Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Response to 'rockblaster's beliefs about open carry.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    rockblaster wrote:
    I realize that what you are all doing is an experiment to exercise your second amendment rights. However, there are many LE profesionals that may see you with a firearm and consider you a danger to themselves and a threat to unarmed citizens. With that in mind they will probably draw their weapons and put you on the ground. You will then retain an attorney and even if you are in the right it will cost you thousands of dollars to prove it. I believe there are 57 district attorneys in the state of Kallifonia and all will interprite the law differently. This mimmics the off list lower crowd of which I am one. The other problem is the reasoning for actually carrying a firearm on a daily basis which is self defense. An unloaded weapon is as useless in a gunfight as a pearl neckless. Yes I carried for 10 years without authorization but it was necessary. I was a licensed blaster and carried up to 2000 lbs of explosives to blast sights from my magazines but was unable to secure a gun permit. I got my yearly explosives permit from Fresno County Sheriff internal affairs dept., the same dept. that would issue a gun permit. When Sheriff Pierce took over they actually called me to ask if I still wanted a CCW. If you carry concealed and do it right no one would know any more than if you were carrying a wallet. Carrying open invites a well organized criminal to disarm you as well as beat you with your own weapon after he slips it out of your holster. The reason for carry is to defend your life. In order to do this you should be formally trained ( Gunsite, Thunder ranch, DF Training, etc) and then practice constantly. Most gunfights are over in a couple of seconds. I do not mean to insult any of you but I go through three day training courses every couple of months and this is what I am taught. If we are not able to engage a target at the sound of the timer from hands at our sides at 5 yards in 1.2 seconds we get drilled until we can. We are drilled in all 3 types of malmunctions and timed for these as well. I am very serious about the responsibility of carrying a firearm.
    [T]here are many LE profesionals [sic]that may see you with a firearm and consider you a danger to themselves and a threat to unarmed citizens. With that in mind they will probably draw their weapons and put you on the ground.

    That is a possibility. Butyour 'probability'has not been proven in excersize. In both recorded events of police interaction, neither myself or the other participant was held at gunpoint. Neither of us was thrown to the ground as a 'felony' stop. In both cases we were detained briefly and released still in possession of our firearms.

    It seems to me, that police are far more concerned with hidden weapons and furtive movement that ones carried openly in a belt holster. I think that they can deduce that most criminals really dont want to be noticed, and would secret their weapon away in their waistband- not carry it in plain view in an appropriate holster.

    Carrying open invites a well organized criminal to disarm you as well as beat you with your own weapon after he slips it out of your holster.

    Well organized criminal? I think you meant opportunistic criminal... as 'organized' criminals dont really need my weapon, they already have their own. If you review our accounts of how we carry, you will note that none of us is very casual about our surroundings. Personally, I take a great deal of caution about who approaches me and where I position myself. Additionally, I carry my weapon in a level three retention holster- had you reviewed my contact with local police, you would have known that even with instruction, the officer took several tries to remove my weapon from my holster.

    In order to do this you should be formally trained ( Gunsite, Thunder ranch, DF Training, etc) and then practice constantly.

    And what? Get a piece of paper that says you're competent to defend yourself with a firearm? Im not knocking training and practice, but youre telling me that Ihave a choice betweenbeing formally trained to defend my life or wait for someone qualified to come to my rescue. I reject that choice out of hand- because my inherent right to self-defense does not come with a competency stipulation.

    Tell me- if your home or workplace caught fire and you had access to a fire extinguisher or fire hose would you wait for someone qualified to come put out the fire, because you werent 'certified'?

    I believe anyone who can carry, should- lest they sit around and watch their 'house' burn to the ground, waiting for the cavalry.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Maryville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    407

    Post imported post

    In order to do this you should be formally trained ( Gunsite, Thunder ranch, DF Training, etc) and then practice constantly.
    I take strong exception to this part, not everyone can afford expensive training such as is mentioned above. This doesn't negate your right to carry. I think if you can definitely get training it will give you an advantage. I agree with the above poster everyone that can should carry.

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,350

    Post imported post

    In order to do this you should be formally trained ( Gunsite, Thunder ranch, DF Training, etc) and then practice constantly.


    Here's a question for ya. Why is it that you can earn college credit for taking a fencing class, or learning how to wield medevial weapons, but as far as I know there's no classes for properly utilizing firearms for self defense? Children should be taught how to defend themselves from the day that they're allowed out of your sight, and they should be taught to use firearms as soon as they can understand not to point them in the wrong direction.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Maryville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    407

    Post imported post

    DreQo wrote:
    In order to do this you should be formally trained ( Gunsite, Thunder ranch, DF Training, etc) and then practice constantly.


    Here's a question for ya. Why is it that you can earn college credit for taking a fencing class, or learning how to wield medevial weapons, but as far as I know there's no classes for properly utilizing firearms for self defense? Children should be taught how to defend themselves from the day that they're allowed out of your site, and they should be taught to use firearms as soon as they can understand not to point them in the wrong direction.
    I couldn't agree with you more. It would be nice if at the very least the schools would teach kids how to be safe around firearms, for the parents that won't do it themselves. I intend to teach my son and daughter about protecting themselves and about firearms as soon as they are old enough.

  5. #5
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    Funny, I saw no mention of "Thundar Ranch in the 2nd Amendment...

    I'm a staunch advocate of professional training. I think everyone that carries a gun regularly seriously consider saving the $ and attend serious training. There is so much to learn and a lot of it isn't even about the "gun".

    That said, I repeat:
    I see no mention of "Thundar Ranch" in the 2nd Amendment

    This rockblaster is a bit out of touch with reality.

  6. #6
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    This rockblaster is a bit out of touch with reality.
    Playing devil's advocate, I'm certain he believes the same of us.

    It strains credulity that any person in their right mind would walk around anywhere in the State of California with an unloaded firearm on their hip. It is certainly impossible to carry a firearm in an exposed fashion without drawing the attention of police. And when police are summoned, a Californian would certainly expect someone open carrying a firearm in public, to be proned outat gunpoint by angry policemen, who think it's their duty to disarm them for their own good. And if the police dont get you, the criminals will cetainly kill you with your own gun.

    The disparity between his reality and mine is that I laid it on the line to prove that none of the above was even remotely accurate.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,238

    Post imported post

    I do have to make my own comment about this situation, and in response to Rockblaster:

    Not everyone lives in a county where they can get a permit. Concealed carry, whether it be loaded or unloaded is ILLEGAL and if you're an unlucky sap who doesn't want to commute 100 miles each way to work, it's your only option.

    Why don't the people bashing open carriers be actually useful and start pushing for concealed carry reform in California where it's shall issue?

    There would be a lot less pushing for unloaded open carry if the people of California had more choices.

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    Thank you for making this a new thread.

    ConditionThree already posted most of what I would have said. I will add that Rockblaster presents some conflicting ideas. Cops will be ignorant of the law and will treat any visible firearms as loaded and a danger to their person; criminals will be savvy to the law and assume the gun is unloaded and not a danger to their person. I think the opposite is much more likely to be true.

    As for the 'realm of possibility' arguments, consider this:

    If you CC, your permit is a matter of public record. A criminal, being ultra-savvy of the law may submit a FOIA request and get your home address. Knowing you're carrying concealed he gets the drop on you by having his gun out before you can dig yours out of your wasteband. He shoots you and takes your gun.

    The bottom line is this: CC is not a practical option for me. I am not willing to beg for permission, and I am not willing to risk the government telling me I no longer have the right to own a gun. OC is the only practical option. It also serves the purpose of waking up some of the sheeple. Even if it did put me at greater risk - which I don't believe - I would consider it my contribution to making the world a better place.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    There would be a lot less pushing for unloaded open carry if the people of California had more choices.
    Don't forget loaded OC in unincorporated areas where the County has not banned OC (by way of making discharge explicitly unlawful in the County)!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •