executing a no-knock warrant, police should be reserved about asking for them, and very careful to get the supporting evidence corroborated and verified.

4. Police need to find a better way to identify themselves than by shouting "Police!" and wearing vests that say police on them. Home invaders can easily do those things as well.

5. Khang should have made more sure of his target, rather than firing through the door.

Marco · Feb 25, 2008

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What kind of lame hunting gun does not go through the vest?

Taken from the original news story.
"He took out his shotgun and he said if they are bad guys I'll shoot, I'll scare them away," Khang said. "He fired first, he told me it was two shots."

It doesn't state what load he was using.

5. Khang should have made more sure of his target, rather than firing through the door.

Taken from the second news story
Vang Khang, grabbed his shotgun from a closet, knelt and fired a warning shot through his doorway as he heard footsteps coming up the stairs.

I gather from this statement the Police were already in the house not outside, and the doorway was his bedroom door, not the entry way.

swillden · Feb 25, 2008

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Agent19 wrote:

I gather from this statement the Police were already in the house not outside, and the doorway was his bedroom door, not the entry way.

Good point. That does put a different spin on things.

Mordis · Feb 25, 2008

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Leo229 how is it a legal entry if they have the wrong house. Seems to me with rules stating that aslong as the officers thought they had the right house they can invade all they want. Such rules like that will only serve to get innocent people killed. The cops are lucky he didnt have a fullpowered hunting rifle, that would have killed one of the invaders for sure.

DKSuddeth · Feb 25, 2008

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Agent19 wrote:

The person providing the bad intel should be arrested for numerous crimes to include attempted murder.

THIS, QFT!!!

Just like this newest 'swatting' fad, these people lying for a break and putting officers and citizens lives in danger should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

ace1001 · Feb 25, 2008

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I have a REAL problem with no-knock warrants. There have been 9 "mistakes" in Kansas that have resulted in breaking down the wrong door and injuring or killing innocent people. If it is also no-announce, how is this any different that the Gestapo or KGB raids on their own public. If we do nothing to reprimand this, political dissenters will soon become regular victims of "mistakes". Ace

deepdiver · Feb 25, 2008

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Agent19 wrote:

The person providing the bad intel should be arrested for numerous crimes to include attempted murder.

Ding - We have a winner!!!!!

OneShot · Mar 9, 2008

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ace1001 wrote:

I have a REAL problem with no-knock warrants. There have been 9 "mistakes" in Kansas that have resulted in breaking down the wrong door and injuring or killing innocent people. If it is also no-announce, how is this any different that the Gestapo or KGB raids on their own public. If we do nothing to reprimand this, political dissenters will soon become regular victims of "mistakes". Ace

Amen, Ace.

Bear-n-arms nGA · Mar 19, 2008

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Everyone is allowed to an opinion.... here is mine. These officers were given some information that could have possibly been erroneous. In light of most of these information supplying informants current conditions (ie.. just busted for drugs, owes thecopsa favor for them withholding certain info if that if reached the streets may possibly get them killed.)its almostsafe to say that the information didnt come from a concerned citizen and probably got the snitch who "offered" it out of a pigeon hole. With sources such as these its imperative that police do "proper" police work and not just barge into some ones home. They were definitely in the wrong and civil penalties should be charged against the lawful B&E's. However I do commend the officers for showing some restraint. Its almost a miracle that these shots were fired and no one got hurt.

ace1001 · Mar 27, 2008

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It is also a problem that they cut everyone a deal for turning in someone else. They should understan that the incentive is great to make something up, so they need to check it out a LOT better. It also becomes a little daisy chain of probable cause for witch hunt. If they can get a snitch to say the right name, they can get the warrant they have always wanted. Ace

LEO 229 · Mar 28, 2008

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ace1001 wrote:

It is also a problem that they cut everyone a deal for turning in someone else. They should understan that the incentive is great to make something up, so they need to check it out a LOT better. It also becomes a little daisy chain of probable cause for witch hunt. If they can get a snitch to say the right name, they can get the warrant they have always wanted. Ace

It is sad that this happens....

But sometimes you have to bait your hook with small fish if you want to catch the big one!!

imperialism2024 · Mar 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

ace1001 wrote:

It is also a problem that they cut everyone a deal for turning in someone else. They should understan that the incentive is great to make something up, so they need to check it out a LOT better. It also becomes a little daisy chain of probable cause for witch hunt. If they can get a snitch to say the right name, they can get the warrant they have always wanted. Ace

Click to expand...

It is sad that this happens....

But sometimes you have to bait your hook with small fish if you want to catch the big one!!

Though it seems to be more of a case of baiting your hook with small fish in order to catch another small fish, which you will then use as bait to catch another small fish... and hoping that all of the small fish turn into a big fish, and in the mean time there's no other food.

Bear-n-arms nGA · Mar 28, 2008

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imperialism2024 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

ace1001 wrote:

It is also a problem that they cut everyone a deal for turning in someone else. They should understan that the incentive is great to make something up, so they need to check it out a LOT better. It also becomes a little daisy chain of probable cause for witch hunt. If they can get a snitch to say the right name, they can get the warrant they have always wanted. Ace

Click to expand...

It is sad that this happens....

But sometimes you have to bait your hook with small fish if you want to catch the big one!!

Click to expand...

Though it seems to be more of a case of baiting your hook with small fish in order to catch another small fish, which you will then use as bait to catch another small fish... and hoping that all of the small fish turn into a big fish, and in the mean time there's no other food.

Well Put.

MN - Wrong house raided; shots exchanged

Should happen in this case?

Mr. Khang should be charged for firing at police officers

The police should be charged with armed breaking and entering

No one should be charged

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