Very sorry to read of your loss. Our prayers are with you and your loved ones.
I just returned from my brother's funeral (where practically the entire local police force was in attendance) and I found yet another email asking me about the rabid anti-LEO direction that OCDO seems to be taking lately. I am emotionally drained and exhausted, so if I sound like I am lecturing then I apologize, but I need for you guys to consider the following.
OCDO is a forum solely dedicated to supporting open carry and gun rights in general. It is not an anti-LEO board! In the last month, I have been asked several times about the direction the forum has taken in this direction.
Because open carry, by its very definition, involves exercising our rights in a very visibile manner, this often leads to encounters with law enforcement. Because there are many law enforcement officers who do not fully understand their state and local gun laws, these are not always perfect encounters.
However ... the way we are seen as a movement is based upon how professionally we deal with these "not so perfect" encounters. I can say without fear of contradiction that Mike and I and the entire OCDO community as well as the gun rights groups of your state will support you if you have such an experience. But to speak of resisting "improper arrest/detention" with deadly force is ludicrous and provides ammunition (no pun intended) for those who wish to portray us as extremists.
I do not wish for us to be marginalized as just another group of internet wackos!!! There are plenty of those and their voices are not heard in the halls of power. I want us to be known as a thoughtful group who can be counted upon to support gun rights and one another at every turn.
I have several points I want to make and then I will climb down from my angry soapbox and go to bed.
1) Most LEO's are honorable men and women who are willing to place their very lives on the line for their communities.
2) Many LEO's are pro-gun
3) There are those who are either ill-informed or intentionally make life difficult for gun owners.
4) When you encounter one of these, the time to address the issue is after the encounter has been safely concluded. Comply with all demands even if you feel they are unlawful.
5) Document the encounter as completely as possible including video taping or voice recording the event if your local wiretapping laws allow this, writing down every detail as soon as possible and always get names, badge numbers and business cards.
6) File FOIA requests
7) File a compaint
8) If necessary, organize a group to attend the city council/county board of supervisors meeting to ask for action.
9) Expecting a perfect world is fine but being willing to help make an imperfect world better one step at a time is what real activists do! The guys from the Tony's 7 event never got a public apology, but by following the steps above, they made Manassas just a little better for the next generation of open carriers!
10) I find it very beneficial to be able to get a LEO perspective from the LEO's who are members here. Feel free to disagree with them on any point of fact or opinion, but our rules are clear ... no personal attacks on anyone!
I hope that no one feels I am directing this at them personally because I am not. I just want us all to think a little before we post even if we feel strongly about an injustice we have just read about.
Now I am going to go off and lay me down to bleed for awhile (metaphorically speaking).
Very sorry to read of your loss. Our prayers are with you and your loved ones.
Sorry to hear about your loss.And thanks for the forum you and Mike have given us.
Sorry for your loss, and I agree 100% with your post.
I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I would like to think your brother had a good albeit short life. Remember, he's in a better place now. Remember, the good times. Remember, and he will live on!
Sorry to hear of your loss.....may your heart find peace and comfort.
I agree with your thoughts about OCDO and the LE profession .....I will do my best "think before I speak"....as we all should.
Superbly put. Might I add that it always helps to post about your GOOD law enforcement encounters on here, as well. I've ran into some some fine young gentleman in uniform recently who deserved commending, so I mentioned it on the forum.
May your brother rest peacefully.
I never know what to say at times such as this, so let me simply say I am very sorry about your loss.
Please see my PM.
John, My condolences to you and yours.
I could not agree more. Most of us, myself included,have had or know someone who has had, a bad encounter with LEO, for one reason or another. I still refuse to believe that any more than a very small percentage of LEO's are not doing that job for all the right reasons, and moreover, even though I do not always respect the person wearing the badge, I have only the highest regard for the badge itself.
Many talk about certain cops being "badge heavy", and certainly, some were not cut out to wear it, but damnit, that badge IS heavy, and those who are dedicated to bearing it's weight righteously for his fellow man deserves all the help carrying it he can get. That includes doing all we can, within LEGAL and REASONABLE methods, to rid the good cop of any bad cops within the profession, for the good cop does not deserve the derision often given him due to a bad cops actions.
My family offers it's condolences to yours for your loss, John.
I am sorry for your loss. Your message was from the heart and very well put.
I too am very sorry for your loss. And I too agree with your statements above.
I agree that as pro gun folks have to act as mature and professional as possible, especially when armed.Attacking LEOson the internetor actingfoolish in public while open carryinghurts all of us who cherish our gun rights andonly givesthe gun control groupsand suuporters reasonsfor anti gun laws.As you knowmost pro gun open carriersare honest,law abiding citizens whoenjoyexercising theirrights.
John, You and your family have my families heartfelt condolences in your time of sorrow. As long as he is in your memories, he is with you. Never forget. Also, please pass along our Thanks for his helping to make society safer.
You have my heartfelt condolances for your loss.
I agree that the purpose of this board is to promote political activism and education in order to change the system peacefully. It is not to envoke/endorse violent opposition to LEO's who may just be ignorant of the law.
Please accept my sincerest condolences upon your sad loss , Sir,and we thank you for your much needed,sage counsel.
Honestly, I feel bad that it NEEDS to be said...
Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.
My condolences. A little 'true life' does tend to get us down from our rhetorical high horses. Thank you.
In deepest sympathy,
My sympathies, Sir.
Sorry for your loss and thanks for saying what needed to be said.
longwatch wrote:Thank you all for your kind words!! This wasn't the way I envisioned bringing in the new year, but we do not get to choose the moments of loss and tragedy in our lives.Sorry for your loss and thanks for saying what needed to be said.
I couldn't ask for a better group of friends!!
And thanks for understanding where I was coming from with the post itself. We have got to stay on message here. Our success as a political force depends upon it!
Thank you all again!
I offer my condolensces as well. My little brother passed away 3 years ago so I well undertsand the grief and loss.
And thank you for this forum and your reminder of it's purpose.
Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."
Sorry for your loss. Thanks for your good words.
My deepest sympathies as well. I hope you are doing well. You are right about LEO's I do not think we need to bash them as a species. I'm not above singling a bad individual out, but I find 99.9% of LEO's are good people, just misinformed. My policy is to end a stop quickly and painlessly and then raise heck with their superiors. It's a lot easier to file a complaint than argue with someone when you can't win.
I to am sorry to hear of your loss.
Your words were inspirationally true!
A great friend and a 16 year veteran of the police force,gave his life to save mine.
Respect given is respect received!