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Thread: Name? Or nothing?

  1. #1
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    Does anyone know what, if anything, you must disclose or present to a LEO upon an open carrying confrontation for ID, etc. in the state of Louisiana?I've often thought of saying nothing and keep on walking. I've read on some of the other State sites about first name only or a verbal full name, but I am not sure about Louisiana.

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    If LEO decides to approach and question you it is highly recommended you smile, have a positive attitude, and do whatever they ask. Most cops don't know the laws any better than the average Joe so even if there is no requirement to show ID he may arrest you anyway just for being an ass and charge you with resisting. The charges may not stick but you'll spend time in jail, have to bond out, have an arrest on your record (which now has to be thoroughly documented on your CCW app), and have a hell of a time getting your gun back.

    Just my .02.

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    Sounds like good advice, but in order to resist you must be under arrest, huh?

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    Carondalet wrote:
    Sounds like good advice, but in order to resist you must be under arrest, huh?
    There would be some difference between actual resisting and claims of resistance tacked on while being processed at the station.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    There are different levels of arrest. Being pulled over for speeding isn't considered an arrest but "detention". Try not stopping and see what happens. If an LEO has probable cause to stop and question you then it's considered a detention. I don't think simply having a gun strapped to your hip is enough for a probable cause detention (just like a bulge in your jacket isn't probable cause to frisk for a concealed handgun) but it may be enough to want to talk to you. AFAIK, there is no requirement to show ID if you don't have a CCW permit.

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    aroundlsu wrote:
    If LEO decides to approach and question you it is highly recommended you smile, have a positive attitude, and do whatever they ask. Most cops don't know the laws any better than the average Joe so even if there is no requirement to show ID he may arrest you anyway just for being an ass and charge you with resisting. The charges may not stick but you'll spend time in jail, have to bond out, have an arrest on your record (which now has to be thoroughly documented on your CCW app), and have a hell of a time getting your gun back.

    Just my .02.
    Good advice.

    You don't want to eat gravel and why wouldn't you want to show your ID?

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    I'm required to show ID if he asks, but that's because I'm military, and must show it if approached officially by any LEO. Now, if he doesn't ask, then I could give a crap. I'll just have a nice friendlyconvo with him.

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    charlie12 wrote:
    Good advice.

    You don't want to eat gravel and why wouldn't you want to show your ID?
    Is the officer asking everybody for their ID or just those lawfully carrying a gun? What about wearing a NRA hat? Would you stop what you are doing to present your "papers" for that? What if you were talking to some friends about the last movie you went to? Would you show your ID for that? Which of these activities are illegal? None. Which one should you have to prove your innocence of? NONE!

    What if the officer walked up and asked for your bank statement? Or your wife's bra size? Or what church you go to? It's none of their damn business.

    If the law (not the officer) does not require it - don't do it!

    LoveMyCountry

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    aroundlsu wrote:
    There are different levels of arrest. Being pulled over for speeding isn't considered an arrest but "detention". Try not stopping and see what happens. If an LEO has probable cause to stop and question you then it's considered a detention. I don't think simply having a gun strapped to your hip is enough for a probable cause detention (just like a bulge in your jacket isn't probable cause to frisk for a concealed handgun) but it may be enough to want to talk to you. AFAIK, there is no requirement to show ID if you don't have a CCW permit.
    I understand where you're going, but be careful.

    An officer can articulate the need to do a protective pat down for weapons based on the circumstances. It could be anything from they (the police) are outnumbered, outsized, hostile environment, a known criminal who carries weapons, etc..

    They still need a reason to stop you, of course. But if they do, remember there are many reasons an officer can pat you down....as long as they can explain it.

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    Lee wrote:
    aroundlsu wrote:
    There are different levels of arrest. Being pulled over for speeding isn't considered an arrest but "detention". Try not stopping and see what happens. If an LEO has probable cause to stop and question you then it's considered a detention. I don't think simply having a gun strapped to your hip is enough for a probable cause detention (just like a bulge in your jacket isn't probable cause to frisk for a concealed handgun) but it may be enough to want to talk to you. AFAIK, there is no requirement to show ID if you don't have a CCW permit.
    I understand where you're going, but be careful.

    An officer can articulate the need to do a protective pat down for weapons based on the circumstances. It could be anything from they (the police) are outnumbered, outsized, hostile environment, a known criminal who carries weapons, etc..

    They still need a reason to stop you, of course. But if they do, remember there are many reasons an officer can pat you down....as long as they can explain it.
    Since I always carry concealed where legal if the LEO ask for my ID I have to show him. And I'm not going to get my A$$ kicked to prove a point. I have nothing to hide.

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    That's the only law I don't like, the requirment to show ID and your CCW permit when "approached in an official manner." who's to determine what an "official manner" is anyway?

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    I know the law says "official manner" but the back of my card says if placed "under arrest". Big difference.

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    Just do what the "man" says.

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    aroundlsu wrote:
    I know the law says "official manner" but the back of my card says if placed "under arrest". Big difference.
    Could they mean detained? Because a traffic stop is one form of detention. And i know you're supposed to show it during a traffic stop. If they are apporaching you in an official manner I wouldn't think they'd let you leave whenever you want, so therefor you would be detained.

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    Carondalet wrote:
    Does anyone know what, if anything, you must disclose or present to a LEO upon an open carrying confrontation for ID, etc. in the state of Louisiana?I've often thought of saying nothing and keep on walking. I've read on some of the other State sites about first name only or a verbal full name, but I am not sure about Louisiana.
    It's called a Stop and Identify Statute:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

    Louisiana does appear to have one.

    http://legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=112364

    Art. 215.1. Temporary questioning of persons in public places; frisk and search for weapons
    A. A law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place whom he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit an offense and may demand of him his name, address, and an explanation of his actions.
    B. When a law enforcement officer has stopped a person for questioning pursuant to this Article and reasonably suspects that he is in danger, he may frisk the outer clothing of such person for a dangerous weapon. If the law enforcement officer reasonably suspects the person possesses a dangerous weapon, he may search the person.
    C. If the law enforcement officer finds a dangerous weapon, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall either return it, if lawfully possessed, or arrest such person.
    D. During detention of an alleged violator of any provision of the motor vehicle laws of this state, an officer may not detain a motorist for a period of time longer than reasonably necessary to complete the investigation of the violation and issuance of a citation for the violation, absent reasonable suspicion of additional criminal activity. However, nothing herein shall prohibit a peace officer from compelling or instructing the motorist to comply with administrative or other legal requirements of Title 32 or Title 47 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950.
    Added by Acts 1968, No. 305, §1. Amended by Acts 1982, No. 686, §1; Acts 1983, 1st Ex. Sess., No. 32, §1; Acts 1997, No. 759, §3, eff. July 10, 1997.
    ---

    It does seem, though, that reasonable suspicion is required, though.

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    That statute says nothing about showing ID. It says they may stop you and ask for your name and address, not that you have to prove it by showing ID, especially if you ahven't done anything wrong.

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    WhiteRabbit22 wrote:
    That statute says nothing about showing ID. It says they may stop you and ask for your name and address, not that you have to prove it by showing ID, especially if you ahven't done anything wrong.
    The statute shows what you are legally required to provide. A driver's license is a license to operate a motor vehicle and must only be provided during a traffic stop. Outside of that, they make take it during a search incident to a lawful arrest.

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    If a police officer asks you for ID when you are OC, then most likely he does not understand/know the law as it applies to OC. Let's face it, there are not that many people that OC. So if asked, why not be the bigger man and comply as politely and cordial as you can. THEN, you may actually have an opportunity to educate him/her on just what the law says. I really see no reason to get offended or insulted just because you are asked for ID. What would you prefer as the outcome: 1.) Educating a police officer and gaining one more knowlegeable individual on your side or... 2.) showing your ass, risking going to jail, and by your actions creating another enemy against OC. Like I've said before, you have to pick your battles. - David

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    DMB wrote:
    If a police officer asks you for ID when you are OC, then most likely he does not understand/know the law as it applies to OC. Let's face it, there are not that many people that OC. So if asked, why not be the bigger man and comply as politely and cordial as you can. THEN, you may actually have an opportunity to educate him/her on just what the law says. I really see no reason to get offended or insulted just because you are asked for ID. What would you prefer as the outcome: 1.) Educating a police officer and gaining one more knowlegeable individual on your side or... 2.) showing your ass, risking going to jail, and by your actions creating another enemy against OC. Like I've said before, you have to pick your battles. - David
    I prefer option #3) respecting the rights granted to me by the Constitution and my freedom to go about my business. My right to move freely about is a battle I'll gladly pick to fight.

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    Cop: "Show me your I.D."

    My Response: "Am I being detained?"

    Possible response #1 Cop:"No" My Response: "Then I will be on my way, thank you sir."

    Possible response #2 Cop: "Yes" My response: "What crime am I suspected of commiting?"

    If the Cop cannot articulate that I am suspected of committing a specific crime, then I will ask for him/her to either let me be about my business or to please call a supervisor.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Cop: "Show me your I.D."

    My Response: "Am I being detained?"

    Possible response #1 Cop:"No" My Response: "Then I will be on my way, thank you sir."

    Possible response #2 Cop: "Yes" My response: "What crime am I suspected of commiting?"

    If the Cop cannot articulate that I am suspected of committing a specific crime, then I will ask for him/her to either let me be about my business or to please call a supervisor.
    [sigh] now that's original. - David

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    DMB wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Cop: "Show me your I.D."

    My Response: "Am I being detained?"

    Possible response #1 Cop:"No" My Response: "Then I will be on my way, thank you sir."

    Possible response #2 Cop: "Yes" My response: "What crime am I suspected of commiting?"

    If the Cop cannot articulate that I am suspected of committing a specific crime, then I will ask for him/her to either let me be about my business or to please call a supervisor.
    [sigh] now that's original. - David
    That's being a free citizen.

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    Wynder wrote:
    DMB wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Cop: "Show me your I.D."

    My Response: "Am I being detained?"

    Possible response #1 Cop:"No" My Response: "Then I will be on my way, thank you sir."

    Possible response #2 Cop: "Yes" My response: "What crime am I suspected of commiting?"

    If the Cop cannot articulate that I am suspected of committing a specific crime, then I will ask for him/her to either let me be about my business or to please call a supervisor.
    [sigh] now that's original. - David
    That's being a free citizen.
    You are 100% right. Personally, i would opt for a different approach. I'm a cop who happens to not only know the law, but support OC. You'd never have this problem with me. If I stopped you, it would be to BS about your gun. However, as you know there are those that simply don't know. They aren't hasseling you, they THINK they are doing the right thing. Wouldn't a little cordial two way conversation be more beneficial in the end, as opposed to the standard militia type response? Just saying ....- David

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    DMB writes:
    You are 100% right. Personally, i would opt for a different approach. I'm a cop who happens to not only know the law, but support OC. You'd never have this problem with me. If I stopped you, it would be to BS about your gun. However, as you know there are those that simply don't know. They aren't hasseling you, they THINK they are doing the right thing. Wouldn't a little cordial two way conversation be more beneficial in the end, as opposed to the standard militia type response? Just saying ....- David
    There's a difference between walking up and starting a conversation by asking for ID and "Hey, is that a Springfield XD?"

    The latter will most certainly earn a friendly conversation about the Dawson fiber optic sights and extended mag release I've had added for competition shooting. The former will elicit the militia response.

    What you're saying certainly goes too ways, if the LEO starts of casual and cordial -- and I feel as though he's not probing for anything outside of general interest -- I'm all for a chat if I have the time.



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    Check out what SCOTUS has to say about "Terry Stops" and "Reasonable Articulable Suspision".

    If a cop walks up and says, "Excuse me, can I talk to you for a minute?" and starts a polite conversation with me, then fine I will be polite, and if he asks me why I am carrying a gun, I will let him know that I carry it for personal protection and in compliance with all applicable California and Federal Laws.

    If a cop walks up and says, "You there, stop, show me your I.D., NOW." I will ask the questions I stated previosly. If it escalates to him threatening me with arrest, etc. I will comply with all his directives about "hands on the car" "move over there" etc. But I will provide him only the information that I am required to by law.

    Know the Law, Know your Surroundings, Know your Rights, and Know the number to a good attorney.

    I refuse to give up any of my constitutional rights just to "appease" an LEO and make things go "smoother".

    It's the 4A right to be secure in your person, papers, and effects. When they start the "Gif me your papers" (Tuetonic accent added) BS, I know they will attemp to intimidate me into forfeiting my rights.

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