bradley square mall, cleveland tn

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This happened to me last night at the bradley square mall. I was shopping with my family and i came in thru the belks department store, open carry. shopped in belks for a while, walked thru the mall for about 45 mins, and then i went into american eagle with my wife. some strange looks from the teenagers working there (not unusual) l left A.E. and went to the mall rest room at the other end of the mall.

The security guard was approaching fast and I knew what this was about. he said some store employees at A.Ecalled him and said they seen " a man with a gun" he then statedthe mall has a no carry policy, and I informed him that it was not posted. then I showed him a copy of TN codes concerning postings-

T.C.A. 39-17-1359states:

Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.

Said security guard called his boss and read the code (i carry a copy) to him. his boss said it was B.S. and have me removed. he then asked me to take it to my vehichle and I said no that i would conceal it, hes said as far as he was concerned that was fine. the security guard was very polite and was not showing force, ( he has a carry permit also) he stated he has made many attempts to have his boss correct the entrances concerning postings. the guard found me later and gave me and my wife a 10.00 mall gift card he said it was for harrassment from him.( he was very nice) the guard said he will continue trying to get his boss to correct the problem.

Note: the mall does have a no weapons"wording" at the main entrance only and it is in a list of rules and its the 11th rule down and in very small letters. i went and looked after the incident.

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Hmmm. I'm pretty sure if the manager asks you to leave you still need to. Otherwise you will be trespassing. I think the signs being absent only protect you from firearms charges. Correct me if I'm wrong....

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure if the manager asks you to leave you still need to. Otherwise you will be trespassing. I think the signs being absent only protect you from firearms charges. Correct me if I'm wrong....

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the manager was not present at the time and if asked to leave I would have. I just refused to go put my weapon in my vehichle, having said that if he asked me to leave I would have but we came to an agreement on concealment.

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Overall sounds like things went fairly well. Nice to see a security guard that has some sense as well.

I also like the idea of having statutes etc.. handy to give to those who may question things. I haven't OC'd that much, but when/if I do on a regular basis I will have a few items myself.

Oh...and just to let you know. The statute about the signs is actually T.C.A. 39-17-1359 not 39-17-1360(Has since correct post)

Also here is AG opinion 07-43 about property owner's posting signs.

Not that it was in question, buthere is AGopinon 05-154 thatOC is legal.

Just remember if asked to leave (which you weren't) you must leave or it trespassing and if told to conceal instead of OC (which you were and did) you must do as they request according to AG opinon 07-148

Andhere is a link to a letter generatorto sent tobanning/posted business' on the T.F.A.'s website.

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thanks fall guy,

I have made the corrections on the post. the actual paper I had at the mall was correct. thanks for the link on the letter genorator.

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No Problem!!

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A question Fallguy...does it have to be the owner of the property who tells you to vacate the property, or can it be an agent of the owner (in other words a manager of the property)? I am curious as this incident took place in a mall and I doubt the actual property owner told the person who was OCing to leave.

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What the law says is, the owner or by someone with apparent authority to act for the owner.

Here is the trespass law T.C.A. 39-14-405

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Thanks for the clarification.

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Old Hickory Mall here in Jackson, TN is just as bad, even worse. I was the Security Director there for a year after working as a guard for four years. I knew policy said no guns allowed but I just asked the customer to conceal it like the guy you spoke with. In fact, my mall is so gung-ho that the new Director actually forced a police Captain to leave the mall as her reason was that he was not in uniform!!! I heard she had her ass chewed pretty good she hasn't given up on harassing the legally armed citizens.

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I have just started carrying should I expect this ?

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Where are you from Jack?

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fullauto223cal wrote:

Old Hickory Mall here in Jackson, TN is just as bad, even worse. I was the Security Director there for a year after working as a guard for four years. I knew policy said no guns allowed but I just asked the customer to conceal it like the guy you spoke with. In fact, my mall is so gung-ho that the Director actually forced a police Captain to leave the mall as her reason was that he was not in uniform!!! I heard she had her ass chewed pretty good she hasn't given up on harassing the legally armed citizens.

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Just another reason I haven't been there years and won't go anytime that I know of.

jack wrote:

I have just started carrying should I expect this ?

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Nah...not always and everywhere, but you should be ready for it when you are in the places that do.

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I really can't see security being able to order off duty cops out of a mall for being armed. Ask to see a badge and that should be it. Even then though why ?

What if someone had been armed when that kid walked into that mall a few weeks ago.

What if no one was armed at all at the recent church shooting. Supposedly that young man carried 1000 rounds with him and had more guns in his car. That could have been even worse.

If you ask me these anti-gunners, security types, some cops are putting the general public at greater risk by opposing everyday carry.

I never carried ever but with all these crazy types shooting up the place, what choice does a guy have but to protect himself and his family.A fewmonths ago I started carrying my Sig 226 everywhere even on planes. I got a lockable case for it and the check in people just ask if it unloaded. Once I'm at my rental car my sig is on the seat or on my hip (unless it's illegal there). I wish I had found this site before spending $45 on books that explaingun laws. I always check local laws as I travel weekly.

Just now it came across the news a guy upset about hisbill shot the manager and a customer at a Hooters in Tenn. People actually think there should be no one armed in there ? Everyone one of those girls should be carrying, especially when they walk out at night. Maybe if there was a shotgun hanging over the managers desk that customer wouldn't be dead.

Now all we can do is pray for their families. This just makes me very angry.

Be safe everyone and carry an extra clip

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fullauto223cal wrote:

Where are you from Jack?

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Clayton, NC

Although I'm a road warrior now in the new job and spend most of my time traveling to customer sites.We like to say we are underpaid road slaves.Hopefully I will get my old job back when the economy settles down. It's been a rough year and the travel is no longer fun.

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^^JACK - The thing is that new director thought that the cop had to be in uniform. The cop she kicked out was a Captain with JPD over violent crimes and doesn't wear a uniform. Like I said, she brought some serious shit down on the Mall for that little slip up.

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Huh? Unless the officer was conducting an official investigation, I don't see why he has any more rights to be there than anyone else.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

Huh? Unless the officer was conducting an official investigation, I don't see why he has any more rights to be there than anyone else.

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Agreed! I have asked the question about whether the UT off-duty cop who was carrying in the mall which was posted gun-free got into any trouble. If you are an off-duty cop, you are no better than the rest of us and should have no different rights than a non-LEO.

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C-ya wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

Huh? Unless the officer was conducting an official investigation, I don't see why he has any more rights to be there than anyone else.

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Agreed! I have asked the question about whether the UT off-duty cop who was carrying in the mall which was posted gun-free got into any trouble. If you are an off-duty cop, you are no better than the rest of us and should have no different rights than a non-LEO.

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Here in Cleveland, the cops are considered on duty 24/7. Our local sheriff is ex-secret service and he is all gung-ho. so when off duty and carrying concealed they are immune to the civilian do not carry laws.