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The American Gestapo

Jim675

Jim675

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While in the Army I was first stationed in Korea in 1985 in a small village well south of Seoul. I was speaking with a local as we walked toward our apartments when we saw two policeman beating / kicking a guy on the ground in an alley. My friend hurried me along and said "Don't get involved because their punishing a criminal." I said "How do you know he's a criminal?". She said "Because they're beating him".

Something just reminded me of this incident.
 
S

smccomas

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Just like you guys all LOVE to say "we are all equal". The law doesn't change for a soldier coming back from Iraq.
Click to expand...


That's right! A soldier should have to take a beat down from the Gestapojust like any other "good patriotic American!" Why should he demand the right to be free? What, just because he fought for this country?!

Oh, nitrovic, my government-apologist friend, what "law" exactly are you talking about that doesn't change for Iraq vets? What "law" exactly was broken here??

Fact: he was not arrested for anything (meaning conclusively that he did not do anything against the law or the officer would've arrested him, especially if he was angry enough to break 3 of his ribs).

Fact: he was not a threat as shown on the video and by the fact that the officer did not arrest him.

Fact: he was not fighting back as shown on the video
Click to expand...

You do know what the real "Gestapo" was right?

I don't know what he was charged with, I'm sure it was along the lines of some disturbance or disorderly conduct code section (he himself admitted to being angry and cursing). Your "facts" are just opinions. The video isn't clear and doesnt have sound to show your "facts".
Click to expand...
Actually he wasnt charged with anything Its in one of the follow videos.

There is even a partial recording, The SGT refers to the officer several times as sir.

Yeah guess he got what was coming
 
N

nitrovic

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ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Just like you guys all LOVE to say "we are all equal". The law doesn't change for a soldier coming back from Iraq.
Click to expand...


That's right! A soldier should have to take a beat down from the Gestapojust like any other "good patriotic American!" Why should he demand the right to be free? What, just because he fought for this country?!

Oh, nitrovic, my government-apologist friend, what "law" exactly are you talking about that doesn't change for Iraq vets? What "law" exactly was broken here??

Fact: he was not arrested for anything (meaning conclusively that he did not do anything against the law or the officer would've arrested him, especially if he was angry enough to break 3 of his ribs).

Fact: he was not a threat as shown on the video and by the fact that the officer did not arrest him.

Fact: he was not fighting back as shown on the video
Click to expand...

You do know what the real "Gestapo" was right?

I don't know what he was charged with, I'm sure it was along the lines of some disturbance or disorderly conduct code section (he himself admitted to being angry and cursing). Your "facts" are just opinions. The video isn't clear and doesnt have sound to show your "facts".
Click to expand...

So you don't know what laws, if any, he broke. You just know that he had to be in the wrong because to assume otherwise would mean you would have to -gasp- assume your beloved government might have done something wrong.

If you don't know what laws he broke or even if he broke any, again I ask, what laws are you taking about that should be "equally" applied to this man?
Click to expand...
You were the one who stated ,"They just beat him up and skipped off". He even admitted to being in the wrong while cursing and yelling. BTW, it wasn't a "TSA Agent", it was a metro police officer.
 
Huck

Huck

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nitrovic wrote:


"First- the report was obviously biased against the cops (no shocker there)."

So if 2 civilians did the same thing to someone no one would think badly of them?

"Second- He wasn't "tasered as he lay bleeding". He was first tasered while he was standing, hence the "crippling effects of the taser" per the biased report."

I'm not clear on that part so no comment, for now.

"Third- The Army Sgt. was obviously pissed off (you can see that by his pointed finger and arm movement in the video). The only thing we see is a grainy video of the officer trying to grab at the Sgt to which he pulls away. Then the officer starts swinging with a baton. The Army Sgt. is still up and moving. Then the next officer tasers the guy. That's it. But now you say they are the "Gestapo"? Wow, way to see the whole story."

Sergeant England had every right to be pissed off, who would'nt have been? And last I heard pointing a finger and pulling away when grabbed are not aggressive acts and therefore use of force by anybody is not justifiable.

So tell me Nitrovic, how can anyone, not just a cop, justify a beating with a batonthat broke 3 ribs followed by a tasing just for pointing a finger and pulling away when grabbed?

I have no problem with LEOs using force when it's necessary, like when a person is combative, but from what I saw on the video Sgt. England wasnot combative. Angry yes, but that's not a legitimate excuse for what happened.
 
S

smccomas

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Just like you guys all LOVE to say "we are all equal". The law doesn't change for a soldier coming back from Iraq.
Click to expand...


That's right! A soldier should have to take a beat down from the Gestapojust like any other "good patriotic American!" Why should he demand the right to be free? What, just because he fought for this country?!

Oh, nitrovic, my government-apologist friend, what "law" exactly are you talking about that doesn't change for Iraq vets? What "law" exactly was broken here??

Fact: he was not arrested for anything (meaning conclusively that he did not do anything against the law or the officer would've arrested him, especially if he was angry enough to break 3 of his ribs).

Fact: he was not a threat as shown on the video and by the fact that the officer did not arrest him.

Fact: he was not fighting back as shown on the video
Click to expand...

You do know what the real "Gestapo" was right?

I don't know what he was charged with, I'm sure it was along the lines of some disturbance or disorderly conduct code section (he himself admitted to being angry and cursing). Your "facts" are just opinions. The video isn't clear and doesnt have sound to show your "facts".
Click to expand...

So you don't know what laws, if any, he broke. You just know that he had to be in the wrong because to assume otherwise would mean you would have to -gasp- assume your beloved government might have done something wrong.

If you don't know what laws he broke or even if he broke any, again I ask, what laws are you taking about that should be "equally" applied to this man?
Click to expand...
You were the one who stated ,"They just beat him up and skipped off". He even admitted to being in the wrong while cursing and yelling. That is called disorderly conduct, not tough to prove that one.
Click to expand...
So thats enough to justify a beat down?
 
S

smccomas

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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Huck wrote:
nitrovic wrote:


"First- the report was obviously biased against the cops (no shocker there)."

So if 2 civilians did the same thing to someone no one would think badly of them?

"Second- He wasn't "tasered as he lay bleeding". He was first tasered while he was standing, hence the "crippling effects of the taser" per the biased report."

I'm not clear on that part so no comment, for now.

"Third- The Army Sgt. was obviously pissed off (you can see that by his pointed finger and arm movement in the video). The only thing we see is a grainy video of the officer trying to grab at the Sgt to which he pulls away. Then the officer starts swinging with a baton. The Army Sgt. is still up and moving. Then the next officer tasers the guy. That's it. But now you say they are the "Gestapo"? Wow, way to see the whole story."

Sergeant England had every right to be pissed off, who would'nt have been? And last I heard pointing a finger and pulling away when grabbed are not aggressive acts and therefore use of force by anybody is not justifiable.

So tell me Nitrovic, how can anyone, not just a cop, justify a beating with a batonthat broke 3 ribs followed by a tasing just for pointing a finger and pulling away when grabbed?

I have no problem with LEOs using force when it's necessary, like when a person is combative, but from what I saw on the video Sgt. England wasnot combative. Angry yes, but that's not a legitimate excuse for what happened.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQb7Aw2utRk&feature=related

This is the segment where we here the SGT refering to the officer as sir. Sounds irritated not combative or agressive.
 
S

sjhipple

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Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
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Concord, New Hampshire, USA
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nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
ama-gi wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Just like you guys all LOVE to say "we are all equal". The law doesn't change for a soldier coming back from Iraq.
Click to expand...


That's right! A soldier should have to take a beat down from the Gestapojust like any other "good patriotic American!" Why should he demand the right to be free? What, just because he fought for this country?!

Oh, nitrovic, my government-apologist friend, what "law" exactly are you talking about that doesn't change for Iraq vets? What "law" exactly was broken here??

Fact: he was not arrested for anything (meaning conclusively that he did not do anything against the law or the officer would've arrested him, especially if he was angry enough to break 3 of his ribs).

Fact: he was not a threat as shown on the video and by the fact that the officer did not arrest him.

Fact: he was not fighting back as shown on the video
Click to expand...

You do know what the real "Gestapo" was right?

I don't know what he was charged with, I'm sure it was along the lines of some disturbance or disorderly conduct code section (he himself admitted to being angry and cursing). Your "facts" are just opinions. The video isn't clear and doesnt have sound to show your "facts".
Click to expand...

So you don't know what laws, if any, he broke. You just know that he had to be in the wrong because to assume otherwise would mean you would have to -gasp- assume your beloved government might have done something wrong.

If you don't know what laws he broke or even if he broke any, again I ask, what laws are you taking about that should be "equally" applied to this man?
Click to expand...
You were the one who stated ,"They just beat him up and skipped off". He even admitted to being in the wrong while cursing and yelling. BTW, it wasn't a "TSA Agent", it was a metro police officer.
Click to expand...


Where on the video did it say he was yelling? (hint: nowhere). Also, please point to the statute # that criminalizes cursing...and then please point to the section of that statute that sets the penalty at a beating and tasing without a court hearing or arrest.

It's amusing how hard your grasping at straws here to put the victim at fault. "He broke the law." Which one? "oh...errr...he was swearing."

Yes, they did just beat him and skip off. You implied that he deserved it by saying that he should have the law applied "equally" to him...well, what law is being equally applied? What law did he break? The only answer I can come up with is "contempt of cop."
 
Thundar

Thundar

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
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This just seems wrong. Batons and tasers directed at a US Army Sargeant, that did not commit any overt hostile act. (I watched three times, the only hostility came from others.)

Funny thing is, I remember when the National Guard was providing security at our airports after 911. I felt muchsafer then than I do now. 3 broken ribs and multiple tasings. Within policy.

I don't have all the facts, but the abuse here is apparent. My real disgust is for the administration that legitimizes this thuggish behavior. The community and the police are all harmed by the lack of oversight.
 
BobCav

BobCav

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Folks, this incessant ranting and trolling of nitrovic is plainly evident by his antagonist posts that he then edits and deletes. He is simply stirring the pot and trolling.

I recommend that he be summarily ignored as he has nothing to give to OCDO and only spreads blatant lies about what he posts and what others have said. He does NOT like OCDO and only comes here to antagonize and provoke anti-LEO posts on other Police forums. Please Google "nitrovic" and read them for yourself. Only takes 10 minutes at best.
 
BobCav

BobCav

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nitrovic wrote:
BobCav wrote:
Folks, this incessant ranting and trolling of nitrovic is plainly evident by his antagonist posts that he then edits and deletes. He is simply stirring the pot and trolling.

I recommend that he be summarily ignored as he has nothing to give to OCDO and only spreads blatant lies about what he posts and what others have said. He does NOT like OCDO and only comes here to antagonize and provoke anti-LEO posts on other Police forums. Please Google "nitrovic" and read them for yourself.
Click to expand...


I only delete my posts because of people like you Bob. I don't want to have someobody e-stalk me and threaten to post my personal information if I don't agree with them (sound familiar Bob, like what you did to me). You are a sick person and it's appauling you are a moderator behaving the way you do.

And why on this "opencarry" site is the police brought up in a negative way time and time again? I was told "it's only a few people" yet when YOU are the moderator I now know why it is accepted. Thankfully this site has other mods who actually do their jobs and don't bring their personal feelings into it.Go to any "police" forum and see the truth on what police officers feel about gun carrying citizens. Contrary to what you and others on here believe, the government is not your enemy. And no, the police are not the "gestapo" (I can't believe I actually have to post that). Look at the title of this thread. I don't see you saying how the poster is a "troll" or here to post anti-police rhetoric (which he does).


BTW Bob, it works both ways. We can google your user name and see the results as well. And shockingly an anti-police remark pops up in a blog, gee, who would have thunk? Maybe opencarry.org should do a better backround on the "moderators" they get...
Click to expand...
I know everything that's out there about me because I put it all up there and check it frequently.

Please post that link for all to read!Ihavecriticized police when they do wrong, as does and should everyone, but that's the exception, not the rule and doesn't make me a LEO-Basher. All to easy to label and criticize.

Here's an interesting post:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10049&forum_id=60&jump_to=162022#p162022
 
Jim675

Jim675

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nitrovic wrote:
BobCav wrote:And why on this "opencarry" site is the police brought up in a negative way time and time again
Click to expand...
Because there are many thousands of LEOs in this country and every one of them is human(ish). Which means a certain percentage are occasionally wrong, and a smaller percentage of them are often wrong. And when LEOs are wrong the consequences are more costly then when a programmer is wrong.
Take off the blue glasses and try to see the other side Nitro. Stuff happens.
 
BobCav

BobCav

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Jim675 wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
BobCav wrote:And why on this "opencarry" site is the police brought up in a negative way time and time again
Click to expand...
Because there are many thousands of LEOs in this country and every one of them is human(ish). Which means a certain percentage are occasionally wrong, and a smaller percentage of them are often wrong. And when LEOs are wrong the consequences are more costly then when a programmer is wrong.
Take off the blue glasses and try to see the other side Nitro. Stuff happens
Click to expand...
As we've said time and time again, OpenCarry attracts LEO's that either don't know the law or ignore the law. Is it really that hard to figure out?
 
Nelson_Muntz

Nelson_Muntz

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Vic, I owe those LEOs in the video an apology. I should never have said anything bad about them when they gave that soldier, not charged with a crime, a beatdown.

I promise to be the first to jump to the LEOs defense when they drag you off camera and give you a beatdown for nothing. Good luck with that.
 
D

Doug Huffman

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BobCav wrote:
Jim675 wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
BobCav wrote:And why on this "opencarry" site is the police brought up in a negative way time and time again
Click to expand...
Because there are many thousands of LEOs in this country and every one of them is human(ish). Which means a certain percentage are occasionally wrong, and a smaller percentage of them are often wrong. And when LEOs are wrong the consequences are more costly then when a programmer is wrong.
Take off the blue glasses and try to see the other side Nitro. Stuff happens
Click to expand...
As we've said time and time again, OpenCarry attracts LEO's that either don't know the law or ignore the law. Is it really that hard to figure out?
Click to expand...
I wonder if it would be too much to ask that they keep their cherished personal information to themselves as immaterial to good citizenship and disruptive.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA LEO FOAD
 
T

Tomahawk

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nitrovic wrote:
BobCav wrote:
Folks, this incessant ranting and trolling of nitrovic is plainly evident by his antagonist posts that he then edits and deletes. He is simply stirring the pot and trolling.

I recommend that he be summarily ignored as he has nothing to give to OCDO and only spreads blatant lies about what he posts and what others have said. He does NOT like OCDO and only comes here to antagonize and provoke anti-LEO posts on other Police forums. Please Google "nitrovic" and read them for yourself.
Click to expand...


I only delete my posts because of people like you Bob. I don't want to have someobody e-stalk me and threaten to post my personal information if I don't agree with them (sound familiar Bob, like what you did to me). You are a sick person and it's appauling you are a moderator behaving the way you do.

And why on this "opencarry" site is the police brought up in a negative way time and time again? I was told "it's only a few people" yet when YOU are the moderator I now know why it is accepted. Thankfully this site has other mods who actually do their jobs and don't bring their personal feelings into it.Go to any "police" forum and see the truth on what police officers feel about gun carrying citizens. Contrary to what you and others on here believe, the government is not your enemy. And no, the police are not the "gestapo" (I can't believe I actually have to post that). Look at the title of this thread. I don't see you saying how the poster is a "troll" or here to post anti-police rhetoric (which he does).


BTW Bob, it works both ways. We can google your user name and see the results as well. And shockingly an anti-police remark pops up in a blog, gee, who would have thunk? Maybe opencarry.org should do a better backround on the "moderators" they get...
Click to expand...

You delete your posts before more than like 3 people even gets to read them. You leave them up just long enought to stir the crap, and then you whsk them off, because, let me get this straight, you're afraid of being e-stalked? Are you serious?

Here's a word of advice, if e-stalking is a problem: maybe use a different username than you've used elsewhere on the internet.
 
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