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Thread: Why you should carry in a zoo

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/26/tiger.attack/

    Investigators probe killer tiger's escape at zoo

    SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN)[/b] -- Investigators on Wednesday will try to determine how a Siberian tiger escaped from her enclosure at the San Francisco Zoo the day before, killing one zoo visitor and mauling two others.




    Emergency personnel carry a San Francisco Zoo visitor attacked by an escaped tiger away on a stretcher.

    Authorities planned a thorough sweep of the grounds to look for clues they may have missed in the dark Tuesday evening, according to The Associated Press.

    Police shot and killed the tiger, San Francisco Fire Department Lt. Mindy Talmadge said. The surviving victims were transported to San Francisco General Hospital, she said.

    Dr. Eric Isaacs said the two injured men, ages 19 and 23, were in serious but stable condition with multiple lacerations.

    "I believe there was probably some blood loss at the zoo, but here they are talking, they are alert, their vital signs are stable at this time," Isaacs said

    He said that both could be released as early as Wednesday. Watch as the tiger's victims are rushed to the hospital »

    Talmadge said authorities were notified of an escaped tiger about 15 minutes after the 78-year-old zoo's 5 p.m. PT closing time.

    "Apparently right around closing time -- there was a pen with four tigers in it -- one of the tigers got out," Talmadge said. "The tiger went into a cafe at the zoo and attacked a patron. That person ended up dying at the scene."

    Police arrived as the animal attacked two other patrons, Talmadge said.
    "They shot the tiger, and the tiger is deceased," she said.

    Talmadge said the 125-acre zoo was locked down and all the facility's other animals were accounted for, including three other tigers that had been in the same enclosure with the escaped animal.

    Initially, officials feared some or all of the other tigers might have escaped but later determined they had not, Talmadge said.

    The tiger that escaped, a 300-pound female named Tatiana, did not escape through an open door, Robert Jenkins, the zoo's director of animal care and conservation, told the AP.

    Jenkins could not explain how the tiger got out, since the enclosure has a 15-foot moat and 20-foot walls, the AP reported.

    "There was no way out through the door," Jenkins told the AP. "The animal appears to have climbed or otherwise leapt out of the enclosure."

    The San Francisco Chronicle reported the tiger was the same animal that chewed the flesh off a keeper's arm in an attack last December during a public feeding demonstration.


    California's Division of Occupational Safety and Health later determined that the zoo was at fault because of hazardous conditions in the Lion House, which houses the zoo's large cats, and lack of specialized safety training for employees, according to the Chronicle. The Lion House was closed for more than six months after the mauling, the paper reported, and the zoo made changes that the state safety division ordered.

    Along with Siberian tigers, an endangered species, the zoo has rarer and smaller Sumatran tigers.

    This is the story you show to someone if they ever give you a hard time for carrying in a zoo, where "there are tons of kids, and someone could get hurt if there was an accident". Well, there was, and not with a gun jumping out of a holster.


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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tragic event at the San Francisco Zoo. Tiger gets loose and attacks unarmed zoo patrons.

    I say bring the long gunsto the zoo. Better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have one.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I watched this video on CNN and this was the statement from Jack Hannah when speaking of a recent tiger attack...

    http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/....on.attack.cnn

    I quote, "...a wild animal is like a loaded gun, it can go off at any time..."

    Like any negligent discharge, there is normally an action or inaction of someone for the gun to discharge. Just like the tiger killing someone in this case, it just didn't happen there was something that led up to the tiger killing the person. The tiger like a firearm is inherently dangerous, thus you should handle them both with care. Also,people have control of a firearm but we cannot control an animal, any animal. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it...

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    eyesopened wrote:
    I quote, "...a wild animal is like a loaded gun, it can go off at any time..."
    NO!



    A loaded gun is like a paw, or a tooth or a claw, but IT IS NOT LIKE A WILD ANIMAL.

    It is a tool like any other tool used for a purpose.

    I would NEVER have a wild animal in my home, but I have had loaded guns in my home for years and years and one has NEVER gone off and hurt anything or any one.

    Tarzan

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    eyesopened wrote:
    Maybe I'm just reading too much into it...
    No, you're not. Statements like this perpetuate a myth that firearms are responsible for deaths. This is similar to Rush Limbaugh's SUV tirades about reports of dangerous gas guzzling SUV's roaming the countryside killing innocent motorists and passersby.

    A gun cannot set itself off or target a victim- It is an inanimate object. It's no different than a rock or a stick until someone picks it up.

    A tiger on the other hand, is a living breathing thing, endowed with instinct and self-determination and clawsand teeth. It is completely different than a loaded gun in every respect.
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    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    eyesopened wrote:
    I watched this video on CNN and this was the statement from Jack Hannah when speaking of a recent tiger attack...I quote, "...a wild animal is like a loaded gun, it can go off at any time..."
    And to think I paid good money to go to the Columbus Zoo... Jack; a wild tiger is not predictable. A gun is. I can set a gun on a table and leave it there for 100 years, and unless someone touches it, it's never going to attack!



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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I don't think Hannah means it that way. But the problem is it will be perceived that way. Most people that don't know anything about guns believe guns accidentally go off all by them selves. Guns don't do anything without human intervention. Just like my car, I can push on the gas peddle all I want, but, it won't go anywhere until I put it in drive.

    If Hannah said an animinal is like a loaded gun, if you provoke it, it can go off. This would be closer to the truth.

    I would prefer Hannah not to use such comparison.

    Send him an email at Ohio Columbus zoo.

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    You may be onto something. At a zoo are you more likely to be attacked by a wild animal than a wild human? The odds are low for either but not absolute. Be prepared for anything.

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    It got out same time last year and hurt people then.

    Somehow got over the water, up the wall,and over the fence!!!


    If you need to carry a long gun to the zoo... I suggest you stay home or take the high bus motor tour.

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    I always carry At least .357 to the zoo



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    I wonder exactly how the police response happened. Did they use a shotgun, or the standard-issue plinking handguns they usually carry? For the animal's sake, I'd hope it was the former.


    To turn it around, this might be a good story for the stopping power arguments. Sure, if you need to defend yourself against a person, 9mm might be sufficient. But a large animal? Think again...

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    Zookeepers had to wait for the police to arrive? Why didn't they have effective animal control on site? Isn't this all too much like unarmed security guards at malls, sporting events, parades, etc., etc. ?

    It has long been my philosophy that I'd rather carry it and not need it than need it and have to wait for some authority figure to finish his donut and then bring it. "When seconds count the police are only minutes away." Fortunately only three casualties occurred this time.

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    In one report they said that the zoo did have control measures on site (don't know exactly what they meant but I assume a gun) but failed to use it in all the chaos. Nothing like keeping your gun in your holster while watching someone get shot.

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    This tiger is just like a criminal, she knew her victims were unarmed and attacked. And ultimately a gun was needed to stop her.

    But seriously, that sucks.

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    PT111 wrote:
    In one report they said that the zoo did have control measures on site (don't know exactly what they meant but I assume a gun) but failed to use it in all the chaos. Nothing like keeping your gun in your holster while watching someone get shot.
    Being Christmas and the end of the day, maybe the firearms qualified personnel were on vacation. This article says the zoo has "a response team that can shoot animals."

    EDIT FOR CLARITY: Maybe the team only has tranquilizer guns. How long would it take to a tranquilizer to incapacitate the tiger?
    ---

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Has anyone else heard that the officers who arrived on scene found the tiger next to one of the victims, and they yelled at the tiger and did not shoot until the tiger turned towards them? Maybe I'm missing something, but don't you shoot a tiger standing of a person who has already been mauled, rather than yelling first?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    It got out same time last year and hurt people then.

    Somehow got over the water, up the wall,and over the fence!!!


    If you need to carry a long gun to the zoo... I suggest you stay home or take the high bus motor tour.
    How do we know when we will "need" a long gun?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    dngreer wrote:
    Has anyone else heard that the officers who arrived on scene found the tiger next to one of the victims, and they yelled at the tiger and did not shoot until the tiger turned towards them? Maybe I'm missing something, but don't you shoot a tiger standing of a person who has already been mauled, rather than yelling first?
    If true, I suspect the officers didn't want to further injure the victim with their misplaced or overpenetrating shots.
    ---

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    dngreer wrote:
    Has anyone else heard that the officers who arrived on scene found the tiger next to one of the victims, and they yelled at the tiger and did not shoot until the tiger turned towards them? Maybe I'm missing something, but don't you shoot a tiger standing of a person who has already been mauled, rather than yelling first?
    They had to wait until the Tiger made a threatening move towards them. That way they won't get sued by the ACLUfor misuse of deadly force. Maybe they should have Tased it first, or used pepper spray. How about calling in the hostage negotiator.

    Who knows, if the Tiger was just sitting there, maybe the Tiger was sorry for what it had done and was ready to turn itself in and throw itself on the mercy of the court,after all it had been traumatized by beingheld captive against it's will.



    As soon as they had a clear head shot....BOOM, dead Tiger.

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