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Thread: Public Buildings

  1. #1
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    Nevada law states that one may not conceal a firearm in a public building, but is silent as far as open carry. It considers a public building to be:

    The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose. (As well as buildings part of the Nevada System of Higher Education.)

    So basically,

    That means that as long as the building isn't a school (possession covered by other NV law), and its not a federal building (where federal law prohibits the possession of firearms), you can carry your firearm openly correct?

    So, libraries, buildings part of the city, county, etc. should all be okay right?

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    The only question I have --- is a library considered part of the "Nevada System of Higher Education"?

    If not, then as long as there is no metal detector, you should be fine.

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    Nope, NSHE institutions are:

    http://system.nevada.edu/Institutio/index.htm



    I went down to the library today, but decided to put my revolver in my car because posted on the front was:

    No firearms allowed per NRS 202.3673.

    Turns out that NRS was the one I was looking at earlier, and it only pertains to concealed firearms:

    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

    2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.

    3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

    (a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:

    (a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.

    (b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.

    (c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.

    (d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.

    5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    6. As used in this section:

    (a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:

    (1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or

    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

    Ê If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.

    (Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914)



    So actually, by law I would guess open carry was permitted.

    HOWEVER, on the inside I also saw a yellow piece of paper in an obscure place that said
    "Board of Trustees of the Washoe Count Library has established the following rules andregulations for Washoe County Libraries"


    and on the list one of the bullets was:

    "Patrons shall not bring a weapon" and said that patrons who do will be "expelled from the library for 1 month."

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    I actually also read the first part wrong too. It looks like you CAN conceal (with permit) in public buildings so long as they do not have a metal detector or sign.

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    I am confused...The law you referenced says NSHE or public buildings with metal detectors, of which the library is neither. Thus I would conclude that open carry is permitted, despite what signs they have posted. As public buildings, they cannot expel citizens who are legally exercising their rights.

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    I think you are definitely right since in 3.it says you cannot CONCEAL a weapon if there is a metal detector or no firearms sign, but it doesn't sayanywhere thatyou cannot open carry if there is a no firearms sign.



    Are you also sayingthat they would beillegitimate in expelling a person for a monthor making them leavefor breaking libary rulessince it is a public entity?

    I know a private place could tell someone to leave and one would have to do it since it is there property, but I don't know how public property works.

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    A public building cannot implement rules which conflict with state laws. Walmart can kick me out if they don't like the fact that I'm wearing a gun because they are private property, but since Federal, State and Local laws otherwise do not prohibit the open carry of firearms, public institutions may not implement stricter rules. This is the whole notion of preemption.

    This same argument was used in Virginia, when the bus system tried to prevent an armed citizen from OC on a bus. But since the bus system is subsidized with public monies, the bus system was not permitted to implement rules stricter than the law and the citizen was permitted to ride the bus.

    I would think the same holds true here.

    Now, before trying it, I'd be careful.

    1. They do not have the right to expel you, but they think they do.
    2. They will issue you a written notice and likely call LE.
    3. If you return, you could be cited for trespassing. Remember, cops do not interpret the laws, only enforce them... And a notice from the library administrator that you're not permitted to return might be enough reason to cite you for trespassing.
    4. You would have to go to court and have a judge rule that the library is not permitted to expel you, and thus the written notice of expulsion is struck down.

    Further, we all can OC here in Nevada because state law does not otherwise prohibit it, and thus there's no NRS you can reference that would help the librarian understand "See, I can OC, it says so right here!".

    Perhaps the library would make an ideal spot for a meeting...I'm in. Although I haven't been to a library since the Internet became so easy to use, so I don't even begin to know what we'd do there! :-) Plus, since I have no use for a library, I don't mind getting illegally expelled...Though I'm not a rich guy, so I fear I wouldn't have the funds to hire an attorney to fight it. I wouldn't mind contributing though.

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    I've been really tempted to carry my sidearm into the Clark County building at 500 S. Grand Central Pkwy. They do have the typicalsigns on the door quoting the NRS prohibiting concealed carry. I do business there often and I really hate unholstering and leaving my gun in the car every time.

    I've read the laws and it is my understanding that open carry is legal there. If I get a chance I'm going to ask security someday what their policy is. I'm sure they will tell me its not allowed, but I might be surprised.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Nevada law states that one may not conceal a firearm in a public building, but is silent as far as open carry. It considers a public building to be:

    The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose. (As well as buildings part of the Nevada System of Higher Education.)

    So basically,

    That means that as long as the building isn't a school (possession covered by other NV law), and its not a federal building (where federal law prohibits the possession of firearms), you can carry your firearm openly correct?

    So, libraries, buildings part of the city, county, etc. should all be okay right?
    Here in Pahrump there are particularly two of us, plus several others loosley, who open carry constantly. We have been fighting the good fight. The library had a "No Firearms" sign up and we got the District Attorney Bob Beckett and his Assistant District Attorney Ron Kent to visit the library and to order the sign on the door removed. I, in particular, have been OC in the library for two years now. The nasty head librarian and a couple of here closest associates do not like this and have been nit-picking me on other subjects constantly. Still I have my Mk4 Colt condition one at this very moment on my right hip here in the Pahrump Library. The local Pahrump Wal-Mart is just fine and the manager likes us OC in his store. I'm in there there three or four times every week. Sometimes people ask me about this, either in a friendly manner or obviously annoyed. I always smile and give an excellent explanation. I was a PR man in the Air Force and have much experience dealing with people in a constructive manner. Everyone should be a friendly representative of armed citizenry.

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    timf343 wrote:
    The only question I have --- is a library considered part of the "Nevada System of Higher Education"?

    If not, then as long as there is no metal detector, you should be fine.
    Public Libraries are not part of the "Nevada System of Higher Education."

    At this very moment, I am posting this from within the Pahrump Library.

    Implementation of manned metal detectors are very cost prohibitive.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Nope, NSHE institutions are:

    http://system.nevada.edu/Institutio/index.htm



    I went down to the library today, but decided to put my revolver in my car because posted on the front was:

    No firearms allowed per NRS 202.3673.

    Turns out that NRS was the one I was looking at earlier, and it only pertains to concealed firearms:

    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

    2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.

    3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

    (a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:

    (a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.

    (b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.

    (c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.

    (d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.

    5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    6. As used in this section:

    (a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:

    (1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or

    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

    Ê If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.

    (Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914)



    So actually, by law I would guess open carry was permitted.

    HOWEVER, on the inside I also saw a yellow piece of paper in an obscure place that said
    "Board of Trustees of the Washoe Count Library has established the following rules andregulations for Washoe County Libraries"


    and on the list one of the bullets was:

    "Patrons shall not bring a weapon" and said that patrons who do will be "expelled from the library for 1 month."
    NRS 202.3673 does not apply to OC.

    I have personally observed signs in various public buildings which are not lawful. Here in Pahrump the welfare office has two signs inside the waiting room area which essentially state that no weapons are allowed and NRS 202.3673 is cited on these signs. Shortly I will have these signs removed as they are unlawful. A close associate of mine and I did the same with the library here. It is common for people working in public buildings to post all manner of bogus signs which please them. They are required to follow the law and not to make any public building in which they work their private castle. I have repeatedly been present OC for extended periods in said waiting room and no one has attempted to enforced the unlawful signs.

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    Yes, you are exactly correct. Manning metal detectors is very expensive. Only a fewplaces do it, like Clark County Court Buildings. There you will observe perhaps a dozen deputies present at all times. Here in Pahrump at least two of us frequent our local Court Houseopen carryingvirtually on a daily basis. When we chose to observe in actual Court Rooms, we disarm before entering. This may not be perfectly necessary in law but the Judges think it is and so do the bailiffs. This is two shocking for them at this time. In old flicks you will see whole courtrooms of armed public persons in attendance. Oh, for the good old days!

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    Wizardrex wrote:
    Yes, you are exactly correct. Manning metal detectors is very expensive. Only a fewplaces do it, like Clark County Court Buildings. There you will observe perhaps a dozen deputies present at all times. Here in Pahrump at least two of us frequent our local Court Houseopen carryingvirtually on a daily basis. When we chose to observe in actual Court Rooms, we disarm before entering. This may not be perfectly necessary in law but the Judges think it is and so do the bailiffs. This is two shocking for them at this time. In old flicks you will see whole courtrooms of armed public persons in attendance. Oh, for the good old days!
    OK, so here's a stumper. Isn't the law also silent on OC thru metal detectors? CC is restricted thru a metal detector, but OC is not, doesn't a building with metal detectors have to play by the same rules as the library? So, I'll set off the metal detector.....to what end? Can they restrict my entry to the public building for an activity not prohibited by law? HMMMMMMMMMM

    .....but I'm not going to be the one to try.

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    timf343 wrote:
    .....but I'm not going to be the one to try.
    That is the issue, Tim.

    Ken

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    Id probably be willing to give it a shot if I had an unloaded, inexpensive piece on me that I could afford to lose. Worst case is they confiscate your weapon for something bogus, or because they think they can, and possibly arrest you, although I think they might have a problem finding a charge to book you for.

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    CowboyKen wrote:
    timf343 wrote:
    .....but I'm not going to be the one to try.
    That is the issue, Tim.

    Ken
    You make a good point but the bailiff isn't going to argue with you or I. He has his orders not to allow weapons in the courtroom and he isn't interested in specific statutes. What? A nation of men, not a nation of laws?

    The bailiff here is a generally nice smiling fellow. We occassionally walk OC through his metal detector outside the courtroom to demonstrate for members of the press and others how it works. We're nice fellows too.

    I am very frustrated in my search for mention, hopefully documented, of an action by the Nevada Legislature back in the late 80's or perhaps a little later in which said legislature declared, in one form or another, that it is lawful to frequent public buildings while armed. Supposedly, the assorted members of the legislature wished to carry weapons, supposedly concealed, themselves while in public buildings. Evidently they were desirous of being able to defend themselves if attacked. This action reportedly applied to everyone and not just the legislators.

    I have met several people who remember seeing Nevada Legislative documentation supporting OC or even to have possessed copies themselves but who have lost their copies. I would love to find this crucial material.NRS's or Nevada Administrative Codes are mostly about what you can't do as opposed to what you specifically can. I have lived in Nevada for 14 years and the positive action by the legislature took place before I arrived.

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    Rains wrote:
    Id probably be willing to give it a shot if I had an unloaded, inexpensive piece on me that I could afford to lose. Worst case is they confiscate your weapon for something bogus, or because they think they can, and possibly arrest you, although I think they might have a problem finding a charge to book you for.
    I would also be willing to give it a shot under equal circumstances. Strength in numbers. But be careful, don't want to have that charge they're looking for be a violation of NRS 203.080....

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