Perfect CCW law wish list.

:shock:Law Enforcement - a Chief or Sheriff (I assume who is elected) is part of the Executive Branch of Alabama's state government and can "make up rules"?
Crazy huh?....but they do it. Sheriff is elected, Chief hired by muni.

Wow, there is a lot that I do not understand in the above thread but I do know that this doesn't make one iota of sense to me at all.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. I've lived in the same county for 40 of my 49 years and I still don't understand how it got so screwed up.

Total preemption = totally consistant laws and application therof for everybody.
We understand that concept...LEOs don't seem to though.

Good luck with your efforts to get things straighten out there.
I'm open to any ideas you have that won't result in rocks/dirt/pavement in my mouth :what:

Yata hey

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Ok guys, what are we going to have to do to change things here in Alabama and get everyone on the same page? What are we goning tohave to do to make it ok to open carry here in Alabama without being thrown in jail??? Is there a State of Alabama gun owners association? If not why don`t we all ban together and get one started? All this talk is getting us no where, lets get together and make it happen! :cuss::cuss::cuss:

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Well, Alabama's laws are pretty darn good as is, the only big things are:

FOLLOW THE ALABAMA CONSTITUTION:
That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. - This article is enumerated in ALL 6 Alabama constitutions.

This enumeration of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people: and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, or any transgression of any of the high powers herein delegated, we declare, that every thing in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate; and that all laws contrary thereto, or to the following provisions, shall be void.- This article is enumerated in ALL 6 Alabama constitutions.

Without that....

1) Remove 13a-11-52 from the code.
Ageed...
2) Repeal the prohibition of carry near or participating in a demonstration (violated the 2nd and 1st amendments of the US constitution.)
Agreed....I would also add that PL required to carry in vehicle be repealed.
3) Change may issue to shall issue.
Agreed....
4) Require a real background check and require training.
The only reason I want a real background check and training is
so more states will honor the permit-FOR CC ONLY, keep OC legal without permit.
Law already requires a "real" BGC to new applicants but no training....I don't like the idea of "forced" training as it would drive up the cost of having a PL by whatever amount the "trainer" sees fit. I could maybe see a one time "qualification" type thing to insure safety, but not a "forced" 8-10 hr class type thing that might cost as much as a gun purchase.....just my .02


Without all that, I would be satisfied with LEO education.
That would be a great start.....

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kingfish wrote:

4) Require a real background check and require training.
The only reason I want a real background check and training is
so more states will honor the permit-FOR CC ONLY, keep OC legal without permit.
Law already requires a "real" BGC to new applicants but no training....I don't like the idea of "forced" training as it would drive up the cost of having a PL by whatever amount the "trainer" sees fit. I could maybe see a one time "qualification" type thing to insure safety, but not a "forced" 8-10 hr class type thing that might cost as much as a gun purchase.....just my .02


Without all that, I would be satisfied with LEO education.
That would be a great start.....

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We tried to organize a meeting some time ago for this sort of thing. We had about, oh, two people interested

I'm not very good at all of this 'organization startup' type stuff though.

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Here is the exact reason I believe a group would have to have some sort of minimum membership that agrees on the core principles before I'd try and change anything. We would need a consensus from a large group so we were sure we acurately represented the majority of Alabama firearms owners.
This is a very good point....any suggestions/thoughts as to a minimum number?

I actually agree with Kingfish. I would like to see training so we could expand reciprocity. However where do you draw the line. We could expand reciprocity by maintaining a 24hr accessible data base of all current CCL holders.
I may have used the wrong word when I said qualification.....I was thinking more a basic safety type thing that could be done in 2-4 hrs at most and cost, say, $50 or less.
As for a "data base"....I, for one, am opposed to any sort of "central list" that may be compromised in some way...I would also not like to see fingerprinting required.

There is a guy here in town that has started a range and is offering self defense training that would probably meet the requirements. He only charges $150 for an eight hour class.
This would put a PL at $170 (in my nome county) and too expensive for a good number of people...and IMHO, would/could turn some against an organization that would otherwise support our efforts.

I like the idea of a qualification from a promotion of marksmanship standpoint. Problem is that the government should not be able to deny a persons basic rights on the basis of their physical ability. Also if you have a qualification for CCW then your only one short step from requiring a qualification for OC.
If our State Constitution and ALSUPCO opinions are followed, there cannot be regulation of both CC and OC.....one has to remain "untouched".

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loudone wrote

Here is the exact reason I believe a group would have to have some sort of minimum membership that agrees on the core principles before I'd try and change anything. We would need a consensus from a large group so we were sure we acurately represented the majority of Alabama firearms owners.
This is a very good point....any suggestions/thoughts as to a minimum number?

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Thetarget membership should probably be based on 2 things.Firstwe shouldlook at some sort of % of active RKBA participants. Second we should find a number that would be convincing toelected officials.

I actually agree with Kingfish. I would like to see training so we could expand reciprocity. However where do you draw the line. We could expand reciprocity by maintaining a 24hr accessible data base of all current CCL holders.
I may have used the wrong word when I said qualification.....I was thinking more a basic safety type thing that could be done in 2-4 hrs at most and cost, say, $50 or less.
As for a "data base"....I, for one, am opposed to any sort of "central list" that may be compromised in some way...I would also not like to see fingerprinting required.

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I was only attempting to site an example of potential differences in what RKBA exercisers may call an improvement.

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There is a guy here in town that has started a range and is offering self defense training that would probably meet the requirements. He only charges $150 for an eight hour class.
This would put a PL at $170 (in my nome county) and too expensive for a good number of people...and IMHO, would/could turn some against an organization that would otherwise support our efforts.

I like the idea of a qualification from a promotion of marksmanship standpoint. Problem is that the government should not be able to deny a persons basic rights on the basis of their physical ability. Also if you have a qualification for CCW then your only one short step from requiring a qualification for OC.
If our State Constitution and ALSUPCO opinions are followed, there cannot be regulation of both CC and OC.....one has to remain "untouched".

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My real point is this can't be a half way effort. When westart talking about changeing laws other people will take notice and may not have the same changes in mind. I could see a slick anti- make the argument if you need to be qualified for one type of carry why not another.

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We also don't want to "bite off more than we can chew" either....keep our goals attainable as it were.

I think we should stay away from adding ANY new restrictions...period....why help the antis?
IMHO, we need to focus on "educating" LE on the legality of OC as a first step

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.....try to get sec. 52

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and the requirement fot PL for vehicle carry repealed/changed...

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Agreed. It's tough to know where to start in Alabama with the LE education. If we could get a group together with enough members, I think the best way to start would be to send letters to ALL the sheriffs in the state informing them of the legality of the OC, and asking what the consequences are for individuals in their county for licensees and non-licensees alike. If they reply in the negative, we go to the papers. This would be the best first step as far as I can see.

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Agreed. It's tough to know where to start in Alabama with the LE education. If we could get a group together with enough members, I think the best way to start would be to send letters to ALL the sheriffs in the state informing them of the legality of the OC, and asking what the consequences are for individuals in their county for licensees and non-licensees alike. If they reply in the negative, we go to the papers. This would be the best first step as far as I can see.

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Now we are getting somewhere. Lets come together and get step 1 in motion. Someone with their ducks in a row needs to lead the way andget it started and let the rest of us know what we need to do. vmathis, loudone, comp-tech, kingfish, kurtmax, who will lead this and when do we start?

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vmathis12019 wrote:

Agreed. It's tough to know where to start in Alabama with the LE education. If we could get a group together with enough members, I think the best way to start would be to send letters to ALL the sheriffs in the state informing them of the legality of the OC, and asking what the consequences are for individuals in their county for licensees and non-licensees alike. If they reply in the negative, we go to the papers. This would be the best first step as far as I can see.

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Sounds like a good start....I had thought about sending something to the Alabama Sheriffs Association with the request that it be forwarded to all members...
As for "my" county, the response to OC would be similar to what you experienced:banghead:

As for letters to each sheriff etc., that sounds like a plan that might actually get some attention....what say ye other Bama residents?
I suppose the first step is to build a membership then?

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Comp-tech wrote:

vmathis12019 wrote:

Agreed. It's tough to know where to start in Alabama with the LE education. If we could get a group together with enough members, I think the best way to start would be to send letters to ALL the sheriffs in the state informing them of the legality of the OC, and asking what the consequences are for individuals in their county for licensees and non-licensees alike. If they reply in the negative, we go to the papers. This would be the best first step as far as I can see.

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Sounds like a good start....I had thought about sending something to the Alabama Sheriffs Association with the request that it be forwarded to all members...
As for "my" county, the response to OC would be similar to what you experienced:banghead: ( Ok then, can someone draft a suitable letter with all the ammo needed and post it here so all of us can start sending them out to all the county sheriffs dept`s and should we also send letters to the police depts.? Let`s not let this dry up and die. We all need to come together somehow and make this happen. I have lots of stamps and a post office down the street. The letters do shound like the place to start. And if anyone in Alabama is tight with any board members here at OC.org, maybe they can give advice to us on first steps to get things underway. Let us all commit ourselfs to making this happen or to at least try. Like vmathes said if we get negative replys then we can go to the newspapers. Karl )

As for letters to each sheriff etc., that sounds like a plan that might actually get some attention....what say ye other Bama residents?
I suppose the first step is to build a membership then?

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There is a member on the site who has generated training bulletins and had them distributed to local LE. I do not remember who it was. You may want to look in the Discussion Forum.Rules of Engagement>Law Library. There are 2 examples that might help you get a training info sheet started. 1 is for VA and the other is for PA.

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