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Thread: Will the police lie to make an arrest?

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    I was discussing open carry with a friend. During our discussionthe frienddescribed a conversation he had with a Seattle LEO a couple of weeks ago. He said when asked about OC the LEO indicated if he saw anyone OCing he would arrest them. It didn't matter if carrying the gun was legal or not , he would bust them for disturbing the peace or something. But however it went he would get them off the street. So the question I have is how apt is a LEO, especially Seattle, to lie on a police report to justify a personnel agenda?

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    Know the gun laws, be confident, be polite. Bring along the gun laws on little sheets.

    You might also hand them the following.

    Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
    Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

    This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

    This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

    Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

    Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.



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    YES!!! I have cousins that are cops, friends that are cops... they don't care if the bust sticks, they will have only proved their point to you and made your life inconvenient, thereby making you think twice about carrying again.

    Hence their personal point of view is established.

    Not all cops are bad like that, but it only takes one for you to spend a night in the pokey and eventually get out un-charged.

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    I hope you don't take offense because I am not trying to ridicule you but a cop lying to make an arrest is comparable to a politician lying to get into the White House. It will and does happen. Don't ever put your faith or trust in a cop. They aren't your buddy and they do have an agenda. (i mean quota) This isn't to say you should be an ******* to a cop. That is a huge no-no. Mutual respect should be observed thorughout the entire situation. Just don't be stupid and think you can rely on the man.

    Disclaimer: This reply isn't representative of all Law Enforcement Officers. Only the ones I have personally encountered in my 30 years on this rock.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    I've seen a cop lie on the stand. Admittedly not about a 'super important' case -- but it was under oath and charges would have been dropped if he told the truth.

    I've seen a cop knowingly and intentionally break the law while off duty. He flat out said something like "thin blue line" -- in other words, his buddies would let him go if caught.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

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    A lot of people will strut and bluster to make a point in casual conversation.

    Have there been any cases in WA where and LEO arrested and OCer "just to get them off the street" where the charges later didn't stick?

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    deanf wrote:
    A lot of people will strut and bluster to make a point in casual conversation.

    Have there been any cases in WA where and LEO arrested and OCer "just to get them off the street" where the charges later didn't stick?
    +1 exactly what I was thinking. I've heard cops say things like "if I saw someone doing such and such I would shoot him on sight" but obviously when it comes down to brass tacks it is mostly hot air. Personally I have dealt with one of the most anti OC police agencies in Washington ( The Tulalip tribal police ) and came out of it ok without going to jail. When it comes down to it as soon as an officer realizes you know the law, it doesn't really matter what his personal agenda is he is unlikely to follow through with his threats knowinghis job may be in jeopardy.

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    I think cops will lie to make an arrest just like most people will lie to avoid arrest. There are at least two sides to every story and which one you believe is arrording to which side you want to believe. It seems that most of the time on this forum a CCW's word is always taken over a LEO's or non-CCW holder.

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    PT111 wrote:
    I think cops will lie to make an arrest just like most people will lie to avoid arrest. There are at least two sides to every story and which one you believe is arrording to which side you want to believe. It seems that most of the time on this forum a CCW's word is always taken over a LEO's or non-CCW holder.
    The difference being, of course, that my lie will not land anyone in jail for no reason. If an officer lies and claim that I was doing something illegal which I wasn't doing, then I end up in jail even though I am completely innocent. If I lie in an effort to get myself out of trouble I MAY not go to jail. That is what court is for, to determine who is telling the truth. The problem is that when the officer lies an innocent person is put through the wringer. When I lie the process goes forward is designed.

    One might also point out that it isn't the cops job to make arrests, it is the cops job to make arrests of people who are breaking the law.

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    So it is OK for a murderer to lie on the stand to get off and then go kill someone else. And if it is the job of cops to onloy arrest those wo are breaking the law then waht are courts and juries for if only to try the guilty?

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    PT111 wrote:
    So it is OK for a murderer to lie on the stand to get off and then go kill someone else. And if it is the job of cops to onloy arrest those wo are breaking the law then waht are courts and juries for if only to try the guilty?
    I thinkHeresolong was referring to police lying in order to justify an arrest for something that is otherwise legal on the basis of a personal bias against the legal conduct.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    PT111 wrote:
    So it is OK for a murderer to lie on the stand to get off and then go kill someone else. And if it is the job of cops to onloy arrest those wo are breaking the law then waht are courts and juries for if only to try the guilty?
    Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say it was OK for anyone to lie.

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    When you encounter a cop that lies on the stand, often you are seeing a lazy cop. He wants to do the job, he just doesn't want to go through the steps to do it right. Sloppy arrests, sloppy paperwork, sloppy followthrough are some characteristics. Sometimes a Leo "just knows" that someone is guilty of a crime and it frosts him that he can't find the supportive evidence. Rather than work harder, or wait for the actor to screw up and get caught red-handed he will game the system. Perhaps this should be called the "Mark Furhman" syndrome.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    irfner wrote:
    I was discussing open carry with a friend. During our discussionthe frienddescribed a conversation he had with a Seattle LEO a couple of weeks ago. He said when asked about OC the LEO indicated if he saw anyone OCing he would arrest them. It didn't matter if carrying the gun was legal or not , he would bust them for disturbing the peace or something. But however it went he would get them off the street. So the question I have is how apt is a LEO, especially Seattle, to lie on a police report to justify a personnel agenda?
    Of the 4police reports I've ever read, all4 of them were packed full of lies. I also had a cop and a prosecutor lie in court about me.

    I made some mistakes in college. I drank too much and I smoked pot. I don't do drugs anymore and haven't for many years. I rarely ever drink anymore, and when I do it is very conservatively. That being said, I will go into some details. I was 18 and a freshman at MSU in Montana. I was drunk on Everclear, because I was an idiot, and I was passed out in the back of my friends' jeepfor the same reason. They were smoking a bowl in the parking lot, because idiots like to hang out with other idiots. A cop came up and knocked on the window.

    I was told that I, as well as the 6 others in the car,was under arrest for possession of marijuanna and possession of parif. There were two pipes in the car, which were both claimed, and the only pot was resin scraped from the bowl. But we were all still charged. My 6 fellow idiots took plea bargains, and I plead not guilty, since (unlike washington) there is no guilt-by-association in Montana. I hired a lawyer and I had a rock solid case. I went to court, confident that I would be found not guilty by the judge.

    Every time the prosecutor said anything, my lawyer said "Objection, hearsay". And to my horror, every time my lawyer said that, the judge said "I'm going to allow it". For those of you that don't know, hearsay is not admissable in court. In the prosecutor's closing arguement, he said "I do not have Mr. Lynch's record with me, but he does have a record, and he has been spoken to several times about minor in possession of alcohol by officer White*." The judge asked Officer White if this was true, and he said that it was. I had my lawyer object, since I had no criminal record at all. None what-so-ever. I also had never spoken with Officer White or any other officer about minor in possession or anything else for that matter.

    I was found guilty of a crime I didn't commit, with absolutely zero legal evidence, and had a police officer and a prosecutor lie about me having a record and being a repeat offender.

    I filed an appeal the same day. It was February 11th, 2003. I lived in WA, because I had dropped out of school shortly after the arrest in November of 2002. I had to commute to Montana for all of my court dates involving this matter. I received a letter postmarked March 4th, 2002, which said that my appeal was not filed correctly (which was incorrect, my lawyer filed it correctly). It said that I had until February 24th, 2002to re-file. I called the court and said that there was a problem, and that I couldn't re-file in time, since the letter wasn't sent until after I was allowed to re-file. They said that regardless of this fact, I would have to ask a judge, in person, for permission to re-file an appeal, and even then, it would be the judge's decision. I couldn't afford to drive back out to Montana, so I was denied my right to an appeal.

    I was raped by the legal system. It wasn't the last time either, but it is the only story I'm sharing today.

    *I forget his name, I'm substituting the name White for the sake of the story.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    When you encounter a cop that lies on the stand, often you are seeing a lazy cop. He wants to do the job, he just doesn't want to go through the steps to do it right. Sloppy arrests, sloppy paperwork, sloppy followthrough are some characteristics. Sometimes a Leo "just knows" that someone is guilty of a crime and it frosts him that he can't find the supportive evidence. Rather than work harder, or wait for the actor to screw up and get caught red-handed he will game the system. Perhaps this should be called the "Mark Furhman" syndrome.
    You totally lost me after the first comma.

    It should read:

    When you see a cop that lies on the stand, then you are seeing a cop that belongs on the other side of the bars.

    All the rest is drivel, justification, bs.

    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    When you encounter a cop that lies on the stand, often you are seeing a lazy cop. He wants to do the job, he just doesn't want to go through the steps to do it right. Sloppy arrests, sloppy paperwork, sloppy followthrough are some characteristics. Sometimes a Leo "just knows" that someone is guilty of a crime and it frosts him that he can't find the supportive evidence. Rather than work harder, or wait for the actor to screw up and get caught red-handed he will game the system. Perhaps this should be called the "Mark Furhman" syndrome.
    You totally lost me after the first comma.

    It should read:

    When you see a cop that lies on the stand, then you are seeing a cop that belongs on the other side of the bars.

    All the rest is drivel, justification, bs.
    I agree. I believe that those in Law Enforcement who lie on the stand have violated the very law they have sworn to uphold. They have attacked the faith and trust of the people and the nation and are guilty of TREASON.

    LoveMyCountry

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