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Thread: OC on private property in Florida

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    I know that OC in public is lot legal. It is legal to OC on private property? I am looking at property (out in the woods) and would feel more comfortable carrying (no ccw yet). If I have permission from the current owners can I OC on their property? Anyone have a link to an official Florida State site that covers this?



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    Florida law lets you carry handguns or long guns any way on your private property, even your place of business. I've mowed my front lawn shirtless with my glock on my hip. as long as you have the property owners' permission, there should be no problem oc'ing there. as far as cc goes, what they don't know can't hurt.
    The link below is to Chapter 790 of FL statutes that deal with firearms law
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...EChapter%20790

    also, I highly recommend Jon Gutmacher's book Florida Firearms Law, Use, & Ownership.

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    I contacted the Sherrif's Dpt and was told as long as I had written permission from the owner to be on the property and there was nothing that would prevent me from possessing a firearm I was good.

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    flcaptainbill wrote:
    I contacted the Sherrif's Dpt and was told as long as I had written permission from the owner to be on the property and there was nothing that would prevent me from possessing a firearm I was good.
    Don't ask the Sheriff, ask an attorney.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    flcaptainbill wrote:
    I contacted the Sherrif's Dpt and was told as long as I had written permission from the owner to be on the property and there was nothing that would prevent me from possessing a firearm I was good.

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--
    (1)Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.
    (2)A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
    (a)A self-defense chemical spray.
    (b)A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3)Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.



    I'm curious, where is the exception that allows open carry on your own property? As this reads, it is against the law to carry a firearm from your living room to your bedroom.

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    GIdeon_70 wrote:
    I'm curious, where is the exception that allows open carry on your own property? As this reads, it is against the law to carry a firearm from your living room to your bedroom.
    Very interesting observation. It would even appear that the Sheriff referred to above gave bad advice about "written permission" as the law does not seem to address that directly either - or is to be found in case law?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    GIdeon_70 wrote:
    I'm curious, where is the exception that allows open carry on your own property? As this reads, it is against the law to carry a firearm from your living room to your bedroom.
    Very interesting observation. It would even appear that the Sheriff referred to above gave bad advice about "written permission" as the law does not seem to address that directly either - or is to be found in case law?
    I did some research and the law says that you can ignore the open carry law "at your own house", which is ambiguous at best. It does not specifically say "In your own house or business, but At your own house or business... I was kind of suprised, because it does not say "On your own property, but At your own property. I could be standing in the middle of the street and claim that I was at my house - see, it's right there.

    My guess is that if you are openly carrying in your front yard, You may very well be legal, but you also may find yourself face down on the ground and trying to argue case law to a local police officer.

    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    **snip**

    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

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    GIdeon_70 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    GIdeon_70 wrote:
    I'm curious, where is the exception that allows open carry on your own property? As this reads, it is against the law to carry a firearm from your living room to your bedroom.
    Very interesting observation. It would even appear that the Sheriff referred to above gave bad advice about "written permission" as the law does not seem to address that directly either - or is to be found in case law?
    I did some research and the law says that you can ignore the open carry law "at your own house", which is ambiguous at best. It does not specifically say "In your own house or business, but At your own house or business... I was kind of suprised, because it does not say "On your own property, but At your own property. I could be standing in the middle of the street and claim that I was at my house - see, it's right there.

    My guess is that if you are openly carrying in your front yard, You may very well be legal, but you also may find yourself face down on the ground and trying to argue case law to a local police officer.

    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    **snip**
    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.-- This should go in place of (3) in the above reply.

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    Grapeshot,

    You have to read the whole statute. Not just one portion. Look further down the list.

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    cvickers wrote:
    Grapeshot,

    You have to read the whole statute. Not just one portion. Look further down the list.
    I neither read the statute nor quoted from it. I was simply making observations and asking a question. I have enough of a problem keeping up with the laws of Virginia and the other few states in which I travel.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    My mistake, Grapeshot. The reference you are requesting is under F.S.S. 790.25(3)(n)--Lawful ownership, possession and use of firearms and other weapons.

    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053* and 790.06** do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;



    Some would play with words but I would argue that if I am in my house I am at my house.



    *790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--

    Deals with the requirements for the State to issue a license.

    **790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--
    (1)Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.
    (2)A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
    (a)A self-defense chemical spray.
    (b)A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3)Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.




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    The only thing that 790.25 (3) (n) is saying is that you are allowed to own or possess a firearm in your home or place of business. For you to open carry in those places it would need to specifically state that you can open carry.

    That is why convenient store employee's keep the weapon behind the counter hidden. They are not allowed to wear it.

    Like stated earlier 790.053 covers what you are allowed to open carry.

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    Gary,

    You need to wake up and smell the coffee. This section plainly states that 790.053 and 790.06 which deal with open carry and with the States obligation to issue permits to qualified applicants, do not apply.

    Are you saying that the Police have a right to tell me that I can not openly carry a gun inside my house. I never heard that interpretation during my 15 years on the job. I know that you have no way of knowing if I was an Officer or not but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Also, go into any gun shop and see how many employees carry openly.




    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:



    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

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    +1 Cvickers. many states have open carry not because the law says they can, but because they don't have a law saying they can't. Fl 790.053 says i can't openly carry a firearm on or about my person, but 790.25 (3) says 790.053 doesn't apply (n) on my property or place of business. most convenience store employees hide their weapons because company policy says they can't have them and they're not going to take the chance. now i think this brings up an interesting point. with all the noise going on about the bring your gun to work law and property rights, could a business owner invite (not require, invite) those with a ccw to openly carry in their place of business? Would this be a violation of 790.053 (3)(n) since i'm not on my private property or place of business? i'm a pretty gun friendly guy, and all my friends and family know that if they're in or at my home they can proudly display their weapons if they so choose.

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    As I understand Florida Law, (I'm no expert) any employee has the right to open carry in the place of business if the owner approves. Many of the gun stores in Orange County have/let their employees OC.

    Many retail operations probably would not do it because they might think they would lose business. However, those of who know, would know that their place of business would be the safest place in town.



    As far as your friends OC at/in your house, you might get some flack from the neighbors if you were outside but I don't think it would be illegal as long as they were on your property, acting properly, with your permission.

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    cvickers wrote:
    As I understand Florida Law, (I'm no expert) any employee has the right to open carry in the place of business if the owner approves. Many of the gun stores in Orange County have/let their employees OC.

    Many retail operations probably would not do it because they might think they would lose business. However, those of who know, would know that their place of business would be the safest place in town.



    As far as your friends OC at/in your house, you might get some flack from the neighbors if you were outside but I don't think it would be illegal as long as they were on your property, acting properly, with your permission.
    That is my understanding too... A person may OC with the business/property owners permission and as long as it's not in a reckless or threatening way.



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    Let me start off by saying that I think that anyone should be allowed to oc in your business. But, like most people will agree you need to walk a fine line when it comes to issues like this. Don't read too far into the law. After talking to several state attorneys. They basically stated that unless you can find a law saying that you can do this or do that, you can't. Which would mean find a statute that specifically says that you can oc in your place of business. If not, then it needs to be concealed. Don't read too far into the statute.

    That is how it is explained to me. Again like you stated, you can own and possess, that doesn't mean you can open carry.

    Again, like you, with my years on the job, it has been explained to me differently from supervisor to supervisor. Hell, my supervisor right now thinks that repo agents don't have authority to repossess vehicles. Which we all know isn't right.

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    gary wrote:
    (snip)
    After talking to several state attorneys. They basically stated that unless you can find a law saying that you can do this or do that, you can't.
    Most emphatically incorrect! I do not need the governments permission to eat, sleep,walk down the street or work. Neither am I required to carry papers showing that I have these priviledges. These things are called RIGHTS! Unless you are restricted by statute, you may do it.

    The same applies to any method of carry and personal choice as to weapon type. If there is no law against it, you can do it.

    How can you be arrested and prosecuted if you have broken no law?
    Permission - Please. I don't think so!

    BTW - what are "state attorneys?" Do you mean simply an in-state attorney or are you implying that they are members of some governmental agency as in Attorneys General?

    For you homework you should read the United States Constitution and specifically be prepared to discuss the Bill of Rights.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    In some cases you do. If there is a statute that says that you can't open carry you need to find a statute stating exceptions to the rule.

    For example:
    **790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--
    (1)Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.
    (2)A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
    (a)A self-defense chemical spray.
    (b)A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3)Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


    Just like there is an exception that allows police to open carry. Also, "State Attorney" is correct, we don't have an "In-State Attorney" in Florida so again I am correct.

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    Hi, y'all. First post here. Nice to meet you.

    I'm not prepared to argue legal semantics, but I OC frequently at my house here in Daytona, and have waved to the LEOs as they drive past. I have never had a problem with them.

    There are also at least 3 crack dealers in the vicinity. When I moved in they used to make deals right in front of my house, in the middle of the street. They don't do that any more. Now they go around the corner to the next street. I don't know if that's because they've seen me with my pistol on my hip or not, but I'll take it.

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    gary wrote:
    In some cases you do. If there is a statute that says that you can't open carry you need to find a statute stating exceptions to the rule.
    Again, its in

    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
    (3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business

    I would certainly call
    "it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device" a provision of 790.053.

    it may not be crystal freakin' clear, but did you really expect the mungheads in office to spell it out for you?

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    cvickers wrote:
    Gary,

    You need to wake up and smell the coffee. This section plainly states that 790.053 and 790.06 which deal with open carry and with the States obligation to issue permits to qualified applicants, do not apply.

    Are you saying that the Police have a right to tell me that I can not openly carry a gun inside my house. I never heard that interpretation during my 15 years on the job. I know that you have no way of knowing if I was an Officer or not but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Also, go into any gun shop and see how many employees carry openly.





    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:



    (n)A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
    Yep, thats true... Open carry has to be legal on your property, i doubt a gun dealer would bend the rules of the law so im going just by that. and the above advice, I have taken my trash out to the alley at night openly carrying plenty of time's. Sure there was not a cop in the alley to question it, but im sure if there had been it would not be an issue on my own property.

    I'm just going buy common sence here. I guess by law i could sit on the front porch in daytime with a 12 guage on my lap sipping a cocktail ... technically. lol, although i would not put it to the test, im sure it would be quite amusing to have on video just to see what would happen.

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    JMJ1987 wrote:
    [snip]
    I'm just going buy common sence here. I guess by law i could sit on the front porch in daytime with a 12 guage on my lap sipping a cocktail ... technically. lol, although i would not put it to the test, im sure it would be quite amusing to have on video just to see what would happen.
    Just did it the other day - had a couple pistols, a rifle and shotgun that needed cleaning, and it was a rare summer day in Tampa that was not too muggy so I decided to clean them outside.

    Actually had two deputy's drive by and wave. But then again this is in the free county of Hillsborough.:P

    One evening a couple months ago we hada lot police activity in the area (including helicopter) , so I walked outside to see what's up. One of the deputy's stopped and explained that Pasco SO was chasing a drug dealer and he abandoned his car and took off through the woods/swamp. Well I'm on the other side of the woods/swamp and he came running through the neighborhood. The Deputy saw my Glock and actually told me "If you see this jerk, do me a favor and shoot him so we can get this over with!"

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    Good to hear Hillsborough is relatively sane. I haven't had any problems in Pinellas either. I usually keep my firearms concealed even on my property, but when I go to take my trash out at night, I don't always remember to cover it up. I've never had anyone complain. I also sit in my garage with the door open (it gets hot in there with it shut) to clean my firearms since my wife hates the smell of Hoppes #9 in the kitchen.

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    gextyr wrote:
    Good to hear Hillsborough is relatively sane. I haven't had any problems in Pinellas either. I usually keep my firearms concealed even on my property, but when I go to take my trash out at night, I don't always remember to cover it up. I've never had anyone complain. I also sit in my garage with the door open (it gets hot in there with it shut) to clean my firearms since my wife hates the smell of Hoppes #9 in the kitchen.
    Hoppes #9 is a true aphrodisiac! One of the seven greatest fragrances known to man. Use it as an aftershave and you will be able to spend more time working on your toys.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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